New AzCoupe head on Clifford block?

[Anonymous]

Building a 1961 Falcon Ranchero, planning on running a T-5 tranny, already have a narrowed 9" rear with Posi and 3.50 gears. Would like to add A/C at later date, but car is light enough I don't think Power Steering is needed.

Have already ordered an engine from Clifford Performance as follows:

200 I-6, "0" decked block, .030 overbored, balanced and blueprinted, dished pistons. Cam is 276 duration (218 @ .050), 110-lobe center, ground 4 degrees advanced, .486 net with the spec'd 1.6 adjustable rockers.

Had also ordered a milled, ported and polished head with 1.6 adjustable rockers, stainless steel valves, 1.84" intake & 1.50" exhaust & Offy triple 1-bbl intake with 3 Webers. According to Clifford, the compression ratio with this combo would be approx. 9.9:1 with the .045 head gasket. Engine as ordered is complete ("turn-key") EXCEPT the dizzy, water-pump and flywheel.

However, Clifford is now having difficulty obtaining a complete Offy intake set-up in time (linkage back-ordered at Offy, so they can't ship complete kits), so I may be cancelling the cylinder head and intake and going with FSPP's Aluminum Head now, rather than waiting until later to swap to it.

Does anyone have any input as to whether the short-block and cam parameters above will work well with the FSPP head?

Since I'm going to have to wait for the cylinder head either way, I am trying to decide which one to wait for here. Would love to know what kind of power numbers I can expect from the FSPP head with this short-block as well.

Does anyone have a good (fairly accurate) desk-top dyno program that can run the numbers?
Which way would you go?
If it is recommended to just jump to the FSPP head right off the bat, what carb should I use?

Any advise appreciated.

Mike.

 

[Mustang Boy]

i would recommend the FSPP head and there will be many different intake combos to choose from including EFI intakes

 

[LaGrasta]

from what i gather, the FSPP head is good for at least 70hp in and of itself. That's worth waiting for.
Sounds like you're going to have a really nice set-up when all is said and done. I can't wait to hear some dyno numbers from it.

 

[Gene Fiore]

IMO, I would definately go with the Ford Six aluminum head. Here is what Mike at Ford Six told me recently regarding the log head:

"That thing will never flow enough air to get any serious power, unless it is forced in by a turbo or supercharger. Naturally aspirated, the best flow obtainable is 137 cfm. Period, no matter what you do to it. "

I'm sure it will be well worth it.

 

[Anonymous]

Gene,

I tend to agree, but am simply looking for input from others more experienced than me on this particular set-up to make a final decision.
Obviously the easiest thing to do altogether would be to scrap the 6 and just go with the bent-8 stroker I already have.
But... I'm trying to do something different on this one, and I have an opportunity to "do it right" here. I just need to define "right" without flittering away cash with no purpose.

My gut tells me to go with Mike's aluminum head. Hell, even if it flows the same as the log-head I'll save more than 1% on total body weight, which is 2% over the front axles distribution wise. I just want to do it once, know what I mean?
I'm really leaning toward the new head, but I've never personally experienced an Offy head set-up right either. And, there are'nt exactly a slew of the new heads out there yet to compare to at this point.
Need help analyzing.

I'm so confused... ;-)

Mike.

 

[Gene Fiore]

I concur that it can be very confusing trying to decide what the best way to go is. I personally have not experienced the offy setup, but from what I have read on this forum, it can be quite a challenge to get it running right and free from tuning issues. If you are not in a huge hurry to get this thing built you might want to wait until some of the new heads go out. There are several forum members here that have been selected to "test" the first batch of heads, I think somewhere around December timeframe. You might want to check with Mike at FSP for more details. If you are unsure of the aluminum head, maybe you should wait for some results to come in. I like simple setups, so for me I will be going to the aluminum head with a small four barrel carb ( like the 390cfm or 450 cfm ) when I do a performance build on my 250.

 

[AzCoupe]

OK, I'll chime in. I don't usually reply to topics like this because I like to let them go there own way, without my influence. Good or Bad.

However, IMHO, I don't believe the log head will ever flow enough CFM, naturally aspirated, to achive any serious power. Sure, you can get some good bottom end torque with them, but they simply don't cut it on the top end.

The triple offy helps, but the log is still a hinderance, and the exhaust isn't much better. Even if you do get the intake CFM's up, your still limited with what you can do to the exhaust ports. To make power, you need to move air, plain and simple. And the aluminum head does just that. Not only do the intake ports flow 50% better, so do the exhaust ports.

We are in the process of producing a batch of fifteen heads. Some of these will be going to forum members as soon as we get them, so we can see some "real world" testing. Most of these guys have tracked their performance gains with each modification they've made, so we should get some great comparisons. As they say, "the proof is in the puddin".

So, my recommendation is to sit tight for a few more weeks and wait to see what they all have to say, after they install and run the new heads. I'm banking (litterally) that it will be pretty impressive.

 

[82F100]

Just out of curiosity not picking on Clifford, but what year head are they using?Or is it a crap shoot wether you get a latemodel head with the bigger log and valves or an earlier head with the smaller log and valves to start with?

 

[Gene Fiore]

Excellent question!

 

[Anonymous]

They wanted to put a 65 to 69 head on it. I requested the later head instead due to log size, with it being milled down for compression.

 

[Anonymous]

Confirmed last night.
They're putting an E0 head on it (80).
Cancelled the Offy set-up (don't want to sit in back-order).
Head won't really matter much anyway, as I'm putting one of Mike's Alum heads on as soon as possible.
Should have the engine here in another week or so.

 

[65 comet]

Hey PhantomAce if you don't mind me asking how much is the motor costing you and did you have to supply the core?

 

[Anonymous]

from what i gather, the FSPP head is good for at least 70hp in and of itself. That's worth waiting for.
Sounds like you're going to have a really nice set-up when all is said and done. I can't wait to hear some dyno numbers from it.

Clifford's website claims his log head is good for 70hp.? Is that possible?

 

[Junk-Falcon]

i have

 

[Anonymous]

Hey PhantomAce if you don't mind me asking how much is the motor costing you and did you have to supply the core?

Engine complete with milled, ported and polished head, stainless valves, 1.6 adjustable rockers, 0-decked block, bal and blued bottom end, bored over, new pistons, turned crank, cam (276 dur, 486 lift, 10 centers), hyd lifters, aluminum valve cover, tin oil pan, double roller timing chain, timing cover, 2-belt pulley (everything but carb, header, dizzy & water-pump) assembled ready to install was $4,000, no core charge.

That's the price without the Offy set-up or carbs.

I KNOW it's a bit pricey, but didn't have a lot of options, as everybody here just wants to build V-8's, not a single shop I called even had a torque plate for the small Ford six, wasn't exactly confidence inspiring...

I'm going to take it with the head on as is, break it in to make sure there aren't any "warranty" issues first, and THEN I'm yanking the head and going with Mike's aluminum head and manifold. Debating 2V, 4V or EFI now.
Might want to put a Paxton on it later, but that would require a different set of pistons and probably a cam change, so that is WAY down the road, if ever.

Buying it complete from Clifford was kind of the long way around, and a little extra money, but I've waited over 25 years to build this car, I'm trying to do it right.

Mike.