Poor Mileage

PLP6400

Well-known member
I am some what dissapointed with my gas mileage. I feel like I should be getting at least 20+. But it is a little less than 17. The motor is a fresh 40 overbore 1978 200. Cam is an ISKY 256 Super Cam (.450 lift & 256 duration) The head has been milled 60 thousands, Valves are stainless steel, springs are from ISKY for the cam I am running with aluminum retainers. The Log has been modified for the Holley 350 Carb to bolt directly to it. I am running Clifford dual out header to 2" dual exhaust with turbo mufflers. Distributor is Duraspark II with a MSD Box and a Pertronixs 40,000 volt coil. The rear end is a 8" posi with 3.25 gears. Transmission is a T-5 with the .81 overdrive. At freeway speeds I am turning right at 2500 RPM's. Tires are 205/70 14's. I have 1600 miles on the car now and the best mileage has been just under 17 MPG. This is in my 65 Ranchero wich has been completed about 5 months now. I built this car to be my daily driver so it has most of the creature comforts including cruise control, which I use most of the time. I rejetted the carb per Holley's recomendations. I have played with the timing and have it set @ 10 degrees advance. I recently pulled the plugs and they match the picture for perfect firing. There is no smoke from the exhaust. Where I live I don't have what you would call city driving. So I am not sitting at traffic lights. The engine runs fine and has plenty of power with 15" of vacuum at idle. The odometer seems to be accurate per the highway speedometer checks.

Anybody got any ideas or do you think I need to get more miles on it. What really hurts is that my 65 Comet with a built 302 and a 4 speed gets 15 to 16 miles to the gallon without trying for milage and this is driving to the same places as the Ranchero.
 
I'm getting about 16 - 17 in the city and would expect somewhere around 20 on the highway as well. You didn't mention what speed your running? That makes a huge difference in mileage.

I had a 95 Ford Taruas and on a road trip once I ran one leg @ 75mph and another @ 85-90 mph and the difference was arond 5mpg less at the higher speed.
 
15" at idle seems low for such a mild cam. Did you degree the camshaft? What is your cranking compression when you put a gauge on it?
 
When I said freeway speeds I meant that I keep up with traffic which is anywhere from 65 to 75 around here and the tach reads from 2400 to 2600 RPM's.

I did degree the cam when I installed it. I did do a compression test and all cylinders were right at 155. I figured the reason that my compression or vacuum isn't any higher is because I am at 5,000 ft. elevation. I know elevation takes a lot away from a carb. engine. I have driven my Comet to Sacramento, CA several times which is almost sea level and the car will idle at 1,000 RPM's there versus the 650 RPM's at home

Like I said before the car has plenty of power and does not smoke. It will pull all the freeway grades around here in 5th gear using the cruise control. I do have my Ranchero idle set at about 900 RPM's. The reason for that is because of the header I had to move my AC compressor away from the engine which in turn caused the belt to have very little contact with the alternator pulley. So I bought an oversized pulley for the alternator. If I set the idle any lower it won't charge at idle.
 
well that 350 holley is gonna suck down more fuel. my 78 block I just put in had the pistons sitting down .050" of an inch. I noticed in my fairlane if I drove 65-75 I only get about 17-18mpg but if I slow to 55 and follow large trucks for a windbreak I can get 22-23
 
That's a lot of lift for a short cam. I suspect one drain on the power/mileage is actually valve train losses. As you can idle it down slow, I am further guessing that the LSA is compromised for smoother idle at the expense of some upper end. Also, you can't imagine Holley recommending a lean jetting; it's possible that some part of the fuel curve can be improved upon. It would be interesting to see your ignition advance at cruise.

Regards, Adam.
 
