Nitrous

[Anonymous]

The other way - lifting the tops is caused by shutting the throttle at high RPM, and the sudden vacuum load added to the inertial load separates the dome from the skirt at the weakest point - the ring lands. The rod pulls the pin down ATDC, but the dome doesn't follow it. It's a speed thing, not a power thing.
Nitrous will squash the ring lands due to too much cylinder pressure or detonation. Bad ring seal will happen before complete failure if you're lucky. If it ever cranks too fast after a big shot, you lost a few rings.

 

[Anonymous]

It's no use, i'm done.


-=Whittey=-

 

[rhetor]

something else to consider-

The final torque numbers at the crank are after a whole lot of friction and mechanical loss at the crank and bearings.

To get a 50% increase in torque to the crank, you're probably running a much bigger percentage of downward pressure on the top of that piston.

also- i have no idea what i'm talking about.

 

[xctasy]

It's no use, i'm done.

also- i have no idea what i'm talking about.

Neither do I.

:idea: Lets go buy a 10 pound bottle of medical grade Laughing Gas, sit in the corner with the tap open....and have some real fun!

 

[Anonymous]

NOS has a fogger system for a inline 6. They have a chart on there site for the power levels and octane levels for power ratings. I think 75hp is all you want to go on a stock motor. Just follow the directions with the kit and you will be fine. I used the same kit and it's not as difficult as it seems. Everybody here means well but you guys are making it more diffcult than it really is. Nitrous motors on low hp levels will live a long happy life if the owner uses comon sence. READ THE DIRECTIONS

And where do I get my info. One of our team cars has a 540ci, 970 hp on motor with 2 stages of nitrous 350hp and 300hp kits. Every100 passes before rings, connecting rods, cam roller lifters are changed. Main and rod bearing allways look fine. All this is regular maintance every 12-15 months.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys! I'm new to the forum, but I couldn't keep from putting my two cents into the picture regarding this potential hazzard. Something to keep in mind. Hypo and Hyperutectic pistons " Do not fare well with high NOS levels." Although silicon adds strength to the structure of the piston, in the presence of bolus amounts of this funny stuff ( excess of 25 lbs) hyperutectics and the later will shatter in their bores leaving the owner with two things to remember. One very short lived jolt, and one very expensive boat anchor.

[/quote] WHEN IN DOUBT?? DON'T.

 

[xctasy]

I'm an armchair expert at the moment, so I don't have creditibility like the other guys who have here, period.

There is total information dating back to the early 70's on this subject, and I've seen more issues with forged pistons breaking engines than with good cast pistons IF MODERATION in Nitrous application is used. I've qouted rates of nitrous use, and jet sizes and what nitrus does to keep anyone informed, and eliminate the BIG BANG! Remember, plugs burn, then head gasket fire rings, then pistons. If you

1) follow the set-up instructions, and
2) stay away from running huge shots from the cheaper undercarb systems, then you should never loose a piston to being naughty with spining the bottle...

I am going on what I've seen as common failure modes. The 300 is yet another overdesigned Ford engine using garden variety parts under little stress because of giant wrist pins and its gotta be able to cope with a nitrous boosted power level less than a stock 225 hp 5.0 Mustang engine. People use the rods on 460 strokers. The pistons are tall and well supported. The compression ratio is way low. What's the failure mode for a burned piston if theres enough fuel to cool the nitrous?

On stock engine with carb, cam and exhast mods, 50% may be way too much. I mean with a stock 120 hp net at 3500 rpm 300, I'd doubt a 50% boost would kill it. As long as the engine was in peak health, 180 at 3000 rpm, N20 in at 2200 rpm, would be the effective limit. If the same 300 has, say, a 160 hp at 4000 rpm engine via a cam, carb and exhast change, I'd be kind of worried about the stock lo-po pistons. I'd assert that about 240 hp is then possible.Thats a wicked Nitrous engine with a stock base. The issue is thermal loads with no cooling gasoline fuel delivery. If you add the ingredients in moderation, then you should be okay. Fords Pinto engines can handle huge levels of nitrous without spitting tacks. A 5 liter six is a vastly stronger piece with strong gudgeon pins, crank and a piston ring way down below the piston, operating at a speed about 2/3rds as much as the 2 liter Ford. If FTF or others have seen cracked 300 pistons being as prevalant as they are on 351 Windsors, then I'd be worried about placing any nitrous on it. However, I've not heard of it being a problem.

