My Second Build (It's a long story)

[Mr Comet]

Here's the first build link

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70135

I was going to follow the first build instructions but have a few questions in regards since I am days away from becoming a grampa. Just got the block back from the machine shop (different block code C8) After doing the cleaning of the block per rbohm's instructions can I apply wd40 to the walls of the cylinders just in case I need to drop the project for a week or so because of the baby but get back to it after the baby arrives? Also painting the block clear to get a antique cast look. The vendor gave me a bottle of Clevite assembly lube and I have some COMP assembly lube from the first build. Any problem with using the clevite lube for all bearings since all my bearings are clevite and the COMP lube for everything else? Mixing lubes? Will rubber hose on the end of the piston bolts prevent all metal contact with the cylinder walls during installation? I don't want to get too anal but do want to do a good job. Thanks Denny

 

[schaferstephen]

Denny,

I can tell you that I've always used lightweight gear oil to cover an engine block when I leave it sitting. Maybe someone can tell you if that is bad practice, but IMHO you're much better off wiping the block down with a rag soaked in gear oil.

Can't help you with anything else though

 

[rbohm]

Here's the first build link

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70135

I was going to follow the first build instructions but have a few questions in regards since I am days away from becoming a grampa. Just got the block back from the machine shop (different block code C8) After doing the cleaning of the block per rbohm's instructions can I apply wd40 to the walls of the cylinders just in case I need to drop the project for a week or so because of the baby but get back to it after the baby arrives? Also painting the block clear to get a antique cast look. The vendor gave me a bottle of Clevite assembly lube and I have some COMP assembly lube from the first build. Any problem with using the clevite lube for all bearings since all my bearings are clevite and the COMP lube for everything else? Mixing lubes? Will rubber hose on the end of the piston bolts prevent all metal contact with the cylinder walls during installation? I don't want to get too anal but do want to do a good job. Thanks Denny

WD40 will do just fine on the cylinder walls. if you need to set the engine aside for a while to tend to other things, dirty diapers, etc. then seal the block in a large plastic garbage bag, and toss in a couple packets of the desiccant you find in electronics boxes and other places, to pull moisture out of the air in the bag. make the garbage bag something like a 30 gallon bag, and at least 30 mils thick. the easy way to do it is to duct tape it to the engine stand so you dont have to pull the engine off the stand.

as for the other dealing with assembly lube, they are all about the same stuff, so they mix just fine. the cam lube does have ingredients in it to handle the higher pressure of flat tappet cams for break in, and can also be used on bearing surfaces as well if needed. you can even apply the assembly lube to the cylinder walls if you like instead of WD40. your choice.

 

[Econoline]

Yeah, spray it down w/wd40 and put a lrg trash bag over it. When the time comes, wash the shit out of the block when you get back to it with a bucket, some tide and warm water. Wash the ever loving hell out of it. Then blow it dry, towel it dry, whatever you need to do, get it dry quick and near simultaneously coat it all, quickly, with wd40 or whatever you prefer. But definitely wash it before assembly. When it comes time for paint clean anything you need to with a clean rag then acetone so you can tape it up, then clean the to be painted areas with acetone on a clean lint free rag before paint. Then the next day after pulling the tape/paper, respray or wipe the other non painted area's with thin oil, wd whatever.

 

[Mr Comet]

My first grandchild came into the world on Wednesday 11PM. She is beautiful and with that being settled I am back on the build. The instructions from the first build were lost in the website hack which happened in the spring of 2013. I remember I need to check the clearance of the new main bearing with the block and the crankshaft with the plastigauge but is there any special way to install the main bearing? Also do I need to install the rear main seal for the readings of the seven bearings?

 

[65fback]

Congrats on your first grandkid! I look forward to mine in the distant future when I can hand them back to their parents after spoiling them for the day....

 

[bubba22349]

congrats on becoming a Grandpa!

 

[Mr Comet]

Thanks guys I was hoping someone could answer my questions about my build.