Howdy All:

Here are my guesstimate-
* You're probably down on CR slightly for best mileage. .025" of the milling would compensate for the thicker composite head gasket you probably used on re-assembly. The other .035" would raise the stock 8.2:1 factory CR figure about a half a point to 8.7:1. At your elevation you could easily and safely run 9.5:1 CR. The higher CR would help mileage especially.
*You need more initial advance at that elecation. Try setting your initial at 16 and check it out for Knock. If you don't get any in the summer heat with the AC on, try a couple of degrees more. Here in Idaho Falls, I've run as much as 20 degrees on 93 octane gas, in the cool of fall to spring weather.
*What Power valve are you running? Check your vacuum reading at your cruising speed and select a PV setting of about half of the cruise vacuum reading.
*Make sure your accelerator pump contact is set correctly. Make sure to use a pump cam that give no more gas than needed to accelerate smoothly. Tune you low speed air screws for highest vacuum. Make sure your choke is set as lean as possible and still be able to start and drive through the warm up cycle. Make sure there are no leaks anywhere and the float is set properly.

What is the number of your main Jets? At 1,600 miles, you're still breaking in the fresh block rebuild, but you should still get better mileage right now.

Keep us posted on what progress you make.

Adios, David
 
PLP6400, You mentioned that at a lower altitude your idle speed jumped 350 RPM'S. I realize this is with your other vehicle but, When you screw in your idle mixture screws do the rpm's increase & can you screw the screws all the way in & the engine still idles?
If the engine does not stall, you have a blown power valve which will kill your fuel miliage.
Second your cranking compression is lower than it should be, did you deck your block? this camshaft is very mild,your compression should be higher.
As david said you need more initial advance, but what do you have for the centrifugal advance as far as degrees. Start with 14 degrees initial + 11 distributor degrees-which is 22 crankshaft degrees =36 total. You also need weaker than stock springs to get your centrifigul advance in by 2800-3000 rpm's. Also check your vacuum advance, how many degrees do you have in that unit?
Also what size main jets are you running, the 7448-350 holley came with 61 as stock. The accerator pump discharge nozzle is .031 try a .028 at your high altitude, if no hesitaion that will also help your fuel miliage. Use the white pump cam in the #2 position. Keep us informed. William
 
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I am going to give them a try. I have not been able to drive my Ranchero or Comet for over two weeks now. Like the rest of the country we had a lot of moisture in the air. Ours was in the form of snow, about 8 feet total. I have a 4X4 so it's not like I don't have transportation and I just don't feel like shovelling snow. But I do miss driving them.

I did have the block zero decked when I had the engine rebuilt. As far as the Holley Carb, I went by the instructions and decreased the jet size for the elevation. The power valve was the right size for the vacuum I had. I do have the choke set very lean and to compensate for this, I installed a cable throttle control for fast idle on cold mornings.

When I first started driving it my first tank was 9 MPG. The second tank was 11 MPG. Then I rejetted the carb and the next tank was 13 MPG. After that I played around with the timing and Carburator and milage was right at 14 MPG. The next thing I did and it did surprise me, a friend talked me into buying a set of Split Fire Spark plugs. I gapped them at 54 and the mileage went up to almost 17. This was at about 1,200 miles on the car.

In two weeks if weather permits, I am going to visit my dad which will be about an eight hundred mile round trip. I am planning on taking the Ranchero and I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again
Patrick
 
I'm checking your gearing specs. Looks pretty darn high! V8's with the 0.81:1 SROD four speed or 0.79, 0.68 T5 are very economical. My mate had a Chev 283 2-bbl, 350 Holley, with a Toyota Celica 5-speed with 0.86:1 5th and 2.75:1 9" diff in his 2500 pound Holden. He used to get over 30 imperial mpg at 65 mph! If I've read right, you've got the Mustang T5 with a 0.72:1 top, and that means you are running a near stock Ranchero 3.55:1 diff. A/C, power steering. So its got a few power options, but great gearing, especially on the wide open spaces.

I am totally with David and William on this one. If you summed up economy set-ups, it is to have too much advance and too lean at part throttle, then very moderate timing and very rich fuel agumentation under wide open throttle condions. (agumentation = extra gas when really needed).

1. The power valve needs to be changed to a lower number. The carb should run lean all the time, accept when youi stomp on it. Then, the carb should richen up to the fullest extent of the two power valve channel restrictions. These pore raw gasoline into the intake under low vaccum. If you run the stock 10.5 or 8.5 power valve, fuel economy will be worse than with the 4.5 power valve. Remember the rhyme. When the vaccum drops, the power valve pops, and all the champange flows ands your car goes. You need to avoid the action of the power valve to as late as possible. Repeat: The car should be running lean until the pedal is stepped on.

