pulley kit

XFlow_Fairlane

XFlow_Fairlane

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I have been kicking around this idea of a few weeks and talked to Mike about it and he gave me the go ahead...

I am going to have some billet pulleys made up for the 200. I was planning on serp belts but not sure what would eb the most popular.

I was looking to replace the damper with a solid pulley that will be two piece (steel hub with a bolt on pulley) trying to make a new damper is out of my ability for now (KISS)

now I don't know if there are many different pulley spacings on the 200 (I have my 62 motor with pulleys on it and a 1980 200 with its pulleys)

so the most basic kit would jsut be a new billet crank pulley and water pump pulley and you will just have to source a alternator pulley (no biggie)

BUT if you are running power steering this will not work so there would need to be a different PS bracket to move the pump forward to clear the wider belt. so I need to know how many people are running PS or plan to run it and the same goes for AC

another option I am looking at is is a full acessory bracket and pulley kit (you supply acessories) I am working on a cnc plasma connection so it would just be spme plasmad out plates that get welded up (AC, ALT, PS)

I will post my crank pulley designs this weekend for comments. I have no idea on pricing as of now but it should be reasonable (material costs look around $60 for a pair of pulleys plus machine time)

all aluminum will be 6061 and will be polished I may look into anodizing though.


I will collect input over the weekend and next week will post a poll with some options in it.

edit: I am also kicking around the idea of making this compatible with a M90 intake for the new head once it comes along if possible
 
the PDF is not working for me.

these would be for flat style modern belts. I could very easily do a underdrive pulley on the crank. I may also build in a 36-1 wheel for people wanting to go EFI/electronic ignition
 
What would be beneficial from us?
water pump measurements?
crank pulley measurements?
verify bolt spacing and thread size/pitch?

I've got a '68 200 sitting on my shop floor, but I dont think it has an alternator on it..

For the pdf, i right clicked and saved the target, then opened it using acrobat reader (not inside IE) and everything worked fine. I had an issue the first time I tried to open it also.

-ron
 
I tried saving an still no worky (file is damaged warning)

well if you could measure the length of your pump to the pulley mount and the depth of the pulley. also note what acessories you are running.

I don't know if I can make a "one size fits all" kit but I will try my best to meet the demands of the majority.

does anyone have any problems with having a solid crank pulley?
 
couldnt u also make an underdrive pully for the water pump and im sure we could find a smaller pully wheel thing for alts
 
I'll check out the pdf file, it's been a while...
I visualized a serpentine pulley kit as a smaller diameter custom serpentine overdrive pulley on the short H2O pump, and a deeply offset bolt-on pulley for the stock damper, such that the serp belt portion fits back over the stock V-groove(s) without touching. The stock damper would still dampen, and the pulleys would be a direct bolt-on. You -need- a damper with an I6. You'd have to use the later damper outer diameter to be universal fitting, with holes drilled for both the 3 and 4 bolt add-a-pulley patterns. There are two H2O pump hieghts. Designing for the short pump covers all applications, as it's a lot easier to add a common fan spacer to the short pump/pulley than have two different custom H2O pulleys.
The kit should be two simple bolt-on pulleys, avoiding the cost of a new damper design. The overdrive H2O pulley would help our cooling "challenged" radiator systems as well.
Rick(wrench)
 
Hmmm... the pdf looks ok. Maybe it's just saved as a newer version than your browser's AR plugin. Anybody else having problems on the site?
Rick
 
I have no cooling isssues at all with my small block radiator.

I thought about a slip fit and the only good solution I can see to maintaining a damper is by having a new pulley turned and bonded in place of the stock pulley. this new pulley would only be a sleeve and could be turned from thickwalled tubing instead.

but I am still open to opinions. like I said I am also looking at my providing accessory brackets also (for modern AC pump) that would clear headers/turbos? and work as a total package. This setup would either be welded up mild steel brackets or billet "plate style" mounting like a march bracket.

I might try and get my concept crank pulley drawn up this evening and post the 3-d rendering of it.
 
The other issue would be the rotation of the water pump. Impellers can be swapped easy enough though, I suppose. You could leave the H2O pulley face smooth then, as it would ride the back of the belt.
I've gotta say the bolt on sleeve pulley idea is the way to go. Your machining costs would be a fraction of a new crank pulley, and you could use aluminum.
A whole new crank pulley would need to be made of iron/steel. A big chunk of it.
The serpentine belt system would be great for adding an M90. If the SC was mounted above the distributor, you could use the stock late model alternator/ac bracket and get a nice long contact surface on the drive pulley, assuming a reverse rotation H2O pump.
Rick(wrench)
 
the one idea I am looking at is moving the pulleys forward a little so that a shallower water pump pulley can be used and then using the same blank for the crank pulley. the crank pulley would need a different pattern drilled in it and a larger center hole but all the turning work would be the same. the blanks would drilled first and then mounted on a "hub" and turned on a lathe.

part of me wanting to get away from the damper is to loose the larger rotational mass of it and go to a one piece lightweight pulley. but who knows maybe the cheapest way is to simpley rebuild a stock damper with a new pulley sleeve on it (remove old v-belt section and have a serp pulley bonded on it)

another option is a core service. I turn down your existing v-belt damper to about half depth so that when the new pulley is bolted on it there will be no over/under drive.

