Now I am getting somewhere

[Anonymous]

So I am starting a new post.
The old one was getting a tad long.

If you have not read the history on this issue then it can be viewed in all its glory here:
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8980

First let me say thank you to all of you who have helped me out with getting this running right... I think I am finally making some progress.

So in the last week I have been driving it all the time, daily everywhere.
As the oil has burned its way out of the engine I am left with a cleaner burning, totally different engine. Not since it was first fired has it run smoother and sounded better.

I checked out the valves and they are fine. The opening is to spec for the cam and they are all opening and closing nothing sticking... as a matter of fact they look great... Dad and I could not find anything wrong with them.

But we did find a few things..

It was running hot... the timing was retarded a bit, and I had way too much coolant in the radiator, it was almost all antifreeze, this was no good here in the south, even in November we had highs this week in the 70's, but when it gets cool at night it ran better, so I drained off some coolant in put in distilled water... that made the temps better. And the engine runs better at the lower temps. It keeps a good line at 190 degrees now.

I have hit the 600 mile mark, I changed the oil today and checked the new plugs out... they are white. Looks like things are running lean. How would I have ever known with all the oil in there before. It also explains a lot about the way the engine runs... sounding like it is running out of breath at 3000 rpms. I think the oil made this impossible to tell before.

I am going to install a 500cfm Holley. From my playing today I got the idle down to 800 now, runs smooth, and idles well. But the thing just craps out in the high rpm ranges. I ran the engine at 2400 doing Red's mixture test the right way and I can cover the carb completely. It is definitely lean.

It is set at 16 degrees initial timing, 800 rpms, 14 inches of vacume. Runs like a champ... only I have a sluggish pedal that hits the ceiling at 3000 rpms... the best shift spot is 2500 rpms... I think this could be increased.

I am thinking about going back to the 8.5 power valve now that I can tell what is going on. The car ran better with that valve installed from the beginning... and I think it will improve things for now. I will install that in the morning.

Also Thursday it hit rock bottom here in temps, and it was stalling even at 1200 rpms I would shift off from 4th to 3rd and stall. So the cold weather has a bad effect on things.

I hope the original power valve helps get things a little richer. but I think the larger venturi carb and power range of the 500 is better suited to a ported and built 250 2v.

I am going to install the original power valve tomorrow and test.

I am ordering the 500 Holley this week.

This carb just seems to be too small.. the idle needs more air, and the top end needs more fuel... The larger venturi and higher cfm will solve that for me... XECUTE was right on this one from the start... I think the larger Holley is better suited to this intake and will give me more hp anyway.

But I amn curious what your guys thoughts are now that we can see what is really happening.

Thanks

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Let's see what happens when you reinstall the original power valve and jets.

 

[Mustangaroo]

I've been running the Holley 500 almost a year now and love it, more power better drive ability, running a 75 power valve and 87 jets, going to try a four barrell Edelbrock using a two to four adapter soon and I'll let you know how it feels. My son Jason is still running the Holley 650 Quadrojet on his Aussie 2v moded to accept the 4V directly with a mild 252* cam and his performs great, I'm thinking that maybe my ported and cleaned up head could benefit from a little move fuel

 

[CobraSix]

Ben,

I hate you. I was pretty set to run a Holley 390 4V. Let me know how the edelbrock works. I'm curious what size carb I should look for. My head is on the way (in the mail, I track it about every 5minutes). I am going to start with a 2100 351CFM carb until I can put the car up for the winter and give Al my intake to let him hack it into a 4V. The quadrajet sounds like a nice addition. It also gives me an idea of what CFM to look for when I look at TBI EFI from Holley. I'm seriously contemplating that route eventually. Wondering if the 650 4V TBI is the way to go.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

I'm out of ideas.

I thought it was getting better, but it is actually WORSE.
When I timed the car a couple of days ago the dial back timing light was set with 10 degrees on the dial so my 16 initial was really 26. (Things tend to get a bit hot at that setting... otherwise it runs about as well as it does anywhere else.)

So I pulled the timing back to 16 degrees (for real) and it is lumpy, surges, and still runs hot as heck here too. Matter of fact I cannot get the thing to cool down at all now? It runs warm even in cool temps.