 

[bubba22349]

I will try and answer your questions. Yes you can leave the rear main seal out until your ready for the finale assembly. After you have checked all your bearing clearances, the ring end gaps and found that they are all good to go, do your final cleaning. If you want you can now mask off the block and paint it at this time for a really nice detail, or you can wait until later. Next install or check that all the oil galley plugs are in place, install the freeze plugs, install cam bearings if they haven't been already, next lube and install the camshaft, install rear main seal (also see extra note below), install main bearings in the main webs, lube the bearings, then lay the crankshaft in and install main caps. Torque the main bearing bolts (except for the thrust bearing cap) I torque all the main bolts in a three step process. About all you need to do when setting up the crankshafts thrust main bearing is to use a pry bar to apply some pressure to seat the thrust bearing shells against the crankshaft thrust surfaces to center them, then torque those main bolts, next verify that you have acceptable crankshaft end play. The crank should also spin effortlessly after it's installed and bolts are torqued if you are using a neoprene type rear main seal. Note that for best results when you are installing the neoprene rear main seal clock the seal about 1/8 to 1/4 inch above the blocks parting line on on side and match it the opposite way on the rear main cap put a small dabe of silicone on the ends when you install the rear main cap. If you are using the rope type seal they are installed using a big Dia socket or round bar stock to work it into place (you can also use a hammer to lightly tap it into position) next trim it even with the blocks parting lines with a knife or razor blade. With the rope type seal there will be some noticeable drag or friction when turning the crank. Next you can install the timing chain and gear set and degree the camshaft if you plan too (install the number one piston and rod assembly without its rings or you can first install the piston and rod assembly's. When you stop working on the engine for the day use a big trash bag to cover it up and keep it clean. Good luck on your build

Edited and more to follow

 

[Mr Comet]

It's amazing how much I forgot in just a little over a year. The main caps go with the arrows pointing to the front of the block, correct? Also my tolerance is .0025 on the main bearing is that correct? My first main read between .002 and .0015 with the green pastigauge so if my memory serves me well I am just fine on that. Am I ok to proceed?

 

[bubba22349]

Yes main caps arrows point to the front of block. Bearing clearance will depend on your intended use for a Hi performance build or street and race build .0020 to .0025 and would be very good. Race only you could use even more clearance .0025 to .0035. For a regular use street car DD ect. The Tighter bearing clearances are better for longer engine life and good oil pressure .0015 to 0020 would be very good. By the way what year engine and parts are you using for this build also are you building a 200 or a 250? Depending on the year of the engine when new Ford listed main bearing specs of as tight as .0005 to .0015 (for a 1969 to 71 250) or .0008 to .0024 for (1972 to 77 250) the specs for a 200 are almost the same though they varied from a bit tighter on the the very early engines to the same looser specs on later model engines. For the way I drive and use them I go with bearing clearance more towards the looser side of the specs. Yes for a good street driver engine build up you would be right in the sweet spot. For crankshaft end play you will be looking for .004 to .008, and .0008 to .0024 on the rods. Good luck on your build

 

[Mr Comet]

Most the rest of the caps read closer to .0015 so that is good. On the previous post rbohm said to use a feeler gauge to measure the space between the pistons and the cylinder. I have not used feeler gauges that much so here is what I got. The first one which would not fit was the .010 thru .012. By the eye balling the gap this time is smaller then my first build. The machine shop ordered the pistons first before they bored and honed the block. This was to make sure the bore would be accurate. The new pistons are 30 over.

on the rear main cap there is a pointed stud in the channel where the neoprene rear seal would go. Can I just cut that out?

Any special pattern I should follow for installing the rings?

The block is a C8 200 cid. Piston as stated above are 30 over. Head is a 73 250 cid which has been milled to yield 54.66 cc volume. The block was also decked .007. My calculation will yield me a 9.0 to 1 CR.

 

[bubba22349]

Most the rest of the caps read closer to .0015 so that is good.

(1, Yes that would be great what you can do sometimes is to swap a bearing shell (1/2 bearing) that reads tighter for 1/2 that reads looser to get them to match closer)

On the previous post rbohm said to use a feeler gauge to measure the space between the pistons and the cylinder. I have not used feeler gauges that much so here is what I got. The first one which would not fit was the .010 thru .012. By the eye balling the gap this time is smaller then my first build. The machine shop ordered the pistons first before they bored and honed the block. This was to make sure the bore would be accurate. The new pistons are 30 over.

