Newbie Performance Questions - 1968 Mustang 200ci

[Chaduro]

Hello, I'm new to the whole performance game and whole car thing in general, I have some questions, pardon me if some things are common sense or something like that. Feel free to elaborate or tell stories with whatever answers you may have. Feel free to answer all or just one or a few questions

Noob Questions:
1. Can you supercharge and turbocharge an engine?
2. Can you have a tri-power set up with a turbo?
3. Can you have a turbo with a cold air intake?
4. Can you have a cold air intake and tri-power?
5. Is there something like ram air for ford sixes?
6. On an average working man's budget, would it be more feasible to change to a V8 or modify a ford six, let's say we were swapping in a 289. I've read that stock 289's with a 2bbl carb made 225hp. So, to get to 225 HP, would it be cheaper to put in a V8 or modify an inline 6? If it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap, why bother with the inline 6? Can you make a 6 cylinder go much quicker than a V8?
7. What are the advantages and disadvantages of keeping the inline 6 and modifying it?
8. Can you do more to a 289 in modifications to make it go quicker rather than an inline 6?
9. Being 16, what are some of the first things I should do on the cheap for more performance on my inline 6?
10. In the long run, to make mine quick, not ridiculously expensive like a supercharger, what all should I do?
11. I was told the Mustang's rear end would not be able to handle a turbo, why would this be and what would I have to do?
12. How much boost could an inline 6 handle? Is there any way to increase how much boost it can handle?
13. Does a tri-power or turbo create more HP?
14. Would putting a tri-power or a turbo on a 200ci be cheaper when all is said and done?
15. How do I know which gearing I should put in my car?
16. What are the benefits of switching to 5 lug?
17. How do I know which camshaft I should put in my engine?
18. Would I need to switch to disc brakes if I put a turbo in my car?
19. What can I expect in gas mileage when I've done all the mods to my engine?
20. Should I put a 2 barrel or 4 barrel carb on my engine if I get a turbo?
21. Which turbo should I get? Which is best for the money?
Thanks for all your help Ford Six!

 

[dudeigota66]

All those questions are answered throughout the forum. Ive seen most of them and they are rather easy to find. I would suggest you find the posts and then look through the entire string to learn a few things and how the answers were derived.

You can turbocharge, but checkout the supercharged 250 a member on the forum has. Its great and he used an eaton m90 if i remember correctly. And those came from charged thunderbirds.

Ram air is pretty easy, check out the post by Ludwig on his setup.

Truth is, for best bang for your buck as far as horsepower the 289 would be the way to go. But like many on here say, we keep our sixes as aficionados and people who like to be different. The fact that the six is a bulletproof piece makes the struggle to play it out an enjoyable and fruitful one.

But as i said before, all of these questions are answered (some are titled very similar to your actual questions). Reading through the forum is a lot of fun, you realize the ingenuity of the people on here and their ability to think beyond what is conventional.

 

[mysavioreigns]

ditto to what dudeigotta66 said. But, I've put some answers below...Sorry in advance for my bias against V8s.

1. Can you supercharge and turbocharge an engine? Sure.

6. On an average working man's budget, would it be more feasible to change to a V8 or modify a ford six, let's say we were swapping in a 289. I've read that stock 289's with a 2bbl carb made 225hp. So, to get to 225 HP, would it be cheaper to put in a V8 or modify an inline 6? If it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap, why bother with the inline 6? Can you make a 6 cylinder go much quicker than a V8?

Time for my soapbox. Sorry in advance... The six is very easy to maintain, gets pretty good fuel mileage, and is nearly bulletproof. The 289 is cheaper regarding price/horsepower, but that's not what its all about. Let's say you want to hit 225HP, as you mentioned; you could easily drop in a V8 with a 2BBL or 4BBL and instantly have 225HP. Of course, you'll have to swap out your rear end, suspension, steering components, radiator, and likely make some adjustments on the transmission. And when you do all that, you'll have the exact same engine as everyone else. When was the last time you saw a 225HP inline 6? Ask some of the guys here who draws more attention at car shows, a 225HP six, or a 225HP 289?

