More spring & retainer questions

[dmsmith55]

For my 200 with E0 head, stock reground valves, I ordered and got some retainers from a Ford parts online store, part# E6TZ-6A536-A. These are for the pushrod 4.0L V6 that they made thru 2000. I believe these are the ones suggested my David & Dennis in the book, although their part# was printed as E6TZ-64536-A. Too close not to be right.
Anywho, those retainers are completely flat on top and the valve stem only sticks out about 0.040" using the 200 locks. The stem only sticks out a little more with a stock 200 retainer. Also, the new 4.0 retainers are thinner and have a higher profile giving more space for the spring, or a taller installed height. It is 1.706 on the first one I checked. My 67 Ford Shop Manual has 289 springs spec'ed at 1.66 closed. I could get close to that with shims. I figure the 302 spec was same or close. The springs then check out at about 75lbs at 1.656 (1 21/32) and 180 at 1.218 (1 7/32), which would be close to the open point with my cam. Also plenty of room till coil bind, about 0.125". BTW, Comp Cams said the Ford 302 71-73 springs will work just fine with their 260 cam.

Those of you who have used this retainer, have you had any problems with rocker arms contacting the retainer or locks??? Have my valves been ground and their stem tops machined too much?? It is scary to see the top of the valve stem almost flush with the retainer. I don't have all my parts yet to do a fit-up and see for myself if OK.
I was a Chevy man in a past life, so I am used to seeing a little more valve stem sticking up thru the lock/retainer.

 

[thinman56]

hey, what's the right thing to use for shims on valve springs? i looked through some posts and at the handbook, it talks about shimming springs but no reference about what to use. i'd like to try a 0.030" shim to see if it has an effect on rpm limit.

thanks....

 

[addo]

They're hardened shims of differing diameters, just for shimming valve springs. One of those parts engine rebuilders get in bulk.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back dmsmith and All:

You are right! Thanks for the correction. The correct part # for the 4.0 one piece retainers is E6TZ 6A536-A. Anyone who reads this should make the correction in the Ford Six Performance Handbook on page 14.

And, yes, the 4.0 retainer sits higher on the valve with stock keepers. My valves have about .050" of stem protruding above the keeper. no clearance issues have been reported, yet. Keep us posted on your progress.

The stock OEM 200 valve spring height specifications are at 1.22" open and 1.59" closed. You should use the v8 spring specs.

The differences in height dimensions in the 4.0 retainer compared to a 2 piece 200 retainer are;
retainer lip thickess-
4.0 - .087"
200- .107"
difference of .020"

Retainer top to valve tip
4.0 - .050"
200- .140"
Difference of .090"

That's a total of .110" of additional spring height. Shims come in a variety of thicknesses with .030" and .060" being the most common.

Again, thanks for catching the typo error in the FPH.

Adios, David

 

[BaldEagleMav]

Hi to all,

I wanted to comment on this subject with my own experience - and hopefully hijack this thread to get an answer to an unrelated question:

I bought and installed these same one piece retainers on my otherwise stock 250 cu in motor. I have had no clearance issues in the approximately 1,000 miles I have driven the car since this installation.

Now my hijack: I need to rebuild my engine. It's burning a lot of oil. I am planning to install the 255 V8 pistons, deck the block to zero and maybe go with the dual pattern cam that David recommends from FSP (Classic Inlines(?)).

If I am using cheap (87 octane) California gasoline at sea level, what should my target compression ratio be?

I appreciate receiving any input anyone may have.

Regards,
BaldEagleMav

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy back:

BaldEagleMav- You might want to start your own thread on this issue. I'd be curious what other have done with getting 250s to perform.

The combo of 255 pistons, a Felpro .050" head gasket and a large chamber head will yeild over 10:1 CR. The FSPP cam will reduce cylinder pressure, but likely not enough with an automatic. The best option to reduce CR with this combo is to unshroud the combustion chamber around the valves, and to mill a "D" shaped dish into the tops of the 255 pistons. IF you can achieve chambers of 64 - 65 ccs and dish the pistons with about 7 cc volume you will Get your CR down to about 9.5:1. At sea level this will be marginally streetable with your combo. Smoothing and polishing the chambers will help reduce pre-ignition too.

With a stock cam, at sea level I'd suggest a CR of 8.7:1 for 87 octane. I think California has some other additives in gas sold there that may effect octane too.

Check out the Compression Calculator on our website. Click on my signature.

Adios, David

 

[BaldEagleMav]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the quick - and detailed - reply!

I will start a new thread - I agree, it will be interesting to see how others have approached this.

Regards,

 

[thinman56]

Dave - back to the original topic, sounds like you need to shim 0.110" just to get back to stock spring loading, then some more if you want a little stiffer when you go to the thinner keepers. i understand all the other checks aboiut coil bind, etc. The question remains, where do i go to buy the shims?

thanks.....

 

[JackFish]

The question remains, where do i go to buy the shims?

thanks.....

I think Adam suggested a trip to the local machine shop.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy back:

Scott- NO! The open and closed heights are for the 200 OEM six cylinder springs. DMsmith is using 302 exhaust valve springs. They may not need to be shimmed as much since they are already stiffer.

Thinman- any real parts house should have valve spring shims. NAPA may be your best name store bet. Your local machine shop should have a variety of diameters and thicknesses to look over for comparitive application. The shim needs a center hole large enough to fit over the valve guide boss, but small enough to stay located. The outer diameter needs to be the same as the outer edge of the springs you are using. Then thickness needs to be considered for two reasons; to get the springs to spec heights, and/or to increase the pressure.

If you shim more than stock spec heights be sure to recheck for coil bind with the valve in open position.

Adios, David

 

[thinman56]

okay, thanks everyone, sounds like actual measurements in order and then go to the parts store with dimensions as opposed to some specific part number. i'll add it to the list of the winter's projects, which is quite a list this year....

cheers