It still feels very lean, runs out of power at 3000rpms, and has low throttle response.
But it stinks! smells like gas all the time? how can it stink and be lean?
when you pull up alongside a wall or truck it sounds like a meat grinder or tree branch shredder. you cannot hear it unless something is right next to you. but on the open road at speed it sounds fantastic.

I am going to start calling some mechanics see if I can find some help... I am at a loss...

I am leaning back to valves
Carb issues
Distributor issues
and maybe fuel octane issues.

But I cannot fool with it right now.
I am getting into my busy season, and had hoped to have this worked out by now! alas that is not the case. so I am now stuck driving the thing even though I do not want to... and I cannot devote the time to figure it out, if I can figure it out.

Sucks to be me really, plus if I cannot get this thing running right very soon I think the wife is going to leave me or ask for a funeral for the Mustang. I think if I tore the engine apart one more time she would lose it too...

I just want to get it running decent so I could drive it for a year... without doing anything to it...
I never imagined this would be so difficult to get going.
Maybe I got in over my head.
Went too far from stock... not sure right now I am going to try and find someone local who can help...

But I am still open to suggestions.
I am still going to swap back in the power valve and give it one more go here this afternoon.

I have to make some progress before tomorrow... I cannot keep driving it like this.... I need to get the temps down.

 

[addo]

As a quick patch-up, try running with the vac advance disconnected. Plug the carb where the vac lead goes. With just the regular timing light rig and a tach, note the advance at 500 RPM steps. If the advance comes in too soon, or too far net, it will be fighting itself and this can produce stumbling, low power and overfuelling as people "wet" the spark to reduce pinging.

For mech temp gauges, I have seen the type that screw into the sender position to work relatively well. Until you've checked it against a lab thermometer, treat its results with caution, though.

Adam.

 

[CobraSix]

Easy way to check the mech gauge, stick it in boiling water. Let it heat up with the water though. When the water is boiling, it should read around 210* F. Any difference is the gauges error.

If your carb is running lean, no amount of timing is going to help the overheating problem. Try going back up in jet size. Are you getting much black soot out of the tail pipe? You have to remember, these cars without cat. converters will always smell like gas regardless of tuning.

You sure you not off a tooth with the dizzy?

wires in right order?

recheck for vacuum leaks. Plug your vacuum port for the dizzy at the source.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

Still working on things...

here is an interesting development though...

my oil pressure gauge is fluctuating at times... it bounces from 40-50 pounds and will settle for a bit either at 40 pounds or 50 pounds, but can fluctuate in that range... could be a loose connection on the wiring, I will check that out... but if it is not in the wiring, then it may be internal?

what would cause that.. seems like it might be related to the car movement... does not do it when I am sitting still so much as in motion.

The connection broke off last week and I wired it back, it may just be loose or it could really be fluctuating?

I just changed the oil and filter last week, and the temps are really down but it seems unrelated to weather, it does it hot or cold...

I will check the level later today, but it was full on Monday?


Also the car really surges now, it runs at one pace, then vibrates down to another pace about every other second, the problem with getting the idle down low is that at or below 900 rpms it surges 750-850 800-900 and so on...

I am going to play with it some more later today, getting the timing advance numbers with the vacume lines plugged, and taking a look at things again, I just have not had the time to do anything...

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Did you reinstall the power valve and jets?

 

[strat1960s]

Jimbo,

Hey man, I am sorry that things haven't been going well with your motor. Please stick with it, I am sure you will get it just right. One of the problems you may be have is that as the motor breaks itself in, the varriables (timing, compression, etc.) might change, requiring a little fine tuning here and there. Stick with it, because eventually everything will settle down.
Good luck.
Ted

 

[Anonymous]

Red...

no I have not had time yet, going to install them this weekend...

and I hope I do not have to tear into the lower end, but it is sounding like I may have to...

J.

 

[Anonymous]

I've only been reading and watching this saga, since I have no Aussie head myself ...
But, these various symptoms sure seem like a vacuum leak. I'm not familiar with the Aussie system outside of pix like Mustangaroos' closeups (I'm SO jealous), so maybe one of you guys with A-head knowledge could 'look' at it that way?

The 'straw that broke the camel's back' for me here is the smell of fuel everywhere, but white plugs. Boy, that sure points to a vacuum leak in a V-8.....

Just a thought.

 

[Anonymous]

I am in agree with the vacume leak, but I have as yet to find it...