7. What are the advantages and disadvantages of keeping the inline 6 and modifying it?
see above.

8. Can you do more to a 289 in modifications to make it go quicker rather than an inline 6?
Much, much more. The six is limited. But, why stop at a 289? You could drop in a 302, or a 351W...I bet with some shocktower adjustments you could put in a 427... (see what I'm getting at? )

9. Being 16, what are some of the first things I should do on the cheap for more performance on my inline 6?
I would do the "Shelby Drop," regardless of what engine you have first, as it is very cheap (nearly free) and makes the car handle MUCH better. Regarding the engine, I would swap to a 2bbl carburetor, and the Duraspark II ignition. Those are all fairly "bolt on."

10. In the long run, to make mine quick, not ridiculously expensive like a supercharger, what all should I do?
Using the stock engine, I would say a 2V Conversion and the carb I mentioned above, as well as a mild cam, perhaps a higher gear ratio in the differential...lots of ideas all over the forum.

11. I was told the Mustang's rear end would not be able to handle a turbo, why would this be and what would I have to do?
It's not so much that it can't handle a turbo, it's that it can't handle high amounts of HP & Torque. A turbo (when properly sized and tuned to the engine) will lead to this.

12. How much boost could an inline 6 handle? Is there any way to increase how much boost it can handle?
One guy here once ran 18 lbs...I wouldn't suggest that high, lol.

13. Does a tri-power or turbo create more HP? Yes.

15. How do I know which gearing I should put in my car?
Depending upon what transmission gearing you have, and what tire size you're running, there are Gear Calculators for determining this. Check the Transmission & Drivetrain subforum.

16. What are the benefits of switching to 5 lug?
More wheel availability, and a stronger rear end.

18. Would I need to switch to disc brakes if I put a turbo in my car?
It would be a good idea to.

19. What can I expect in gas mileage when I've done all the mods to my engine?
Depends on what mods you're looking at doing.

20. Should I put a 2 barrel or 4 barrel carb on my engine if I get a turbo?
Depends on what mods you're looking at doing.

Thanks for all your help Ford Six!

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Chad:

And welcome to The Forum. As has already been said, there is a wealth of information here, just for the time to look for it. I'd suggest that you give us some more information about your car; trans type, condition, modifications. And, about your intended use for the car. the answers to those details will help to narrow suggestions for you to pursue. Also, I'd suggest that you start by getting yourself a Shop Manual for your vehicle and start by getting to know it better.

Q- "Being 16, what are some of the first things I should do on the cheap for more performance on my inline 6?"
A- Start with a good basic tune up. Especially, the ignition, and a good carb cleaning. Next, air up your tires to the Max psi printed on the sidewall of the tire. Then increase the initial advance 5 degrees over the stock specifications.

FYI- in 1968 model 200 engines got a newer, better distributor with both centrifugal and vacuum advance. But, that is also the year that the carb was downsized from previous years, the SCV was removed and a ported vacuum source was added for the distributor advance. The '68 carb is rated at 150 cfm while previous 200 carbs were rated at 185 cfm. Switching back to an earlier carb is not a good option because it will cause a mismatch with your '68 distributor. So upgrading your carb should be a high consideration. But, I'd suggest that you read, assess your needs and wants, along with your budget and your ability before you make any expensive decisions.

All of the mods you asked about are possible and, potentially, would add power. But, at the expense of money, reliability, durability, and simplicity. The plus is you are in an area where some of the most knowledgeable ford sixers live and where parts are available. Check it out.

Enjoy the journey.

Adios, David

 

[bubba22349]

Looks like most of yours questions have been answered.

I've read that stock 289's with a 2bbl carb made 225hp. So, to get to 225 HP, would it be cheaper to put in a V8 or modify an inline 6? If it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap, why bother with the inline 6? Can you make a 6 cylinder go much quicker than a V8?

