Newbie here, please help me ID an engine!

[Anonymous]

I´m new to this board. I spend a lot of time on the Vintage Mustang Forum, and asked the same question over there. Got the advice to pay you a visit, so..., here I am.

I need help in identifying the engine in my car, which is a -67 Mustang Coupe with what I believe to be a 250cui engine (not original to the car ofcorse), and a 3-speed manual transmission.
Here are a couple of pictures of my engine. If possible I would like the head, block and carb individually identified, as well as any other thoughts regarding the engine. I allready know that the engine doesn´t match the car, but is there discrepancies other than that regarding the engine. It has been suggested that it is a 200cui, or that it is a 200block with a 250 head. If so, I would like to find out, which is why I would like to have them individually identified.

Left side of the engine:

Right side:

Block # "C9DE 8015-B". The second digit "9" is hard to read, it could also be a "8" or an"0" :

Intake manifold # "C9DE-6090-M" or possibly "C9OE-6090-M" :

Sticker on the valvecover.

Carb, but what is it, and is it "correct" for stock performance for this car :

If it´s possible, I would apprecciate a dechifering of the codes and their significance.

Thanks in anvance!

Anders Olsson

 

[CobraSix]

Welcome over here!

I am a little confused by it. It has a low mount starter which leads me to believe 250, but the date code makes me think 200 since they didn't make the 250 in 68 did they?

Same thing, look at the water pump, are there four bolts holding it to the block, or 3? If 4, you have a 250, 3 = 200.

Slade

 

[67 Falcon]

The head is a 69-74 200. The block is a 68-69 200. I thingk the carb is a carter RBS. Hope this helps. Russell

 

[CobraSix]

What about the low mount starter? In the picture, it looks like it is mounted below the oil pan line, which means it is a 250, since the BB200 was not until 81-83.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

Hi guys (and thanks Slade for pointing out this place to me)!

This is making me confused...,
Okey, about the casting# on the block, exactly WHAT is it that makes you think it´s a 68-69 200 block? What is it eactly that is wrong for a 250?
If I am correct, and it reads "C9DE-8015-B"than that translates to a -69 250 block according to the chart of casting numbers on this very site!? Had it been a 68-69 200 it would have read "C8DE-XXXX-8" according to the same chart. And while there may be some debate on whether the second digit which I read as a "9" could possibly be an "8", there´s no way the last digit is an "8" instead of a "B".

I´ll check out the waterpump ASAP, but in the meantime, please have another look at it, taking into consideration what I´ve written above. It doesn´t matter THAT much to me. The engine runs fine, but it would be nice to know what I have. AND it would be nice to know how you came up with that result.

Thanks again for the help!

Anders Olsson

 

[CobraSix]

Okay, the head and block have two different date codes on them. The head is a 69head, the block is a 68 block. C9 on the head is 69, C8 on the block is 68 block. Problem is that there are no 250s in normal production cars until 1969. I assume they may have started making the 250s earlier, but I don't know. So C8 makes me want to think it is a 200. But the low mount starter makes me want to think it is a 250. See the problem?

But what you really need to do with the date code on teh block is to make an imprint. Take a paper and pencil and rub over it. The imprint is usually easier to decipher then reading it off the block. It does look kind of like a C9 block code, but the angle is really hard to tell. it definitely is not a 0 because they didn't make the 200 or 250 in 60. If you really stare at it...it does look more like the 9 on head then the 8 that is on my block (yes, I went at stared at it too). If it is a C9, my bet is you have a 250.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

Yes Slade, I definitely see the problem! My digital camera is JUNK!

As I said, I´ll have a look at the waterpump ASAP. I will also have a closer look on the casting# of the block to see if it´s a "9" or an "8".

My bet though is "9" since there is no "waist" visible in the picture (there should have been an indentation of the right part of the digit, where the two "cirkles" of an "8" would have been connected, and there is no such indentation), and the upper "cirkle" is definitely closed, while there´s just a brown spot (rust) connecting the left part of what would have been the lower "cirkle" if it had been an "8".

Thanks a lot for the help!

Anders Olsson

 

[Anonymous]

Uhohh!
We have a problem here. I didn´t notice at first, because I was focused on the problem with the block#, but Russel says it´s a 200 HEAD, while everyone else so far has agreed that it is a 250 head. So, I go check it out on the chart, and low and behold, the chart says that it is INDEED a 200 head if the casting# is C9DE-6090-M. Ofcorse, it could also be C9OE-6090M in which case it is a 250 head.

Gee, I don´t need more QUESTIONS, I need answers!

So..., it looks like I´ll have to take a second look at the casting# on the head too, while I´m at it.

It´s getting late, I´d better go to bed before my curiosity makes me go over there and check it out tonight!