what I am seeing as a basic kit:

alt bracket
water pump pulley
crank pulley (hub and pulley)

user would provide a ALT pulley (off any serp car pretty much or aftermarket AL one....could be optional)


advanced kit

alt/ac bracket (modern compact compressor)
same pulleys as above
idler for between alt and PS (would mount alt lower on the block and route belt up and over idler...pic to follow)
 
ok I dug out my box of pulleys. the 200 pulleys are off 1980-1 fairmont (I think...it was a small bell 200 in a foxbosy with a eo head) it was equiped with AC and PS and a smog pump. it has a 4 bolt 2 groove crank pulley on it and a 3 groove water pump pulley. it was from a wrecked car so I no longer have the bent up PS pump pulley or smog pump. AC compressor was a large york style pump mounting vertical over the alt which was lower than a stock (early) 200 location (was located closer to the crank centerline)

also in the box of pulleys I have a set of pulleys off a 1988 2.3L thunderbird turbocoupe. all serp belts and very similar in sizing to a 200.

then crank pulleys are the same outer diameter but the 2.3L having the thinner belt prob has a larger effective radius (maybe a 1/8" more) it will fit on a 200 crank snout but it is a little sloppy. I don't know if you could have a 200 knirled to clean u pthis fitment or not. the 2.3L crank pulley is shorter so it would have to be spaced out some and the backside turned/polished for the seal to ride on it (2.3L ohc motors have the seal on the crank)

the water pump pulleys also are a damn near swap. bolt pattern and shaft size are the same. the 2.3l OHC pulley is about 3/16-1/4 deeper. the only killer is the 2.3L pulley is larger in diameter. it is about the same size as the 200 crank pulleys. this means a 200 already has the water pump overdriven from the factory. you could easily turn down a 200 crank pulley and fit a serp section off a 2.3L onto it and just tack it in a few places (keeping heat low to prevent burning the rubber)

I have a 36-1 wheel off a Taurus I think it is and it is about the same diameter as the crank pulleys for whatever that is worth.
 
sign me up. I am about to install power steering and have been trying to figure out how to adapt a serpentine system. It's beyond my ability to design, though, so I'd welcome it.
 
Here's how I feel about running a damper vs a hub on our engines to save weight.

Steering shaft - 3/4" tubing, .062 wall
Capri (European) rack & pinion steering - lightest production rack
Magnesium engine mount
Aluminum door hinges
VW aluminum dual master cylinder

Threw out single '66 pulley.
Ran double pulley damper, with no reason to run additional pulley as no accessories are driven off the engine.

New build will use Fisher dynamics balancer, using the damper size and weight of the 350 engine (read cheaper).

Oh yea, old timing chain set will be used on new build.
 
What I was thinking is... if the pulley for the alternator was bigger, the more the alternator would turn with less rotation of the engine. Big pulley on the waterpump, usual size on alternator. Maybe the water pump would have a double pulley, one for balancer, one for alternator. Anyways... basic property of the bigger pulley moving the smaller pulley more. We'd get more power. Right? It's late. I'm tired. I hope you guys can decipher that!
 
turbo_fairlane_200":336841jq said:
do you have any reason for dampers being required on these motors? how many crank failures have you had? vibration issues?
Click to expand...

The double pulley was recommended by Ak Miller. He said it definately made a difference. The heavier weight of the double pulley dampens vibrations better than a single.

I have been able to replace the cranks before they've broken. The crank I was running appears to have cracks and has been retired (can you blame it?).

Before changing to the double pulley main caps were walking, fly wheel bolts were shaking loose, but I also made other changes at the same time. I'm reusing my old timing set because it shows no wear. Can I absolutely prove it helps? No.
 
For the best damper, call ATI.

If you race you will crack/break cranks.

If you want to reduce crank cracks, the first thing to do is grind as much radius as possible into the journals, even if it means grinding past .010.

Second, run the mains as tight as possible. I have ran 6800 rpm 350 cu in SBC engines with cast cranks for four seasons before cracks showed up. This was a 3/8 mile dirt track that was pretty rough and a 3200lb car. Approximately 400hp. I had a couple with cracks at two seasons but remember these were used cranks when prepped and you have no idea what the cranks went thru in their previous life. I usualy set up the mains at .0015 to .002 clearence max. The flexing is the biggest problem, you can only flex a piece of steel or iron so many times before it cracks then breaks. They also twist and the cast cranks seem to resist this twisting better. The damper will help in the control of the twisting.

Drag racing is different but the same guidelines apply. If you have a crankshaft that has no cracks, you should be able to run a full season without breaking it. You should magnaflux it every year.
 
ok I got a couple options right now..

1. resleeve a stock damper. I would supply a new outer ring to have the damper rebuilt with and the other pulleys.

2. turn down (need about 1/2 the pulley grooves turned off) stock pulley with a slip over serp pulley.

3. full custom stock style bonded damper.

4. High performance designed damper

I would like to push the pulleys out slightly from the stock location so that
1. they clear a rear mounted crank wheel
and
2. will give more clearance for the t-stat housing (mikes aussie chrome ones)
 
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