2. The regular vaccum checks and seal of the plugs, Holley's famous leak prone four bolt carb base, the two gromets that cover the two idle jets, the condition of the power valve. It is suggested by most V8 Holley guys that Holleys hould run at 5 to 6 psi. People feel that the Holley is set up for this amount, and why should a good old US carb run on 3 psi like the Europen carbs? Answer is that I've found that in NZ bumpy roads, coomon 12% grades, less than 1200 foot radius bends everyhwere and roads with roughness counts of over 2 times then American roads on the international scale, this creates poor gas mileage. Any rocking motion, and the fuel float just overloads the main jets on a constant basis. On our I6's, unlike Slant sixes and the 240/300, the carbs are the wrong way around. Ford would never make a 2-bbl simultanous carb sit where we place it. Our sixes are worse because the carb is mounted the wrong way around by 90 degrees. The main jet ends up getting exposed at times, and some one decides to jet up becasue of it. Fuel gets heated by the tube headers or heat stove under the carb, and this hurts fuel consumption under fully warmed up driving. Static jetting on a dyno may give 61 or 65, but on the road, you can get away with much less.

Where roads or alignments are bumpy, I prefer to restrict line pressure to a maximum of 3.5 psi, and run the Holley or Summit presure reducer very close to the carby, with a short, large diameter line to the carb.

Unlike a got old 302, our carbs are slung on the side, and pivot up and down about the centre of the engine. Holleys hate being bumped around.

3. Six cylinders have a longer flow path to the outer cylinders than V8's. The 350 is set up for V8 style 2-bbl intkaes, some of which are very well designed. On a six, the squirters can be wound up from the stock 28 to 31. This allows more fuel on acceleration, and allows you to jet back to the more ideal 13 to 14.5:1 under wide open throttle. Outer cylinders run lean, inner ones rich.


4. Advance the cam 2 degrees with an offset key way. 155 psi is too low a compression figure.

5. The standard practice here is to run non extended plugs, wide 50 to 60 thou spark gaps, and a large amount of static advance (9 to 12 degrees is what I've seen here on cross flow and log 250's), with very mild 20 to 25 degrees of advance from the mechanical side. MSD, a good coil. The problem with this is that vaccum advance can add a lot of fuel economy. Everyone wants to avoid the 'big bang' on todays unleaded, so most people drop vacum advance. Our Aussie Bosch Durasparks are not the same as yours. I think the best approach is to run the Duraspark with highly restricted mechanical advance 15 to 20, and another 5 degrees of vaccum advance. Instead, the static timing at 1200 without the vaccum advance hooked up should be about 6 to 9 degrees. This allows the car to reach full advance by about 3200 to 3600 rpm. Wind up the static timing until you get the best second gear acceleration from 30 to 60 mph (on a hill is the best test), and then dial back 1 degree. If you hear knock, wind it back 2 degrees. A lot of fuel can be wasted if the vaccum advance is removed.

Mark top dead centre on the crank, and then 6, 8, 10 and 12. If you can get 14 degrees static advance, then great, but your toital advance then needs to be pegged back. Check the 1200 timing without vac advance, and keep winding it up. This way, you won't over advance. You may find standard timing may be a lot more than what you'd expect, and total advance at 3500 may be up to the ideal 36 to 38 degrees for a well tuned modifed engine.

Hope that helps. Most problems with fuel economy are igniton realted, then vacuum, then power valve.
 
I got very ambitious yesterday. I shoveled the snow so I could get my Ranchero out. I had to dig a path about 6' wide X 20' long X 30" deep. This morning I took Davids advice and set the timing up. Then I hooked up the vacuum gage and I now have 18". When I took the vacuum reading and compresion test last, I only had about 400 miles on the engine. Another thing I remembered is when I first started driving the car, the suspension was very stiff. So I lowered the tire pressure to the 1965 Falcon specs of 24 psi. Today I put 32 psi in them and took it for about a 30 mile drive. Apparently the suspension has loosened up, because it rides nice. I may even try higher pressure to the point where the tires wear funny and then back off to where they don't. Advancing the timing seemed to make the engine rev quicker engine. I will keep you posted on any milage improvements.
 
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