I would make this little correction on your reading notes “No 289 2bbl carb engine made 225 HP” the factory rating for them were from 200 to 210 HP depends on year. All 225 HP 289's had a 4bbl carb they also had more compression and a bit more cam timing than a 2bbl 289. As to would it be cheaper to put in a V8 or modify an inline 6 or if it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap? That would depend on your being able to do the work and find the parts at a low budget otherwise the old general rule is that it is usually cheaper to use what you all ready have.

 

[66mustang0103]

Howdy Chauduro,

Im 17 also and very new and I have a 66 mustang that I have been restoring for about 1 half years. This is a great a forum that I personally have learned alot from. I have also learned alot from my grandpa. But anyways Ive seen you mentioning alot about performance modifications. One suggestion I have (that I learned the hard way) is check and see what shape your body is in. Did you recently get the mustang? Has it been in a bunch of wrecks? Is it rusted? I would check that after you get it running but before doin any performance stuff. Because what good is a high horsepower engine or any engine for that matter, if the body that you putting it in is full of cancer (rust)? A good engine is even better when you have a solid place to mount it.

Defiantly listen to the people here. They have fantastic advice. Something that I have found helpful with my car is make a to do list and come up with a plan. Decide where ya want to go with it. Below are some places that I have found great to find parts.

Goodluck to ya Josh

http://www.dallasmustang.com/
http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/Default.asp?
http://www.summitracing.com/

 

[Chaduro]

No wrecks, not a lot of rust, only found a nickel sized hole in the trunk so far. Thanks Josh!

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

After seeing post after post like this , I cut to the chase and ask , How much money do you have to spend on the car , if its , I'm just a kid and I work at a fast food joint , ( don't take this wrong cause I was there ) the other questions are moot , dreaming only wastes time , I learned that the hard and fast way , And I refuse to sugar coat an answer , so we go from there. Yep I am blunt , but I always tell it like it is , I didn't grow up on the ( every one gets to play ball no matter if they have talent or not ) the real world DOSEN'T work that way so why lie.

 

[64 200 ranchero]

how mechanically inclined are you, the way i did it was by going to the junkyards and pulling parts off different fast cars, if i needed anything id ask if anyone on the forum was selling what i needed, if you have the skill, get a late model head with the large intake, if you plan on getting a tri setup or a direct mount 2 barrel get the flat log, otherwise get the hex head, I just bolted my tripower head on and i got way more power than id ever expect, without even running the outer carbs! you will find many post on the forum in regards to which head to get and that will be the best bang for your buck, it feels like i have a mild v8 in my car, ((i learned this the hard way but fix any problems the car may have before you even think about upgrades))

 

[CobraSix]

Noob Questions:
1. Can you supercharge and turbocharge an engine?
Yes. It's just a matter of time and money. Is there a kit for the 200? No.

2. Can you have a tri-power set up with a turbo?
Yes you can. The real question is should you? No. There is no real benefit other than show factor. It's a lot of plumbing, more leaks, and in general, boost will solve a lot of the performance issues with the log head since it will shove more air and fuel into the cylinders.

3. Can you have a turbo with a cold air intake?
Yes, infact, you usually should have a CAI for any engine. Is it going to give you 50HP like the shows and movies and ads claim? No. Maybe 1HP, but still not a bad idea.

4. Can you have a cold air intake and tri-power?
See #3

5. Is there something like ram air for ford sixes?
Not as a factory set up.

6. On an average working man's budget, would it be more feasible to change to a V8 or modify a ford six, let's say we were swapping in a 289. I've read that stock 289's with a 2bbl carb made 225hp. So, to get to 225 HP, would it be cheaper to put in a V8 or modify an inline 6?
Taken as a whole, dollar for dollar, the 289/302 will win. Just the shear fact it has nearly 50% more displacement means as a base (not getting into head and flow design) it will create 50% more power. Then you get into the aftermarket support. The 302 has probably the biggest aftermarket support of any engine save the Chevy 350. There are other factors of course, but I count those as moot, since once you get to higher HP even with the I6, you are usually swapping out transmissions, rear ends, front ends, etc.

