Need help determing block ID (this aint no 200 cid)

[Mac]

Well, the 65 mustang coupe I bought had a 'T" code stamp on the frame so I was expecting a 200. However once I got her hoisted out of there last night and was able to clean off the grime, it looks like I may have a 250.

The head casting is D7BE 6090 AB which I found to be a (year 1975-1980) 250 head/intake.

The block reads D8BE 6015 GC. I cannot locate this casting ID. Can someone tell me what year/size this animal is? Thanks!!

 

[Asa]

'77 head
'78 block

C is the 60s
D is the 70s
E is the 80s
the second number is the actual year of the item

is the head off? you could check the stroke if so
read this, it should give you a couple ways to check and determine what it is
http://fordsix.com/200-250.htm

but someone will prolly be along that already knows what it is

 

[Mac]

Thanks Evan. The head is still on but I plan to remove it this evening when my son gets home. I will check out the URL that you posted.

 

[80Stang]

Measure block height from oil pan line to top of block.

200 = 8 1/16"
250 = 10 1/16"

 

[Inline6Merc]

Check to see if the starter is below the oil pan line. If it is its a 250. If its above the line its a 200. A 250 also has a 4 bolt water pump. Where a 200 has a 3 bolt water pump.

Later,

Curtis

 

[MercuryMarc]

I am an expert in misidentifying the 250 for a 200.......
I rebuilt a spare 200 and went to stick it in my car, and only after I pulled the motor did I realize that I had a 250...
Don't rely in the casting numbers (that is what go me into trouble).
There are many subtle differences:
250 has
4 bolt water pump, wider rad hoses
Taller deck height
Low mount starter
Wider oil pan

200 has
3 bolt water pump, narrower rad hoses
Shorter deck height
High starter mount (at least pre 72 I think)
Narrower pan

However, with the engine in the car, it can be tricky to find these little clues. In my opinion the easiest way is to measure the height of the block (from the top of the oil pan to the bottom of the head).

I just measured mine and my 78 200 is 8.5 inches tall and the 69 250 is 9.75 inces tall (approx measurments).

The next easiest way is to look carefully at the starter- if it is totally above the oil pan, at approximately 10 o'clock, it is s 200 (or 170). If it is about the level of the junction of the pan and the block, and just a touch below, at 8 o'clock, it is a 250.

You can confirm the rest of the harder to find differences later to be sure.

Hope this helps (and that you figure out which engine you have before you rebuild the wrong one....)

Marc in SF
63 Comet
69 250/C4
Dual Cupholders
http://mercurycomet.net

 

[Mac]

Block height is approx 8" and the water pump has 3 bolts. The starter was totally above the pan-to-block line.

So I've got a 250 head and a 200 block? Jeez.... and guess what..... the C4 tranny uses one of those torque converters that has an 11" - 132 tooth ring gear welded to it.

 

[Asa]

by a certain point in time, the 250 and 200 heads were the same casting
i can't remember when, but that one should be well past it... early 70s maybe?

 

[kukm66]

Mac:

Make sure you CC the head. The 250's had chamber sizes up to 62CC. That will lower your compression. Optimum chamber size is around 52CC.

 

[Mac]

Thanks for all the great input everyone. Im a bit disappointed that its not a '65 200 block and head. I pulled the head off last night and theres considerable carbon sludge on the piston and generally nasty looking. So Im going to take some measurements on the cylinders and crank and Im pretty sure this guy is going to get a rebuild if I keep it . This is on a 65 mustang and I would like to keep everything 'fairly' original though so I see 3 choices.

-sell the engine and buy a 65 block and head for a 200 which would simplify work on the engine in the future and may offer higher resale value.

-keep it as is... 70's decade 200 block and 70's decade 250 head and just rebuild as is.

-keep the block and purchase a 70's decade 200 head so that the setup will be more accurately integrated.


If you were in my shoes, whatjadu???

 

[mustang6]

Hi Mac,

Where are you located? I've got an original 65 block and head apart but complete, out of my 65 Ranchero. Standard bore, needs a rebuild. I didn't care as much about originality so I replaced it with a different engine. THis would match right up to your Mustang. $50 would take it all from me. I live near Tacoma, Washington.