(2. That is correct what rbohm said, the feeler gauges will need to be much thinner use one on each side of piston to get an accurate measurement, so divide the clearance your looking for in 1/2. When you have the correct size of feeler gauge you will feel a slight drag as you pull them. You will be looking for .0014 to .002 of clearance for a regular cast piston. hyeutectic pistons need just a little more and a Forged would need even more)

on the rear main cap there is a pointed stud in the channel where the neoprene rear seal would go. Can I just cut that out?

(3. Yes if your using a neoprene seal instead of a rope seal it most be removed)


Any special pattern I should follow for installing the rings?

(4. Yes the gaps need to be staggered about 120 to 180 degrees apart from each other and should not be lined up over the piston pins, there is even a special chart for the ideal Ring positions (see below link). Think of it kind of like this clock face at 2:00, 4:00, 8:00, 10:00. The Ring gap should be .010 to .020 for Top and Second Compression Rings the Third Oil Control Ring or Oil Scraper should be .015 to .055)

The block is a C8 200 cid. Piston as stated above are 30 over. Head is a 73 250 cid which has been milled to yield 54.66 cc volume. The block was also decked .007. My calculation will yield me a 9.0 to 1 CR.

Example of a Ford Ring Gap placement chart
http://mustangforums.com/forum/5-0l-gen ... build.html

 

[Mr Comet]

I got the crankshaft all installed and tightened to 65# on all caps but the thrust and the crankshaft wont budge. So much for freely. I am going to loosen each cap until it will move. If anyone has helpful tips please feel free to help. Thanks

Just removed the rear cap and that is where I have the hangup. Should the flat spot where the rear seal makes contact have assembly lube on it? I put oil on the seal but nothing on the metal.

 

[Econoline]

Did you remember to punch the pin out of the cap?

 

[Mr Comet]

Econoline

Yes I did but thanks for asking. Not sure what was binding it up but it's OK now. Thanks
Got all of the pistons installed.
Does 24# sound like the torque for the connecting rod nuts?

To move forward I need to take some of the parts off my engine which is in the car. This may take me a few days. I am using the cam, lifters, push rods, head, rocker assembly and other parts. Since I am using the camshaft does it need to be degreed again? Should I make sure the lifters are in the same location in the new block as they were in the old? The cam and lifters only have 1100 miles on them.

Thanks

Denny

 

[bubba22349]

Ford 200 six Torque Specs
Main bolts 65-70 Ft. Lb.
Rods 24-26 Ft. Lb.
To test your complete assembled Short Block use a torque wrench and see how many Ft. Lb.'s it take to turn it 25 to 35 is very good and also depends on type of rear main seal. A Rope seal will require some more torque to turn then a Neoprene seal.

There is Nothing wrong with using a cam and lifters over again if they are still in good condition, but Yes always keep the lifters on the same cam lobe or the order its located in the block or you will need to go through the cam break in procedure again. I usually will try keep the push rods in the same position too when reusing in them. You might do a quick check of the cam degree-ing since you are using a different crankshaft it might not work out to be in the exact same position due to manufacturing tolerances. Good luck

Edited

 

[Mr Comet]

In the process of removing the lifters from the old block one came out in two pieces namely the center piece and spring and the outer part. I did find the retainer clip but I do not feel good about putting it back in the engine repaired. These are Clay Smith lifters I bought from our host. They only have 1100 miles on them. Any ideas?

 

[bubba22349]

Does it show any signs of damage to any of the parts? If you clean it up and reinstall all it's parts and the C clip will snap back in place with enough spring to lock it together I would say it will probably be OK. Remember the push rod and rocker arm are also applying pressure on the lifters piston to hold it in place too. You could also get a new C clip off another new lifter to replace it if you think it's bad. Your call if you want to replace the lifter it's not a very big expense and is sure going to be much less work now then later. Good luck

 

[Mr Comet]

Some schools of thought say to replace the cam and lifters together but this seems such a little thing to be spending $225 over. I have a complete set of sealed power lifters which were in the engine for only 5 months which is less then the clay smith ones were. Could I use one of those or is it wiser to buy one clay smith lifter? Mix and match a bad idea? I have a clay smith 264/264/110 cam. I am really not that knowledgeable about the differences. You are right it's best to do it right while it's apart.