Anders Olsson

 

[addo]

Measure the stroke if you like... Also, I think a 250 based on the height of the motor in the engine bay! I lightened up the pictures to try see the water pump, but no luck.

Sweden! Can I pay out on Yngwie Malmsteen?

Regards, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply Adam!
As I said, I´ll have another look at the casting#´s and the waterpump. Might do it after work this evening, unless something else needs attending to.

Hmm, measure the stroke you say. I´m not that knowledgeable about engines, but wouldn´t that involve dismantling the head? That is not something I´m willing to do at this moment. If all else fails as far as finding out what this engine really is, I´ll be happy to call it a 225!

As for Yngwie, I accept NO responsibility whatsoever!
Seriously, great guitarr-player, but the lyrics on his albums, ohh the embarrasment, talk about clichés!

Anders Olsson

 

[CobraSix]

Easiest way is the waterpump.

Slade

 

[x21]

Welcome to the forum!

The number on the block seems to me more like a 9 than an 8, but its not completely clear.
That carb looks almost exactly like mine. Looks like its missing the choke adjustment.

(wondering out loud to other members)-
If indeed it is a 250 block, would that create a clearance problem if using stock 67 motor mounts, or could that be cured by using 69 and later mounts for a 250? If it were a case of clearance, maybe it could be a 69 head on a 68 (200 cid) block.

 

[addo]

You can get a rough measure of stroke by feeding a wire through the plug hole and turning the motor by hand so the piston is fully down. Try to mark the wire at the inside edge of the thread for the plug. Around 100mm is a 250, more like 80 for a 200.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Okey guys, the jury is in with a verdict, sort of...

Casting# on the block is DEFINITELY C9DE-6015-B, which makes it a 1969 250cid according to the charts on this page.
Together with the low mounted starter, there´s no doubt in my mind. I had a look at the waterpump and there are 3 plainly visible bolts, plus one hidden below the "hose-connection" (forgive a foreigner, but I don´t have a name for it) in a fashion that makes it a bit hard for me to tell whether it´s a part of the pump, or something else just by looking at it from above (I went to the garage in my workclothes: white shirt, tie and suit. Wasn´t very keen on jacking the car up an crawling underneath it to find out. ). Still, the fourth bolt seems to be attached to the pump, since it felt like it was when I "probed" it with my fingers. So I´m now convinced the block is a 1969 250.

Casting# on the head is C9DE-6090-M, which indeed translates to a 1969 200cid head.

If anyone has some information that COULD all of a sudden make my 200 head into a 250, or my 250 block into a 200 (mistakes in the charts or such things) then please let me know. The casting#´s are what they are.

Now to the big question. Is there any real gain in horsepower or torque if I got me a 250 head instead of the 200 I have on the engine now? I suppose there are differencies between the two engines, other than dispalecement (cam, valves and compressionchambers come to mind)? Would me having a 200 head on a 250 block meen that I have less power than if I had the correct head, and if so, roughly how much of a difference would there be? :

Thanks very much for the help here!

Anders Olsson

 

[CobraSix]

Sounds like you have a 250. I don't think you'll see any performance difference, maybe a little, but not much.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the help Slade! And that goes for the rest of you guys too! I really aprecciate it.

Anders Olsson

 

[addo]

The 200 and 250 heads should be the same in chamber volume (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) for 1969.

 

[Anonymous]

Okey, thanks Adam!
What is the difference then? Different cam, size of valves or what? Or are they the same in every aspect, as far as "performance" is concerned?

Anders Olsson

 

[Anonymous]

Well i found out my engine is a mutt.Has a 1965 170CID block,a 1966 200CID head,I think the dizzy is from a 64 but it took a point set from a 67.It's all in a 66 Coupe.Today was a rough day lol.Very disapointing.Did make prograss.Cleaned up the garage and got my intake tube extentions welded to the head.Ready to make mounting plates for them an fab an intake.YAY!!Wish me luck.An pictures soon I hope.

 

[simon]

Had to look up in my copy of the Schjeldahl-brother´s Falcon Six Cylinder Handbook for the head numbers ´cause I got slightly confused by the link and its C9OE-head codes mentioned before, contrary to the common C9DE-codes.

I have a `69 250cid engine with a flat-top log head carrying the same number as Anders´ head : C9DE-6090-M.

Here´s a little summary from the falcon performance handbook:

C9DE-M code may be a 200ci head off 1969 Falcon/ Comet/ Fairlane/ Mustang with 1.75 intake bore, but is listed as a stock 250cid head for the same year as well.

200 and 250 heads both share the same valves:
1.649 intake, 1.38 exhaust

Furthermore, the authors stress that they haven´t found any difference between 200 and 250 heads for any year since `69.

This, in summary, leads me to the assumption that your head may be the original head your engine came with. At least, on the pictures you provided, it looks dang close to mine, if not to say, it looks exactly like mine.