Hope this helps, and isn't taken as a know-it all rabbiting on about something I know nothing about. (even though I haven't yet experimented with it!!!!)

 

[Anonymous]

Piston Basics
http://www.hoon.tk/tech_tips/pistons.html

 

[MandarinaRacing]

xtaxi, you talk about using N2O wtih MODERATION (sounds logical)....but what happens when magazine writers take a junkyard Chebbie, slap in a nitrous cam and add obscene amounts of juice to it.....check this out you'll love it...
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0303_n20/index.html

Alex

 

[addo]

Impressive! I like how the N/A HP went up after the first couple of shots!

Thanks for posting that.

 

[Asa]

that was an awesome article
sounds like that motor was just put together correctly
sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you don't

 

[Anonymous]

Actually all this is going to be for a 95 EFI. I dont want the max I just want like a 20 hp increase at low rpms to have the grunt to make it over a hill without having to downshift and lose even more speed.

 

[MandarinaRacing]

Bryan, sorry we got carried away, but nitrous at low RPM's doesn't sound like a good idea, to me it would be like going up a hill in high gear and lugging the engine.
If you read the article, these guys got foolish and "purged" the system with the engine at low RPM's...guess what happened....

Alex

 

[xctasy]

Bryan, I don't think nitrous is good for steady state motoring. There is little chance an engine will be able to flat-line at a steady mph or rpm unless some kind of very minor intake charge is added. I've seen 25 hp boosts on 300 hp engines using an external fogger to the air cleaner. No gasoline is needed. This set-up will work better, but your on your own on the safety aspect.

Info I have says that nitrous is for making acceleration, not steady state torque. It can't compensate for a lack of cubic inches unless some kind of new controll mechanism is made. Current technology hasn't been directed to that.

I can see a way I would do it, using a soft throttle position and MAF sensor based system, but it would take a year to prefect. The other issue? It would need to administer a very small amount of nitrous from six small N20 jets. You may get away with no additional fuel jets, and trickle in about 0.02 lb/sec for about 20 hp extra at 3000 rpm, or 35 lb-ft at 3000 rpm. It would cut in at 1500 and dial out at 3000 rpm, and there would be conditional on being over 4/5 ths of wide open throttle to cut in, and at less than 1/2 throttle, it'd have to cut-out.

In this scenario, a ten pound bottle would last 8.3 minutes if you were hauling up a 7 mile, 10% incline at about 50 mph with a big load. If you only have a 1 mile, 10% incline needing some added grunt, you'd find it would last the week.

This is all theory from dyno runs, and the therotical power gain based on a specified application rate. I don't know if just a microswitch system would be safe. All nitrous systems sold in the US are designed for drag racing or off road use. This is a border line case where there are likely to be other safety issues. Low level nitrous applications on big strong engines with 4" bores won't need the conventional excess fuel factor to kerb lean out, as you are just adding a small amount of oxygen. I've seen it on dyno runs before in Hot Rod and Car Craft articles, so I'd doubt an EFI engine with just 20 shot would give any trouble.

 

[Anonymous]

im new here . and this was my first forum i chose to read. but in reading i had to ask myself "why the heck would u want nos just to keep u from having to shift on a hill?? if u dont want to have to shift on a hill why not just change the gear ratio out? if u do alot of up hilld driving (every day to work or something). to me it seems more logical to just change the gear ratio instead of buying a expensive nos kit which will eventually burn ur rings to dust. maybe its just me but nos on stock engines is kinda./... well pointless.. just rebuild the engine bored, higher lift cam, and make it so u have enuff power out of the engine by its self.
just my .o2