Re-ring sour cylinder?
- Thread starter SoCar72
- Start date
69.5Mav":1ovrgp6v said:
I would see if there is any abnormal wear on the rod bearings, such as being worn in a way which would show the big end of the rod being out of round.
If the wear is uniform its your choice if you want to replace the rod bolts. Remember if you replace the rod bolts you will have to have a machine shop resize the big end of the rods.
The real deal here if you are not going to rev the engine over 4500 rpms & are short of cash i would just leave be.
If you were putting a camshaft other than a stock grind & intended to twist the engine to 5500-6500 rpms, the the ARP rod bolts are a must. Your choice Bill
SoCar72
Well-known member
Just pulled the #2 cylinder. The top ring was garbage, the others looked OK. But looks like I need to replace that piston as well. I won't be able to post a picture until later, the piston material between the expansion ring and the middle ring at the forward "sight window" fell out as 2 pieces basically leaving a section about an 1" long unsupported between those 2 grooves. I suspect it would be unadvisable to just "let it fly" and re-ring the damaged piston and hope for the best. That cylinder wall looks great and the rod bearings show very little wear, no scoring, no copper.
I haven't pulled the other 5 pistons yet, but based on there compression tests, I suspect they should be fine. I'll know more shortly.
The question is, should I just replace the one piston or all 6? They are the stock flat-tops ('62 casting numbers) so I suppose a replacement should match in terms of volume and CR.
Again, this repaired engine will be driven conservatively, likely never going beyond 4000 - 4500rpm and rarely make a road trip of more than a couple of hours, likely to not be modified anymore than bolt on upgrades.
I've heard of "old-schoolers" just replacing one piston when the others checked fine. Thoughts and advice?
I haven't pulled the other 5 pistons yet, but based on there compression tests, I suspect they should be fine. I'll know more shortly.
The question is, should I just replace the one piston or all 6? They are the stock flat-tops ('62 casting numbers) so I suppose a replacement should match in terms of volume and CR.
Again, this repaired engine will be driven conservatively, likely never going beyond 4000 - 4500rpm and rarely make a road trip of more than a couple of hours, likely to not be modified anymore than bolt on upgrades.
I've heard of "old-schoolers" just replacing one piston when the others checked fine. Thoughts and advice?
If the cylinder wall is good than it would be okay to replace the piston with a new or used one try to find a close match. 
SoCar72
Well-known member
RockAuto lists a Sealed Power piston that appears to match my originals : compression height, 0cc flat top, etc:. I did get the other 5 pulled last night and they all look fine, so only #2 is damaged. I looks this candidate should perform like the other stocks. I'll just replace the one. Thanks!
SoCar72
Well-known member
Waiting on the new piston to arrive. I'm hoping for Tuesday.
I have the other 5 cylinders re-rung and re-bearinged. All were showing copper in the upper saddle and a few were showing a little in the lower. Other than that, everything is looking good. Cylinders dressed well. Should get quite some mileage out of her once this is done.
Now to extract the 4 broken oil pan bolts that snapped as I was taking it off.
Incidentally, to those who haven't dropped the oil pan with the engine in the car, remove the sway bar and drop the idler arm of the steering link on the passenger side. You'll have all the room to work that you'll need.
I have the other 5 cylinders re-rung and re-bearinged. All were showing copper in the upper saddle and a few were showing a little in the lower. Other than that, everything is looking good. Cylinders dressed well. Should get quite some mileage out of her once this is done.
Now to extract the 4 broken oil pan bolts that snapped as I was taking it off.
Incidentally, to those who haven't dropped the oil pan with the engine in the car, remove the sway bar and drop the idler arm of the steering link on the passenger side. You'll have all the room to work that you'll need.
I hear the negative responses.
However.
You have a almost 50 year old engine that has gone through a sizeable number of heat cycles.
You have 12 little bolts that all the engine powe passes through.
You have now disterbed those bolt and will have to retorq them.
What happens if just one of them strenches?
Ford is not known for there super strong rod bolts.
The rods are out of the car.
It would be a damn shame if you got it all back together only to have one out of twelve rod bolt let go.
Not saying it will happen just how much would it cost to recover from a busted rod bolt verses how much would it cost to use ARP rod bolts, Mike sells them for $75.00, plus machine shop cost, I really want to know how much machine shop costs run for this.
What ever you decide I wish you good luck.
However.
You have a almost 50 year old engine that has gone through a sizeable number of heat cycles.
You have 12 little bolts that all the engine powe passes through.
You have now disterbed those bolt and will have to retorq them.
What happens if just one of them strenches?
Ford is not known for there super strong rod bolts.
The rods are out of the car.
It would be a damn shame if you got it all back together only to have one out of twelve rod bolt let go.