However, do like some here, slap on a turbo and away you go. Cheap and easy power.

If it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap, why bother with the inline 6?
Its your car, do what you want. You'll find no one here will say going V-8 is wrong. In fact, My next car may likely be a V-8 just to go that route, but it will be a V-8 car to begin with. Problem with V-8 swaps is that everyone has done them. Nothing interesting about them. Also, for resale value, dropping a V-8 in will not increase the value of the car. A C code mustang will still be more valuable than a T code, all other things equal.

Most of us here modify the I6 because we want to be different. When I go to a show (rare as it is, though I've gone to 4 this year) I always have more people at my car asking questions than any of the other V-8s around me. Now my car is no where close to a nice show car. It's daily driven, has a 10 foot paint job (maybe 20) but still draws people in because of the fact so few people see an I6 anymore despite the fact that they were the most sold version of the early mustangs.

Can you make a 6 cylinder go much quicker than a V8?
dollar for dollar? no. equal types of modifications? no. It's just a matter of displacement. 200CI versus 289/302CI, just can't compete. But in theory, given equal displacement, sure. Look at the BMWs, their I6's scream. There are a few here that scream.

7. What are the advantages and disadvantages of keeping the inline 6 and modifying it?
Disadvantage is aftermarket support. Outside Classic Inlines, and to a lesser degree, Clifford, there really is none here stateside. You are left to your own devices.

Which also one of the advantages. It's your canvas to explore. The 200/250 is a rock solid engine. 7 main bearings will make any high performance V-8 guy drool. They may have 2 more cylinders, but I have two more bearings. I6's by design are very well balanced and are low end torque machines (relative to their displacement). I like the I6 mostly because of the modification I'm working on now. I'm working on a EFI system for my 200.

8. Can you do more to a 289 in modifications to make it go quicker rather than an inline 6?
Yes, see above

9. Being 16, what are some of the first things I should do on the cheap for more performance on my inline 6?
Brakes! Seriously, get the car in solid working order before anything. The only exception would be the ignition. Swap in a duraspark2 or pertronix electronic ignition (do a search here to find more out)

10. In the long run, to make mine quick, not ridiculously expensive like a supercharger, what all should I do?
While getting the car solid, lurk around here. Search around. There are tons of builds here.

11. I was told the Mustang's rear end would not be able to handle a turbo, why would this be and what would I have to do?
If you ahve the stock 7 1/4" rear end, it's not good much past 150HP. Trust me on that. If you are looking to turbo, I would suggest going to the 8" rear end. That should also be accompanied by a 5 lug front end swap to, else your rear brakes are going to be huge and out of balance with the front.

12. How much boost could an inline 6 handle? Is there any way to increase how much boost it can handle?
Do a search and read the turbo forums.

13. Does a tri-power or turbo create more HP?
Depends, too many variables.

14. Would putting a tri-power or a turbo on a 200ci be cheaper when all is said and done?
Cheaper than what? a V-8 swap? Probably. But you will still likely need to upgrade the transmission, rear end, and front end (and BRAKES)

15. How do I know which gearing I should put in my car?
have to decide on your build first, including transmission

16. What are the benefits of switching to 5 lug?
Bigger brakes. plus, the 8" rear end will likely handle anything the I6 can throw it's way. Better gearing choices.

17. How do I know which camshaft I should put in my engine?
Read. Do some google searchs on cam selection. I recommend reading the tech sections on CompCams web pages. Again, you need to decide your build before you choose a cam. When you determine that, ask here or call Mike up (Classic Inlines)

18. Would I need to switch to disc brakes if I put a turbo in my car?
I think you should go with disc anytime you bump up power. You can never have brakes that are too good in my opinion

19. What can I expect in gas mileage when I've done all the mods to my engine?
I'm at 147 RWHP, which is around 170BHP. If I behave, I can still squeak out around 27MPG on the highway and 22 on my daily commute. in contrast, my turbo volvo gets about the same.

