#%$@$ !!!! My crossflow is a 200?!?!?!?!

[Anonymous]

When I got my crossflow I requested a 250 and that is what I thought it was. Now that the engine is back and has been tanked and cleaned up, I noticed 200 stamped on the crank. It is also stamped 200 on the rods. So I guess I am going with a 200 crossflow because I have over $2500 invested at this point.

So what does this mean for me? I guess I can go with a higher rear ratio because the 200 has a higher redline.

How much can you safely take off the alloy head to raise CR? Anything else? I want to try to make the best of this but I almost put my hand through the shop wall just now. I was going with the 250 for the extra cubes. How much worse is this for me?

 

[addo]

Did you get this off Phil? What did he think it was?

Would I build an N/A 200 crossflow? No, I wouldn't in your situation. The extra weight (seeing it's the same block as a 250) compared to a regular US 200 makes the gain negative.

What to do? Save the block, caps and rods, build a long rod N/A 250 with the correct ACL pistons. That's for sure worth installing.

 

[Anonymous]

I did get the engine from Phil. It is not his fault. He is a good guy and I can see how easy it is to make this mistake, I didn't even notice myself until I had it apart. Here is the wierd thing, it says 4.1 on the valve cover. The pistons I have are new from Dave. They are 250 pistons (ACL with a 22cc dish) because that is what I thought I had at the time. The shop also zero decked the block with the new pistons and 200 rods and crank.

Is this good or bad?

 

[Anonymous]

Another thought....

Just went out to the garage again to look at my now doomed upgrade. The intake for my motor is a 1V. I never really paid attention to it because I had always planned to upgrade to a holley and aftermarket intake. I guess that should have been my first clue but I missed it.

I am starting to feel real stupid about attempting this swap. I have been adding up all the cash I have spent and it is almost 3K total. I just cannot afford to buy new pistons, grind and balance the new crank and deal with shipping..... again. I was having a hard time getting together enough $$$ to complete the project as is. Now I am faced with the reality that I will have a $4k dog on my hands with this thing if I complete it.

Sorry to vent. Wife doesnt want to hear it and there is no one around who will understand. If anyone has suggestions please post them. Thanks

Not a good day.......

 

[addo]

Even the 250s from that year ran a single hole intake. That's no giveaway.

I might grumble for a moment about the machine shop. They should have picked up on the discrepancy between what they had, and what you said. It's why there are contractors, and subcontractors... And I always brief people in writing.

If it's an honest mistake, I'm now calling on Phil to rectify it at his actual cost, you paying, to equal the original point of delivery; eg another set of rods and a 250 crank delivered. This shouldn't be too much. If he's shipping ex-Sydney, I may be able to find something he can send but it wouldn't be for a fortnight.

If it's going to run, and you have the parts to install it and the machine work is finished, then do it. It's a rebuilt 200 - what's so bad about that? Compared to throttle linkage, trans issues and the rest, a crank/rod swap later won't be mega-hassles. Sure, it may not haul like a 250 but it will start, run reliably and be fairly economical.

Oh, and I'm sure your wife does care. She's just taking the "Tough Love" line.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Addo

I have been racking my brain and checking the board all afternoon Jacks crossflow page said the the US 250 crank can be used if a sling is milled off so I got to thinking......

What happens if I replace the 200 crank with a OZ or US 250 crank and keep the 200 rods and acl pistons that I have? I assume the deck height will change. (keep in mind that the block was zero decked with 200 rods and crank installed).

How does a 200 crossflow rate in terms of HP? Compared with a US 200 or 250? or a US 200 with a 2V head?

I was thinking of doing a turbo or Mustangaroo style supercharger next winter. Is the 200 better suited to this then the 250?

 

[addo]

There's so much seawrap spouted about forced induction, I'll pretty much gloss over the topic.

Only thoughts there, are to look at FullBoost cars, and see what the quicker Oz Fords are actually running. Most people are happy to share their details but note that Australians do get a rise out of leading on Americans. If it sounds improbable, they're probably feeding you a line.

Also, I just can't quote HP. Per pound of GVW is really the critical point; being that the crossflow block is heavier. Spinning a larger flexplate/flywheel and balancer than the small 200s, the motor will feel smoother as it powers up, although this can translate as a sense of less "urgency" in power delivery.

I thought there was a bearing running surface mismatch issue which prevented the US crank from being a slot-in fit. You may need to downsize the balancer area.

The deck height calcs for a crank swap are best done by you. Nobody else has your parts for measuring; every resize and regrind is marginally different. Allow 5 thou (max) for rod stretch and try not to go out of the bore by too much! You should be pretty close with 250 rods and either origin 250 crank.

