Multi port EFI?

[Anonymous]

Pondering a bit on the idea of multi-port injection on an Oz 2V head. Also pondering potential gains. It's totally apples and oranges, but I recently saw 30+ hp and ft-lb gains made in a 5.0L just by tuning the timing and injection curves.

General idea is a bank-fire set-up with 2 banks of 3 injectors. Which cylinders on which bank to be determined later. Timing would be handled via computer, with the dizzy advance locked down. This gives maximum tuneability (and complexity-*sigh*). Maybe a Mega Squirt & Mega jolt system, or some other means of computer management. Undecided.

What would be the best way to go about it on the mechanical side? I've had 2 different ideas on it-


1st- Use the stock Oz intake as my plenum, and put injector bungs in the intake manifold pointed at the intake valves.

or

2nd- Custom fab an intake with long runners (good for torque I hear) going up to a plenum box (looking similar to an Aussie X-flow EFI). It would require a plate to bolt onto the intake side of the head to house the injectors, and mounting for the runners. And some port matching. It also adds more places to develop a vacuum leak... unless I weld the runners on the injector housing and the plenum.

Throttle body would be the same for both. Mounting it would be more complicated on the Oz intake. TB mounting will be easier on the custom, since, well, it's custom, and I can fab a properly sized plate without needing to adapt it to an existing bolt pattern.

The first idea might be easier to execute, but I think the second idea might have a lot more potential. And it offers me more opportunity to mess up without ruining my only Oz intake.... If this succeeds, I doubt it will be on the first iteration.

Things at my disposal- Mill and lathe at work. Access to good welders to do my welding for me. Tubing bender that will handle up to 2.5" tubing. Delusions of grandeur.

Any thoughts on this idea? Any good books to go buy to increase my knowledge base? Am I daffed? (okay- yes- but is the idea daffed?)

Other thoughts include using this system, with a boost-refernced fuel pump, as a basis for a turbo set-up later. My hope is that I get the EFI done and quickly come back to my senses before it's too late. But the Dark Side of the Induction is strong.

--mikey

 

[MustangSix]

Things at my disposal- Mill and lathe at work. Access to good welders to do my welding for me. Tubing bender that will handle up to 2.5" tubing. Delusions of grandeur.
--mikey

All of those are requisites! Go to http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html and read what they have there. That'll keep you busy scheming for a while.

I have an SDS EM3E system that works great on the crossflow. I was lucky enough to be able to use a lot of the stock hardware. I have a non-advance distributor and the SDS controls the spark.

On a batch fire inline six you use 123 as one bank and 456 as the second. The firing order alternates back and forth between those sets of three. Actually, it really doesn't matter since most batch fire systems squirt twice per rotation anyway.

 

[CobraSix]

Most tests have confirmed that there are only small HP gains from going from full batch fire to bank fire to sequential. Today, its all about emissions, and sequential squeezes the most beside direct injection.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

Jack- Thanks for the link. That's going to take me hours & hours to filter through.

Jack & CobraSix-
With an SDS or Mega Squirt, how much effort is there between single batch, multi bank, and sequential? If it's minimal effort, then the few HP would be worth doing. If it's a PITA, then the easiest approach is best.

Part of my goal is to completely eliminate the air/fuel delivery problems and have EvenFuelDelivery<tm> to all cylinders. I figure that alone is good for some ponies. And the tunability would be nice if I can get it to a dyno. That's the far-reaching plan.

Then there's the "ooh! Shiny!" facotr of a home-fabbed EFI rig that I can show off. 8)

My hope is that with an Oz head, the right valvetrain, exhaust, & (maybe) cam, the breathing will open up enough to support mid 200's in the HP department with the EFI giving the right fuel delivery. Figure that we can get near 200+HP with 1/3 of our cylinders lean, and another 1/3 running rich. Getting that delivery problem sorted would open up more of the potential. Yes?


--mikey

 

[CobraSix]

Well, I think batch and bank can be set up the same...

But sequential requires a cam sync so it knows when to fire. Try:

www.electromotive-inc.com

Slade

 

[MustangSix]

Sequential really only makes a difference at low speeds, roughly under 3000 rpm for a six cylinder. Above that speed the system is essentially the same as a batch/bank fire because the time to squirt is so short.

the big advantage to electronic engine management is that you can control the spark and fuel based on so many different feedback points, and you can do it in real time. Outside air temp change, no problem. Relative humidity change, no problem. Altitude change, no problem. Fuel quality change, no problem.

At each load interval and rpm interval in whatever gear you choose, the computer will sense and compensate. That makes Electronic Engine Management (EEM) so much more consistent than carbs and points.

However, EEM will not necessarily make more power. A carbed system tuned to be efficient at a particular rpm and load will make the same power. 200 hp can be made on carbs as well as EEM, but the elctronic system will be better behaved throughout the rpm range.

 

[80Stang]

Anybody ever thought of multi port EFI gear to 200cid engine taken from BMW 2.8L or 3.5L inline engine? Would it work?

Those engines are found in BMW 628Csi, 635Csi and other models in 500 to 700 series.

 

[CobraSix]

I've looked at the possibility of the BMW stuff. I've also looked at the 3.8L V-6 from ford. Problem occurs that anytime you take an EFI from one car to put on another, you need to customize the fuel/air/spark curves. It can be expensive to program existing PROMs. At that point, the aftermarket EFI's don't look so bad on price.

Slade