it wont start!

[Anonymous]

I am trying to start my 67 coupe I just bought. I am spraying starter fluid directly in the carb and not getting anything. I pulled a plug and it has spark- it looks weak to me, but I am used to seeing electronic ign, not points.

I pulled the distributor cap and watchend the points. Is there supposed to be sparks between them, or would that indicate a problem with a condensor-if so how would I test that?

Other than possible weak spark, Shouldn't ether+compression+spark=bang?

 

[johnnyzoom]

Lots of things it could be and I'm sure others will post, but are spark plug wires corresponding with distributor? Points and spark plugs gapped correctly? Is fuel making it to the carb?

 

[fordconvert]

Im not an expert but I would think if you are getting spark(s) that things are more or less working as far as points coil and such. There may be issues like dwell but you should get something. The condensor just has to do with wear on the points and RF noise unless its shorted. If it was shorted you would not be getting sparks so a this point those are not your biggest problems. You may have issues there but it should at least 'pop' at this point.

Have you pulled all the plugs? Maybe some of them are fouled up? I just bought a 66 and the points were sticking open sometimes but then you would not be getting a spark at all.... hmmm...... If you are putting starting fluid and or gas in the carb the plugs (especially 3&4) should be getting 'wet' if they are not firing. Mabe there are some critters built up in the manifold? If you put your hand tight over the top of the carb and crank it (ignition disabled just in case) do you feel some suck?

Did it 'run fine when it was parked'? OR maybe the timing chain skipped and thats why it was parked? maybe it doesnt have hardend seats and the valves are shot? Maybe time for a compression test? Its easy to do and you can get a cheap test set for around $30 last time I looked.

Battery cables? Including the ground to the block? How do the connections look on the solinoid? Mine were loose and burnt on the battery side. Is there 2 small connections on yours? The one close to the battery is the one from the key for 'start' the second little one is to send 'full' voltage to the coil for alittle extra kick when starting.

Maybe a couple of shots of oil in the spark plug holes to try and seal the rings better and crank it a few times before you put the plugs back in?

Good Luck!

TJ H
StPaul/Mpls MN USA

 

[Mercury Mike]

Pull all of the plugs. Do a compression test. Check the gap on plugs and points in distributor (0.025 on plugs and 0.035 points?). Verify timing! Make sure that you're at TDC. Do a good tune up. Change the oil soon too! Check tranny fluid as well. It's better to be safe now then sorry later. Make sure that every plug is getting spark, and that the wires on the dizzy are in the right order. 153624 it's right there on the manifold! After you do the compression test, write down the numbers next to a date. Keep that paper somewhere you won't lose it, it will give you a reference to health next time you do a CT. Once timing is verified, points in plugs and gap are good, you check to make sure that fuel is pumping into the carb, then she should start right up! Also, have a timing light handy after that to get your timing right where you want it after your balancer is marked on a sure TDC. Might want to change the plugs just for the fact of changing them. You're not backfiring out of the carburetor or anything right? Just crank and crank and no start? Make sure that you've got a good connection on your battery cables as well...

I think that's everything I can think of, plus it's pretty late, let us know what's going on!

 

[Anonymous]

Not much I can add to what's already been said but sometimes trouble shooting is a process of elimination so take a look at the following and make sure that you can eliminate them as the cause of your problems:

What's the condition of your distributor cap and rotor and what's the gap on your points and plugs? How about your choke is that working? Have you measured the resistance on your wires?

 

[Anonymous]

under best conditions there is no visible spark at the points while turning. Sparking at the points can indicate several things.
1--points need cleaning, regapping/ replacing, .017 gap at points
2--condenser bad- a bad condenser will cause hard starting-the condenser to the points is a crucial part of a good spark. Points are simply a dead short of the ignition system and the condenser acts as a storage area for the excess juice keeping the points from burning up. the plugs fire when the points open and untill then the condenser is absorbing the current flow.
A weak yellow spark often will not fire a cold engine. Several possible reasons such as above plus low battery,bad wires, rotor, cap,coil,worn or badly gapped plugs, .035
My method of assessing would be to pull clean and gap plugs, replace condenser, service points, rotor, cap, charge battery fully. Try to assess condition of plug wires, if rubber is dry and cracked or metal in end corroded -replace. Then try cranking.

 

[Anonymous]

Heres what I have tried already...
new battery cable-it was bad
new ground cable- it too was bad
new spark plugs- some ok, some filthy <didn't check gap, just installed em
pulled cap and rotor-looks ok same with points

When I got the car, the previous owner mentioned that they put in new points. I do know that I need a new battery. Right now I am jumping it with my Crown vic ex-Police car- its got alot of juice 8)

Would compression be much of an issue with ether? I would think that stuff would fire no matter what. I just want to get it to pop off a few times to eliminate spark as a problem, then its carb time.

 

[johnnyzoom]

If your battery cables are bad I don't know that I'd trust that ignition coil, my understanding is they gradually go bad (was in situation like yours last year and replacement made big difference). If you're electronically inclinded I'd suggest putting a meter on it (search this site for details on how to) or drop $32, under $30 for the coil, and 2 bucks for a spark plug gapper (plugs out of the box rarely match or are correct), gotta keep eliminating simple variables, like others have said. Establishing correct TDC is integral and doesn't cost anything.

How long had the car been sitting?

Good luck- Johnny

 

[Anonymous]

Heres what I have tried already...
new battery cable-it was bad
new ground cable- it too was bad
new spark plugs- some ok, some filthy <didn't check gap, just installed em
pulled cap and rotor-looks ok same with points

When I got the car, the previous owner mentioned that they put in new points. I do know that I need a new battery. Right now I am jumping it with my Crown vic ex-Police car- its got alot of juice 8)

Would compression be much of an issue with ether? I would think that stuff would fire no matter what. I just want to get it to pop off a few times to eliminate spark as a problem, then its carb time.

Until you actually measure the point gap you can't eliminate it as the source of your problems. Do you have a timing light and a volt/ohm meter?

 

[fordconvert]

Good thought on the plug gap. Maybe someone just put plugs in 'out of the box'. The ones that came in my car were over 50 once I scraped off the crud. The new ones I bought (autolite) were between 45 and 50 out of the box. I assume that since the same plug was used into the 80's that the factory gap was supposed to be for the Duraspark systems. I have heard with a points system the wider the gap is the more critical the dwell matches. Mine would pop but not start till I cleaned the crud off and narrowed the gap to 35. After that and a new set of points and a carb kit it would more or less run.

At this stage you may have a combination of issues, -10% compression,-10%spark plug gap,-10%plug condition,-10%dwell,-10%wire condition.... and so on Right there you are at 50% of a system that was 50% the quality of what we are used to today.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER HANDY! Your carb most likely leaks and who knows what else.

Also I would get a good battery in the car. If you have 'average' quality jumper cables you are probally well under 9 volts when cranking and it gets lower the hotter they get. Even with 'premium' cables (easily cost $75-100) you are well under 12 volts under load. If there is a bad battery in the mix also it will take some of the power away. I thought mine cranked normal when I was first messing with it but after the new cables and such it more than doubled in cranking speed. Mine (which appears to be stock) seems to be one of the faster craking engines I have worked with.

As I mentioned earlier, are the at least some of the plugs gettting 'wet'? If they are not after a bunch of cranking you are not getting fuel to the cylinders. 3&4 (middle ones) seem to get wet first. I have seen intakes and carbs plugged with all kinds of stuff from various creatures.