My 200 flow project UPDATED WITH FINAL RESULTS!!! READ ME!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
A

Anonymous

Guest
I go to school at Ferris State. For one of my classes i have to do an airflow project. I decided to try and make as much flow as possible out of the stock log on a 200 head. I will look up the casting numbers but its off an 80 200 out of a Mercury Zephyr. I can only do so much per session but im going to post my results after each one HOPEFULLY with pictures of each modification. I say hopefully because i need to find my camera.

OH btw the head will be going on my 79 Mercury Zephyr when its finished in hopes i can run a 15.XX with the stock trans and rear end.

ON TO THE NUMBERS!!
ALL TEST FOLLOW THE SAME CRITERIA WHICH FOLLOWS!!
All tests performed at 25 in of water, on a Superflow 600, using a flowcom for the CFM numbers, no radius on the carb hole or the exhaust port. Temps vary slightly but the room is pretty consistant at 68deg.
The lift points may look different but anyone who knows what their doing flows with L/D ratios and not just at thousanths lift points.

STAGE 1
I simply flowed the head with a stock valve with a good 45deg seat on it.

INTAKE
LIFT....................CFM
.0859....................41.00
.1718..................68.70
.2577..................96.00
.3346..................109.3
.4295..................115.5
.5154..................118.4

EXHAUST
LIFT....................CFM
.0687....................34.1
.1375..................56.6
.2062..................76.1
.2749..................91.0
.3436..................100.8
.4123..................106.7
.4810..................108.5

STAGE 2
This was simply a 30 deg angle back cut onto the valves. I know that there is almost never any gain to doing it on the exhaust but I wanted to see how much it gained/loss.

INTAKE
LIFT....................CFM
.0859....................43.2
.1718..................78.1
.2577..................100.9
.3346..................114.9
.4295..................121.4
.5154..................123.0

EXHAUST
LIFT....................CFM
.0687....................31.5
.1375..................57.6
.2062..................78.5
.2749..................89.7
.3436..................94.3
.4123..................97.3
.4810..................98.8

As one could see a back cut angle on the intake side loses flow nowhere. at some points its up 10cfm. On the exhaust side however it only has gains in semi low lift spots. It loses flow when the valve barely opens and alot of flow when its all the way open.

I havent had time yet but im going to be doing average CFM, peak CFM, CFM gain, and potential flow. I will also start doing velocity when I begin doing port and bowl work.

Stage 3 will be a major unshrouding of the valves and polishing of the combustion chambers with a back cut intake and stock exhaust valve.

Stage 4 will be a 3 angle valve job

Stage 5 will be a 5 angle vlave job

Stage 6 will be bowl work

Stage 7 will be port work/gasket matching

Stage 8 I will make a radius entry for the carb hole and I will also make an outlet for the exhaust.

Stage 9 I plan on enlarging the carb hole and slightly porting that area.

If i get that far Stage 10 will be knocking out the freeze plugs from the log.


As i get updates (AKA work on the project) I will post the numbers up in the format i used above.

WELL what does everyone think so far?
 
have you thought of getting a spare carb (any 1bbl) and removing the throttle plate and mounting it on the head and flowing that way? see if there are any gains from a thicker spacer?
 
turbo_fairlane_200":1w3dc4ji said:
have you thought of getting a spare carb (any 1bbl) and removing the throttle plate and mounting it on the head and flowing that way? see if there are any gains from a thicker spacer?
Yes actually I have. I am going to try and get the carb and the egr spacer from my motor and mount them on. Although I would keep the throttle plate simply because in the real world you would never run without it. I want to see if the egr adds anything too.

The problem is my project timeline might not allow me to make it home and get those items, clean them, and flow them on the head.
 
This is exactly the kind of info anyone with a log needs. For instance, when looking at the flow numbers on a stock head it looks like intake lift past .3346 or .4295 is really wasted because it does very little to increase flow. That is important info when deciding on a cam.

Will you be switching back to exhaust valves that are not back cut?
 
