Mystery fuel pump for 200

BoncStang-60s

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Hi bubba22349,

I agree that none of this makes sense. But this engine is a mystery or I'm not capable of putting on a simple fuel pump.

I put the rocker arm on the top of the block opening because I believe the cam rides on the bottom of the rocker arm.

This engine has another odd history as it doesn't have the correct dip stick, but I'll start a different thread for that when the pump issue is behind me.

Tom
 

chad

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BoncStang-60s":1ahcjst1 said:
dip stick
haha, just hafta laugh. I heard that used as a derogitory: "You;re a dip stick." Think it might have started w/a late 60s TV show?
Anyway,
when I purchsaed my bronk in '82 or 3 it had 2 dip sticks - "L" & "R". I saw one in the oil pan, one near the fuel pump. After 10, 15 yrs of ownership I got down to it a lill more and since the hood hit the A/C I decided the short block came from a car. I got a late model frame later, (heavier duty 2.5 inch SL, etc) swapped everything over (it wuz a bent8 so hada torch off the engine towers, arc-on i6 for the 170). Long story short. Still later yet I saw that the 250 I wanted to swap in hada front sump. :idea: My motor DID come from a car! Bronk 170s must have a rear sump. Pre '83 after a blown motor the Shell Gas station owner (2nd to own the bronk) must have got the rig w/a blown motor cheep and when swapin in any ol 170 he just kept the bronk specific pan (so it would not hit the frnt differential). The clutch he put in? Another story (longer) may B 4 another day...a 50 yr old vehicle under the same owner 38 yrs. We B da mystery men, one'n all... :eek:
 

BoncStang-60s

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Chad,

Glad to know I'm not the only one with a mystery engine. My Napa dealer was able to confirm the pump cross reference to Carter M6399. They were going to have to special order for about $50.

They suggested finding it elsewhere. Amazon had it direct from Carter for $23. Expected here today.

Tom
 

BoncStang-60s

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Ugh,

The plot thickens. I recruited my 80 year old father in-law, retired mechanical engineer, he was a designer of military jet engines for Pratt and Whitney in the early 60s. He also worked for a auto parts contractor that manufactured the first dashboard pads for Ford in the mid to late 60s. My mother in-law sewed a prototype material together that was used to test the simulated stitches of the 67 Mustang dashboard.

But back to my present problem. Working together we were able to find the low spot on the cam. With the help of plyers we were able to pivot the new pump on one bolt until we could catch a thread. This allowed us to complete the installation.

Unfortunately, this pump is not working. No fuel. We tried pressurizing the tank, primed the pump, but nothing worked. Tomorrow I will put the old one back on, and test it's function again.

Once again, I am at a loss to why I can't install a simple fuel pump. :(
 

bubba22349

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You could try Pumping some fuel into the new pump to prime it, but also as long as there is fuel still in the carb the engine should start right up and eventually the new fuel will also start pulling fuel from the tank and pumping fuel to the carb. (y) :nod:
 

BoncStang-60s

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bubba22349,

Yes, we tried these steps and others. Iater today I'll put the old pump on for the 4th time and test again.

If the old pump work I'm not sure where to go next except maybe an electric pump.
 

BoncStang-60s

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So I did learn something from all of this.

- Carter M60387 is the correct pump for our 67 Mustang 6-200. Of course you guys knew that.
- The old pump on my engine 40957, which I've seen NOS of, crosses to Carter M3699.
- The fuel IN for M60387 is for 5/16" rubber hose as it should be.
- The fuel IN for M3699 & 40957 is for a 3/8" rubber hose.

Tom
 

chad

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BoncStang-60s":mhtsamip said:
File size restrictions are to small. I reduced them to around 245k and I can't even attach one.
link to hosting site sorta as U did in post #18:
google docs, photobucket, etc
 

chad

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hummmm, may B I should not have suggested THAT one. It requires "a permission".
When some of my consults have sent me pic I guess I already "had permission" as it just opened 4 me.
:oops:
Not too good on these processes altho w/puters (a terminal connected to MIT) since '66 and on-line in '83 (Nexus/Lexus).
May B photo bucket or what others more familiar w/this stuff offer when showing up here. :hmmm:

EDIT:
OK, I C da pic...
In my mind there's no difference in the 2 final pic. The old might have been placed in 'right side up'...w/the long assembly pointing up. U will C in other pic most have the long up, but a rare 1 will B 'upside down'.
The new should do so as well (swap). The arms do look a lill different. If U want, follow my above suggestion and swap arms only.
I can't see Y the arm will not go onto the cam (hidden inside the block). Ur pliers handle was a good idea - can U see in there? No" - try the new pump upside down...fiddle by 'bumping the motor' (short 'turn over' w/ign key just jogged, not an actual start) then try the pump. This would position the cam differently. Never had this issue w/the 4 or so I've done.