 

[Asa]

unless you're doing a concours correct restoration, going with a 65 block and head for resale value is pointless, it won't bring in more money, they never coded the blocks to the cars like they did with some of the rarer cars, and also because anyone buying it is most likely going to just swap in a V8

i'd go with whatever is easiest for you to do, not too mention whatever makes more power

 

[Mac]

Hi Mac,

I live near Tacoma, Washington.

Thats a temptation Scott but unfortunately, I live just outside of Shreveport, Louisiana... so the freight charge would be high.

...but if I lived closer...

 

[Mac]

i'd go with whatever is easiest for you to do, not too mention whatever makes more power

This wont be a concours restoration so you're probably right about the resale value. But I would like to be able to find torque specs, tolerances, and other general rebuilding help for an entire engine from a single source rather than 2 sources. Maybe Im making this harder than it is.. I dont know.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe greater minds could chime in to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a D7** head pretty desirable for a near-stock rebuild? With the larger valves, hardened valves seats, etc? From the Schejeldahls' Performance Handbook and information I've gleaned from the forum, I thought this was the best budget-oriented way to maximize power with natural aspiration. How much does it have to do with the block being used? I'm still in the early planning stages of my project and have been planning to look for one of these heads for my 65 200. Take a look at my signature... and please correct me if I'm not using my head...

 

[MustangSix]

Mac,
Most of the differences in the block were to accomodate various fixtures and options as the years progressed. The draft tube opening was eliminated, extra mounting bosses were added, additional dipstick tube locations, etc., but the basic engine is pretty much the same from 1965 to 1983. All the bolt torque figures are the same, the gaskets, bearings, rings and hard part....all interchange.

The heads varied a good bit over the years to accept differnt carbs and emissions devices, but they too are interchangeable for the most part. Only the carb opening is tricky if you want to retain the original small Autolite, but even that only requires a little adapting.

The biggest operating difference will be in the compression ratio. The later head has a bigger chamber, so it will be something around 8.0:1 if you simply bolt it on. Milling the head to reduce the chamber size can restore the ratio.

Once assembled and painted, only the experts here on this forum seem to be able to tell the difference between a 78 and a 66 block. Only the casting numbers would give it away to the rest. And it will make no difference in the way it runs.

As the guys said, unless the rest of the car is a concours restoration, the only thing that will matter is that the engine type matches the data plate.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy All:

Brady- You're right the D7BE 6090 AB is an excellant head for the latest in factory improvements. Largest intake valves, larger carb hole, hardened seats, and a larger intake tract volume. The AB suffixes indicates a flat-top log as well. The down side is the larger 62 chamber and likely an aftermarket composite head gasket to farther reduce CR unless the mechanic was smart enough to mill to compensate.

Mac- you might want to read the sticky at the top of this forum on interchangeability of heads for specific details.

Adios, David

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Again:

Oops! A PS if you please.

The C9XX M casting was the 1st larger 62 cc chamber head. Other C9XX castings with non "M" suffixe were 52 cc chambers. The DOXX casting is still a mystery. The DODZ had 52 cc chambers and was unique to 170 engines. DODE A castings were found on 200 & 250 in various configurations, large and small chambers and carb holes, and log configurations. All had 1.69" intakes and 1.38" exhaust valves. All D3XX and later heads have the 62 cc chambers, on 200 and 250 engines.

Reminder- with FOMOCO is is dangerous to use words like "Never" and "Always".

Mac- your D7 head casting came on both 200/250 engines, so in that respect it is correct.

Adios, David

 

[Mac]

Thanks a million for all of the good information. Thats good enough for me as it looks like the current setup is what is best for my situation anyway.

Everyone. I appreciate ya taking the time to respond to a rookie whos learning the ropes.

 

[Mac]

Mac- your D7 head casting came on both 200/250 engines, so in that respect it is correct.

Adios, David

Thanks David. Looks like Im set to go!