ASMART":3n0bykwa said:
This is exactly the kind of info anyone with a log needs. For instance, when looking at the flow numbers on a stock head it looks like intake lift past .3346 or .4295 is really wasted because it does very little to increase flow. That is important info when deciding on a cam.

Will you be switching back to exhaust valves that are not back cut?

I noticed the same thing as you pointed out. Above only slightly moderate lifts the head simply cannot flow. With the size of the intake valve (I measured 1.718) there should be alot more flow so i dont feel that is the major choke point. I already have the combustion chamber unshrouding the valves some more so i will see where that takes me.

As far as the exhaust valve goes, yes all tests from here on out will be with a single 45 deg angle cut onto the exhaust valve. The slight increase at low lifts does not in my opinion come close to warrenting keeping it. I may try putting it back in when everything is done to see if it does anything but I doubt it will even then.

My actual goal is to document what you can do to a stock log head to gain flow and still retain the stock 1 barrel. I know its crazy but I would like to pop my hood and have people wonder why my cars running so well.
 
Knowing what the head will flow with the different mods will be great. If you are going to keep the stock carb, the additional head flow will not be totally going to waste. You will probably want to choose components that maximize the RPM ange of the carb. Obviously, the carb will work best at lower RPM. My guess is that the carb will "run out of gas" between 3-4000 rpm. Improved flow on the head will help make the rpm range the carb can support stronger. AT lower RPM, the head will and the carb will fill the cylinders much better than before. A short duration,low overlap, high ramp speed cam would help along with long tube headers. You may decide more compression would help. You may want to wait until you try the modified head and cam before adding compression. The reason is that the effective compression will increase since the cylinders will be filling better. Keep us posted. It should be an intersting journy.
 
Howdy Zeph and All:

Great project Zeph!!!

What intake cylinders are you using? 1 & 6 may give different flow characteristics then 3 & 4. Same with exhaust? 3 & 4 siamiezed ports or others?

I'm having trouble following your number sequenc and lift specs? Is it me?

Thanks for doing it and thanks for sharing it.

Adios, David
 
It appears that .xxxx is written x.xxx. Also, the lift listed is different between intake and exhaust but not between tests.
 
Outstanding project. Looking forward to your results.

Don't get in a rush and goof something, it's easier to take away than put back on.
 
CZLN6":3vg8ugwq said:
Great project Zeph!!!

What intake cylinders are you using? 1 & 6 may give different flow characteristics then 3 & 4. Same with exhaust? 3 & 4 siamiezed ports or others?

I'm having trouble following your number sequenc and lift specs? Is it me?

Thanks for doing it and thanks for sharing it.

Why thank you I figured it was great too!!

As far as the cylinders I am only using number 1 I figured that it was the worst flowing intake wise and the ports of 3&4 would take to much time on the exhaust side to worry about right now.

OK as far as the lifts go I did fix them. (thank you ASMART didnt notice the decimal error :oops: ) The way I achieved them is actually quite simple. What L/D stands for is Valve lift / Valve diameter. You multiply the valve size by .05,.1,.15,.2, etc. etc. I stoped at .518 and .481 because that was the highest L/D ratio i could go to before the springs and such bound up.

ASMART":3vg8ugwq said:
It appears that .xxxx is written x.xxx. Also, the lift listed is different between intake and exhaust but not between tests.
The lifts are different intake and exhaust side because the valve sizes are different hence the L/D ratios changed and different numbers. Thank you for pointing out the numbers though!!

Howard":3vg8ugwq said:
Outstanding project. Looking forward to your results.

Don't get in a rush and goof something, it's easier to take away than put back on.

Thank you sir, Im looking forward to my results too!!
I dont plan to rush too much as I belive theres enough time until my deadline but somethings may end up good enough and not perfect.


I did figure out something that would skew my results possibly but Im going to be changing what needs done tomorrow and see if it changes the results any. If it does ill be sure to go back and fix my numbers and explain why it did what it did.

Just as a little yard stick one of my friends is doing a 4.0L jeep head. Stock at only .500 lift he got 187cfm (right close to 190) so I have some catching up to do.