 

[Anonymous]

Got it!

Keep in mind that in addition to the crank and rods I also need a C4 bell, 2V intake and headers would be nice. Since Phil has complete 4.1 engines in stock I will see if we can work something out for a 2nd motor if it has all of the above. This would get me out of the jam I am in and get me the bits I need to finish. Also have some used spare bits to put on the shelf.

we'll see what happens

 

[Anonymous]

Spyke, You get almost double the compression increase per each .010" of machining by working toward 'Zero- Deck Height' on the block. This inproves the quench area, helping to hold off pre-detonation.

 

[xctasy]

Rain check time. Excuse the tonality here.

1. You don't have an option of turboing the engine.

2. You can't cost effectively match the US 250 crank to the Aussie 250 block without having another budget blow-out.

3. Your margins are too tight already since you don't have the Aussie trans in order.

4. Without a good 250 crank and 5.88 rods the only cheap option is getting the HSC 2.3 pistons from the same supplier as Mustangaroo's son Jason, and make do with what you have. I calculated 9.17:1 with 16 thou deck register and 200 I6 6.5 cc pistons. Chances are the compression may be close to being too high with HSC pistons on 89 octane, and it may be a 93 octane machine.

5. The badder news:

A zero decked 200 is a 7.5:1 compresion plodder with 250 pistons. It's only use is for a solid base as a turbo coversion. Purely by accident or by a moments negligence by the handlers, you have been sold substandard goods, and it ruins any chance of making it anything near as good as a x-flow 250. It's only good point is its smoothness and rev range, which you will love.

6. The good news:

If a little kid asks for a pice of bread, you don't expect to get stones!

Anyone who sells a 200 when you wanted a 250 is under an obligation to make good. You must, for the sake of your good name, persue the matter and talk as a gentleman with Phil. You need a 3.91" crank with the right flange, and the right Aussie or US 250 5.88" rods. Phil is a great guy, and its certain anything that can go wrong will go wrong with engine swaps. He may feel that it is a clear case of buyer be ware.

I'm certain the follwing statement is pretty hardcore. Anyone with a clear platic tie and Bic pen can check stroke of a X-flow block.

7. I have currently saved a boatload of cash from the guys here. I'm making an adaptor for a Texan, a turbo exhast and induction for a person from Andrews Airforce Base, and if Phil isn't able to get a crank, then I can pitch in. I have a vested interest in getting engines like this working, and it is especially so if there is an unforseen budget blowout. Been there, done that, you see.

If there is any issue with getting another crank and rods from Phil, contact me.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks

I PM'd Phil to let him know what is going on. If I don't hear from him by tonight, I will call him on the phone.

Another bad thing here is the fact that the old crank (200) was turned and balanced. So the bearings I got from Dave are oversize. The rods cost me $35 each to be balanced, shotpeened and pressed onto the pistons.

My hope would be to get a crank that is ready to go and good rods. That way I could use US rod bearings and Dave could get me a set of main bearings pretty quick. This car is my driver except in the winter so I would like to have it back on the road by april or may.

 

[alloydave]

Spyke , let me know what bearings and size you need and i get them under way .

Cheers Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dave I will but I need to get the crank first to see ifI will need oversize or not.

IT KEEPS GETTING WORSE

When I picked up the block and crank on Sat, I dropped off the Alloy Head. I asked the shop guy to clean up the head and magnflux it for me. Today he called me to tell me that it has at least 5 hairline cracks. He then pressure tested it (not sure exactly how thats done ) and said 2 of the cracks leak. :x :x :x :x

I am completely at a loss for words right now.

 

[Anonymous]

Good news. I got a PM from Phil. He made a very nice offer to correct this situation and then some. He was shocked to hear about this because he does have quality control measures built in but this one just fell through the cracks.

So it looks like the dream is still alive.......

 

[addo]

Credit where credit's due. I'd be a curmudgeon otherwise.

Goodonya Phil.

 

[xctasy]

Phil rocks ahead!

 

[Greywolf]

My engine buy from Phil has been an "epic"! We've swapped hundreds of emails, I've moved...4 times? 5 times? and been to sea and shore and swapped schedules more times than I can count (or Phil could keep up with!).
Through it all, Phil and I have had relatively good communication (a few bumps...on either end) but he has been upstanding and professional through it all.
Long story short, I am happy with Phil's service and am looking forward to building my X-Flow Zephyr...now that Phil actually has my new address to send my parts to!
Ben