Now I C U have a 170 bronk. Go C that one. The pump will most likely B 'right side up'.
 

frozenrabbit

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That new one doesn't look the same. Body farther away from mount surface, arm looks different.

Not sure what's up. I've bought one off the shelf at local parts store. and a new older style canister filter one from eBay. Both fit without a problem.

Even with lobe up on cam, it didn't take pliers to compress the pump arm to install.
 

BoncStang-60s

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:banghead: no luck tonight. I have now tried both brand new Carter pumps and neither work. M60387 and M6399. Both have identical mounting flange and rocker arm.

- These are installed upright as intended to match up with the stock steel line to the carburetor.
- zero suction is felt on the INput and zero pressure felt at output when cranking engine.
- I don't know the history of this engine so for all I know it may have the wrong cam in the engine.

- I'm out of options except electric.

- Thanks everyone for the help.
 

BoncStang-60s

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frozenrabbit

Exactly, my old pump does not require plyers and goes right on without having to position engine to the low spot.

Tom
 

bubba22349

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Not going to be the cam only few different stock cams grinds through out all the years of the 200's production and the fuel pumps eccentric is made the same on all of them. Pictures help a lot thank you X2 I am with Frozenrabbit' that new pump looks odd the arm much longer and mounting flange looks to be made so the pump would be installed pointing down instead of like your old one which is up, you could try that mounting with it but then all your line hook ups will need to be changed. For a better comparison could you take a few pictures of the two pumps next to each other? What's the origin or country of manufacture of these new fuel pumps? Just curious you have said you keep reinstalling the old pump again is it still working ok? What was your reason for wanting to replace it? :nod:
 

BoncStang-60s

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First you guys are awesome. Just having someone to bounce issues off of has been helpful and encouraging.

I thought I posted side by side pictures. I'll look again.

So the pump has to go upright for all the reasons stated. I don't know the pump's location of manufacture, but the new ones are both Carter. One maddening thing is I've seen different pictures for the same Carter pump online. The one picture that looks the most like my old one, I can't seem to get.

I did find a NOS AMGAUGE 40957 Fuel Pump on ebay for $20 and it's on its way.

This engine has had a mystery power issue that would hesitate and stall at stop signs and run rough or lose power at cruise speed. This year I set out to replace everything from the tank to the carburetor and the pump is the only thing I haven't been able to replace.

The pump may be fine as I think the above symptoms are gone, but now I'm determined to have a new pump or at least a spare.
 

chad

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after doing this a lill while (fielding Qs on-line @ a forum) I see a pattern. Some ask a Q w/the answ already embedded in the Q. Stead of a statement abt a problem. I fear this may B another - but certainly have no idea...

"...This engine has had a mystery power issue that would hesitate and stall at stop signs and run rough or lose power at cruise speed. This year I set out to replace everything from the tank to the carburetor and the pump is the only thing I haven't been able to replace...."
Many of these issues can best B addressed w/ignition tunes or checks 1st, then a move onto fuel issues. I may B among the few this point applies to as I can not afford alota new parts, others want or don't care how many new parts they install. It's a hobby and time is not of the essence. And more
(y)
 

BoncStang-60s

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Chad,

Thanks for your candid response. Sometimes it takes someone else to see the answer in the question, which is why these forums are so valuable. I don't have any professional mechanics training and have learned by doing and asking questions of those with knowledge and experience.

We started with rebuilding the carburetor, then timing, points condenser. This has happened over the last few years. With no change, then I turned to fuel delivery.

We've had this car for 19 years and drove it regularly for the first 5 years. When we started a family it was parked in the barn. Now are kids are teens and so we're focusing on the car again.

It may seem we're just throwing money at this, but that's not true. I'm trying to understand how this all works and learn as we go.

This problem with the replacement pumps is real and now I just want to know what is going on so I can get a replacement fuel pump when I need it.
 
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