Long read regarding gouges on starter mount flange..flywheel

[Anonymous]

If it’s not one thing…it’s another….Sort of a long read…but here goes.
I have a 1966 Mustang Convertible Inline 6. Great car lots of fun, but of course the usual constant tinkering…

Recently car has been hesitating and performing poorly. Odd since it had a new Holley remanufactured carb and used to run great. I think the timing mark on the dampner may have shifted. As I check that religiously when it acts up. I would set it at 10 to 12 degrees BTDC. In any case, I got a new autolite 1100 from Pony Carbs. Nice people, real helpful. Actually called with a question and spoke to Jon Enyeart the owner. Definitely knowledgeable with regard to Mustang engines.

So I changed out the carb, reset the timing the way he recommends which is turn thr distributor counter clockwise until it pings under load, then retard a “smidgenâ€￾ until the pinging no longer occurs under heavy load. Car now runs and accelerates great. Like a new car. But (always a but), almost as the last bolt goes in…the starter starts to act up. Story of my life…so I check the battery and starter solenoid and they’re both okay. It is the starter I’m sure. Take it to local parts store, put it on their bench and it is bad.

Now the strange part…I had the clutch replaced in May. After the replacement the car had a minor vibration at around 1500 rpm. Was not there before the replacement of the clutch. Was not the transmission as it would correspond to engine rev with the clutch down. So I suspect the guy who did the work may have not properly balanced the flywheel when he reworked it. Odd as all he works on are Mustangs. He says “ hey I can’t chase down every vibration…I’d never get any work done.â€￾ Last time he’ll see my wallet. (Pony Express in Beltsville MD)

So I pull the starter…and see wear marks on the starter housing that would indicate the flywheel (or some part of it) may have been rubbing up against it (more like gouging it out). When I put the new carb on, the vibrations pretty much went away, so I had suspected maybe one cylinder was running lean or not getting enough fuel/air, etc from the bad carb…so now confused as to what caused the vibration. Will be replacing the starter tomorrow. Could the gouge marks have been from a worn clutch?

The link below is the starter and opening into the bell housing showing the flywheel. I can’t see any places that could have caused the wear that I’m seeing on the starter housing. I looked at the service manual and I don’t see anything that would stick out on the front side of the flywheel that could cause those huge wear marks in the housing….

http://www.geocities.com/sgozzo1/starter.jpg.jpg (yes jpg twice)
http://www.geocities.com/sgozzo1/ picture of the starter mounting opening

Anyone have any ideas???


Thanks,
Steve-O
Annapolis, MD

 

[Anonymous]

I've only seen that happen when the crank would walk and on an auto.

Do this: with the starter off turn the engine over by hand and look at the flywheel as it makes a full turn. The bolt holes for the pressure plate and sometimes the dowel pins go through the flywheel. Maybe the guy that did your clutch used a pressure plate bolt that was too long?

 

[MustangSix]

There are two possibilities that come to mind.

First, you need to do a check for crank end play.

There is a thrust bearing on the center main that controls fore and aft movement of the crank. normally this is only a few thousanths of an inch.

If the bearing begins to wear it allows the crank to move forward under load, i.e. when you push the clutch. Move too far and the flywheel can contact the starter or the block plate.

You should use a dial indicator to check it, but you can get a visual if the movement is signifcant. Place the car in neutral, set the brake, and take a 2x4 or something else to push the crankshaft back at the damper. Then get someone to push the clutch while you watch. If the thrust bearing is bad, you'll see the crank move forward. A dial indicator set up on the balancer can tell yo how much, but it should be no more than .010-.015" at most.

The bad news is that if the thrust is way off, at the very least you will have to drop the pan and replace the bearing. If the crank is also worn, it will mean crank replacement.

The second possibility, and one that might be more plausible, is that the flywheel is installed improperly. If it somehow got cocked or was bent, the edge could eat the starter. It would also account for the vibration.

To check for that, a dial indicator would also be good, but again, observation may tell. Pull the starter then observe the flywheel as someone turns the engine by hand. It should run true, but if I'm right you will see it wobble toward the starter opening.

If it does, you will have to pull the tranny, clutch assembly, and flywheel to determine why it is out of whack.

Good luck!

 

[Anonymous]

My thanks to all who replied. I found one pressure bolt was too long...all the rest were fine. Could this have caused the minor vibration as well???
Do you think I can get this bolt out and replace with the correct one through the small starter opening?

Or do you think the "licensed mustang repair shop" that did this repair replacing the clutch should do it for me...I'd have to foot the towing bill of course????

I will try putting the picture in below. If it does not work the two links below show you what I found.

http://www.geocities.com/sgozzo1/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/sgozzo1/flywheel_bolt3.jpg
Cheers,
Steve-O


http://www.geocities.com/sgozzo1/in...eocities.com/sgozzo1/flywheel_bolt3.jpg[/img]

 

[Anonymous]

If you can't get it out through there maybe it could be cut off, a dremel would work wonderful for that.

 

[Anonymous]

You could probably get it off and a new one on with a box-end crowsfoot... I'd talk to the guy - technically he's responsible for making it right.

 

[Anonymous]

I bought a Dremell tool for $35 and it worked fantastic. I masked off the are and ground off the protruding part of the bolt in about 5 minutes. Had my CO2 extinguisher at hand just in case. Also masked off the carb to be safe. All good now.
Wow.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm going to see how it acts this afternoon when I start 'er up.
Cheers,
Steve-O