20. Should I put a 2 barrel or 4 barrel carb on my engine if I get a turbo?
Do a search for Does10s build.

21. Which turbo should I get? Which is best for the money?
Research on the turbo section

Thanks for all your help Ford Six!

 

[rbohm]

Hello, I'm new to the whole performance game and whole car thing in general, I have some questions, pardon me if some things are common sense or something like that. Feel free to elaborate or tell stories with whatever answers you may have. Feel free to answer all or just one or a few questions

Noob Questions:
1. Can you supercharge and turbocharge an engine?
2. Can you have a tri-power set up with a turbo?
3. Can you have a turbo with a cold air intake?
4. Can you have a cold air intake and tri-power?
5. Is there something like ram air for ford sixes?
6. On an average working man's budget, would it be more feasible to change to a V8 or modify a ford six, let's say we were swapping in a 289. I've read that stock 289's with a 2bbl carb made 225hp. So, to get to 225 HP, would it be cheaper to put in a V8 or modify an inline 6? If it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap, why bother with the inline 6? Can you make a 6 cylinder go much quicker than a V8?
7. What are the advantages and disadvantages of keeping the inline 6 and modifying it?
8. Can you do more to a 289 in modifications to make it go quicker rather than an inline 6?
9. Being 16, what are some of the first things I should do on the cheap for more performance on my inline 6?
10. In the long run, to make mine quick, not ridiculously expensive like a supercharger, what all should I do?
11. I was told the Mustang's rear end would not be able to handle a turbo, why would this be and what would I have to do?
12. How much boost could an inline 6 handle? Is there any way to increase how much boost it can handle?
13. Does a tri-power or turbo create more HP?
14. Would putting a tri-power or a turbo on a 200ci be cheaper when all is said and done?
15. How do I know which gearing I should put in my car?
16. What are the benefits of switching to 5 lug?
17. How do I know which camshaft I should put in my engine?
18. Would I need to switch to disc brakes if I put a turbo in my car?
19. What can I expect in gas mileage when I've done all the mods to my engine?
20. Should I put a 2 barrel or 4 barrel carb on my engine if I get a turbo?
21. Which turbo should I get? Which is best for the money?
Thanks for all your help Ford Six!

welcome to the forum and the hobby chad. as to your questions, first you have a lot of them all at once. might want to take them a couple at a time instead.

as for modifying the car to go faster, understand this, speed costs money, how many dollars do you want to go fast? also the only replacement for displacement is lots of rectangular dollars. since you are new, take the time to figure out what is going on first, and build on that knowledge.

beyond that just about anything can be done, and probably has been done over the years.

one more thing, when building your car, decide first what you want from it. if you want a daily driver the very first thing you need to do is make DEPENDABLE and reasonably economical first. if this is a toy, then just about anything goes.

 

[CobraSix]

my recommendation, since my guess is you are new to old cars, and maybe car modification in general.

Keep the 6 for now. Do all the other upgrades first. Rear end, Transmission, Brakes, Front end, suspension work, chassis stiffening, etc. Those are all areas that will benefit both the I6 and the V8 and is not money wasted. Along the way, you may find the path you want to take for the engine. And when you get there, you'll have a solid platform to work with.

Don't do my method. I'm one my 3rd and 4th engine variation now. Well, 3rd engine set up in the car, with a possible 4th underdevelopment and a future 5th actually sitting in my garage. However, I have taken care of the mechanical upgrades first. Brakes, transmission, steering, suspension, etc.

 

[MustangSix]

Excellent advice. If your chassis, brakes, and steering are set up properly, you'll be able to handle the increased power with no problems. There's nothing worse than a poor stopping, bad handling car with too much power.

 

[CobraSix]

There's nothing worse than a poor stopping, bad handling car with too much power.

Yes there is. A poor stopping, bad handling car with too much power driven by a 16 year old (no offense to the OP).

I've never heard anyone ever complain about a car that stops too fast. I'm happy that I've gotten my mustang to stop in the same distance as my volvo (60-0 in about 165 feet).