Here is some added information to the puzzle.


I re-installed the 8.5 power valve, and the car runs smoother, and has more power for sure.
However it smells worse now.

Since the cold weather has hit, I do have a new symptom. When I come off the freeway, or after running for a few good miles even in 4th gear, come to a stop and it stalls. It simple idles all the way down to 0 and cuts off. Starts back up, running low at 700 rpms and rough, put a little gas which is rough, and it then runs fine off the stop. Stop a few feet down the road and it idles fine. Get back up to speed, in 4th or 5th gear, and stop, it stalls.

This was with the 6.5 power valve, which I replaced today for the original 8.5

Right now it idles pretty well at 1000 rpms, still rough even there, can get that to 900 sometimes it varies up and down right in there... some stops it is 1000 some it is 900, some it goes up and down from 900-1000...

I did some tests today with the vac plugged.
timing on the dial back light to TDC
1000=10 degrees to 0
1500=20 degrees to 0
2000=25 degrees to 0
(I wish I could have gotten 2500 and 3000 rpm readings, but I was alone and I had the car in nuetral, not safe, so I wimped out there...)

when I can get someone to help me, I am going to take advance readings up to 3500, and I am going to do them with the vac plugged and hooked up.

still running warm, and I am thinking I should attempt to pull the carb and manifold in the next week or two and look for leaks...
will I be able to tell by the gasket if it was leaking? I know the exhaust is obvious, what about the manifold?

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Jimbo, now it sounds like your float might be too high, causing excess fuel at idle, and needing you to open the throttle to keep her running. What kind of float do you have? It is possible that you are rich at idle because of the float being too high (or leaking), while you're lean at speed because the jets are too small.
Keep tinkering , you'll get there.

 

[addo]

Certainly doesn't sound overadvanced so far.

 

[Anonymous]

Out of interest, are all your plugs white? If they are, it rules out one intake runner leaking vacuum, the others not. IIRC the 2V intake has a water jacket on the carb base, if you haven't hooked it up to the cooling system, have a check to see if thats your vacuum leak..


Personally, I'm going to echo the EFI call.... Fuel and ignition curves are as far away as your (please wait) fingertips

 

[Anonymous]

Stalled again this morning, seems to be on hard braking in cold temps, my guess is with only 14 inches of vacume I am pulling on the vacume level when I brake coming off the highway, and at stops in town, with the colder weather it may not take it as well as it would in warmer situations. I let off the brake at one stop, and it came back up from diving into the 600 range right up to the 900 idle speed... seems fishy!

I may look into a vacume resevior for the booster.

All of the plugs are white on the tips, black around the threads. Looks like lean or hot to me...

I am looking at the float level too... seems like this could be a culprit, I have never adjusted it.. but I am sure it is not too high, if anything it may be too low, when you look into the sight plug, the level is not high enough to come out of the hole, it is below that level, also would explain the surge and drift in idle.

Another thing, when it does stall, and sometimes when it sits for a minute after stopping it is hard as heck to start... cranks and cranks, then if it fires it runs very low... give it some gas and bang it runs back up... there is also a nasty squealing sound sometimes when you are in this postion of not starting, sounds like the belt, or one of the belt driven deivces is whining only does it when this hard start happens.

I may move it 1/4 turns to see what if any difference that makes... may be too low? not sure, as for the jets I am back to stock, 61 on both, and 8.5 power valve... but according to Mustangaroo's figures on his Holley 500 this may be too small, trouble is I cannot tell very easily if I am over or under.

and one last thing, I am running 93 octane all the time, I am beginning to wonder if I should not try going up and down with the octane level... maybe start by running a tank of 87 octane, if that is worse, I can go back to the 93 or try some boost in the 87 see if that has anything to do with the rough condition...?

When I switched the power valve back on Thanksgiving, the fuel I emptied out of the float boal was crystal clear? not the ususal off yellow color?

 

[BIGREDRASA]

One thing at a time, Jimbo. Change one thing at time. Try the float first. I wouldn't start messing around with octanes until everything else is OK. White plugs do mean lean. A good mixture should give you more of a tan color.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I am only working one thing over at a time... too many changes are not good... makes things harder to find.

I have been down that road before...

 

[CobraSix]

Jim, I only hope that I don't have the same problems you have when I put my Aussie head on in about a month.

Slade