Thank you everyone for your kind words, more updates tomorrow after I spend a few hours in the flow lab!
 
Howdy Back:

Hey Zeph, Are you still there? I've been waiting as patiently as I can, but I had to ask. Are you still here??

Anyone know what happened to Zeph???

Adios, david
 
Zeph, great project.

I look forward to your tests after bowl modifications & especially after the installation of decent valves such as sold by Mike at FSPP.

I have seen flow tests in the past where the exhaust benifited from the back-cut, but they were done using manly proflow valves with the top edge of the exhaust valve sharp corner was rounded off to promote better flow.

Otherwise BRAVO, appreciate all the numbers from a professional flow bench.

Keep up the great work & let us forum members reap the benifits from your tests. William
 
HELLO ALL!!!

Ok I really REALLY have to apologize for not keeping up with this thread, I also have to apologize for making everyone wait longer. I did finish this project, I also found some VERY interesting things out. The problem is that here lately my personal life has taken a very bad turn, after my christmas break at school me and my fiance broke up. I have been slowly coming to terms with the issues me and my fiance had and have been very slowly coming back to my car stuff.

The reason I have to hide the results a little longer is quite simple, all of the results are on my computer at school and I currently am on spring break.

I can however as SOON as I get back post up the results and turn this thread into the tech article it should be.

Its kinda nice to see people are actually interested in my work though.
 
Hi Zeph.

I'm going to jump in here too. Now you've impressed both Falcon Six Performance authors.

One thing I think many would be interested in knowing would be How much cfm does the carb hole flow, Many want to add a one to two barrel carb adapter, but wonder if it would do any good. So if you took all of the intake valves out and flowed the carb mount inlet.... they would know!

My theory is the 1.75 hole will flow about 400 cfm... or at least enough to put a 350 cfm Holley two barrel on an adapter.

What do you think?

Also, on ALL of the heads I have ported, the MAIN piece that I work on is the casting flashing that is in the INTAKE port. Stick you index finger in an intake hole (with the valve out of course) as far as you can push it in. (It's called "bonding" - BG) You will feel a razor sharp ridge of metal anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 in high. If you look at the outside of hte head you'll see the mating line.

I've got a picture somewhere - I find, scan, and post it.

Really love the work you're doing.
Keep us informed
 
I found two pictures of the casting crap. I was expermenting with a way to have changeable manifold tops by slicing off the top of a "flat-top" log and then making a new lid to go on top. Couldn't really figure out a good sealing method.

Anyway, you can cut and paste these into photoShop for a better look

First the whle thing
OpenManifold1.jpg


Next - a pre cleaning with the casting ridge (arrowed)
OpenRidge1.jpg


And a different port and view:
OpenRidge2.jpg


Note also the casting on the OUTSIDE of the manifold log... and all around the head. That's the piece you need to remove from the INSIDE of the intake ports.

It is a real son-of-a-gun to get at these ridges through the intake vavle hole even with a flexible-shaft Dremmel and a long-shafted cutting burr.

Hope this helps your porting effort.
 
That really looks nice.
So what are you going to use as a mounting plate/block off? Like a piece of 1/2" aluminum with gasket material below?
I wonder if you could do a kind of u-bolt thing with nuts like the Offenhauser does, then drill and tap your intake and carb mounting holes. If you did that, you probably could mount 2 5200s where ever.
 
wallaka":1ah4k9cx said:
Has anybody ever Extrude honed a log? As I understand, that process seems like a good candidate.

I do not know first hand, but I've heard the cost of extrude honing might exceed the cost of one of the yet-to-be avaiable performance heads.
 
Soldmy66":sml4ftr2 said:
wallaka":sml4ftr2 said:
Has anybody ever Extrude honed a log? As I understand, that process seems like a good candidate.

I do not know first hand, but I've heard the cost of extrude honing might exceed the cost of one of the yet-to-be avaiable performance heads.

Yep, when I priced extrude hone ( several years ago that is) it was going to be close to $1000!
 
Back
Top