Not saying it will happen just how much would it cost to recover from a busted rod bolt verses how much would it cost to use ARP rod bolts, Mike sells them for $75.00, plus machine shop cost, I really want to know how much machine shop costs run for this.
What ever you decide I wish you good luck.
8) mav, i understand where you are coming from, but the stock ford rod bolts are stronger than they are given credit for. i rebuilt a 289 and use the same rod bolts, even though i upgrade the cam, intake and exhaust for more power with no issues. as long as the mains and rod bearings are properly lubricated, and as long as the rod bolts are properly torqued, there should be no issues.
SoCar72
Well-known member
Pulling the pin from the old assembly is proving more difficult that I expected. I don't have a dedicated piston pin puller and the ones I've seen online seem a little sketchy. I tried a few improvisational methods to remove the pin from the damaged piston which damaged it further, the piston is trash anyway, I wanted to see what I'm up against. I'm thinking I'm going to need something specialized. What do you guys recommend?
I'm considering purchasing a benchtop hydraulic press, but it seems like a clunky approach.
Looking at photos of piston pin pullers, it looks like I could fabricate one with a hefty rated bolt that will slip through the pin and a short section of pipe that the pin can slip into and pull the pin through as the photos suggest. The repair manual illustrates such as well. Calling around, I haven't found one locally for purchase/rent/loan.
Engine shops are few and far between around here. I'll call around in the morning to see if I can find someone who has such capabilities. But I'm always looking for the "good reason" to add to my collection of tools.
Side note: Motors Manual calls for 19-24ftlbs for the rod bolts. It seemed a little low, but it took about that to break them free. I've torqued them to 24ftlbs.
I'm considering purchasing a benchtop hydraulic press, but it seems like a clunky approach.
Looking at photos of piston pin pullers, it looks like I could fabricate one with a hefty rated bolt that will slip through the pin and a short section of pipe that the pin can slip into and pull the pin through as the photos suggest. The repair manual illustrates such as well. Calling around, I haven't found one locally for purchase/rent/loan.
Engine shops are few and far between around here. I'll call around in the morning to see if I can find someone who has such capabilities. But I'm always looking for the "good reason" to add to my collection of tools.
Side note: Motors Manual calls for 19-24ftlbs for the rod bolts. It seemed a little low, but it took about that to break them free. I've torqued them to 24ftlbs.
SoCar72
Well-known member
Complete success!
I had completed everything I could do Monday while waiting for the replacement piston : re-rung the 5 good pistons and re-bearinged the rods, then bored out and retapped the 4 broken oil pan bolts.
Tuesday, I searched for a shop to press the new pin, only thing I could find was a shop about 20 miles away that wanted "about $50" to do it. Harbor Freight had a 6ton benchtop press for $60, so I went that route. I pressed the old pin out and practiced reassembly to find the least-likely way to damage the new piston. Using a 1/4" thick piece of UHMW worked well between the piston and the press deck, it conformed to and supported the piston without damage. A grade 8, 5/16" flat washer (7/8" dia) worked very well as an "arbor" between the press shaft (about 11/16" dia.) and the pin (.912" dia).
The replacement piston came in midday Wednesday and I jump back into her. I chilled the new pin in the freezer and warmed the small end of the rod on a low temp hot plate, got it not too hot to handle bare handed. The new pin went in with only slightly more effort than extracting the old one. The press was definitely the trick. After working a generous amount oil between the pin and the piston for easier pivoting, I re-installed the assembly with new bearings, buttoned up the engine, refilled the oil pan, and ran a compression check. Understanding that the new rings haven't broken in yet, my check yielded a range from 135psi to 150psi with #2 (formerly at 50psi) being the strongest.
Yesterday I finished off the peripherals and and ran the engine through a heating cycle, shut her down and adjusted the valves for zero lash. Idle oil pressure used to be around 20psi, now she's running 45psi. Took her for a 3 mile test run, accelerating slowly and in steps to 2000, 2500, 2750 rpm's as I was going through the gear changes. She's running a lot stronger, smoother, and crisper than she has since I got her. No signs of any issues nor faults. I'll run another compression test after a few drives for comparison. Looks like she's fixed. :mrgreen:
I had completed everything I could do Monday while waiting for the replacement piston : re-rung the 5 good pistons and re-bearinged the rods, then bored out and retapped the 4 broken oil pan bolts.
Tuesday, I searched for a shop to press the new pin, only thing I could find was a shop about 20 miles away that wanted "about $50" to do it. Harbor Freight had a 6ton benchtop press for $60, so I went that route. I pressed the old pin out and practiced reassembly to find the least-likely way to damage the new piston. Using a 1/4" thick piece of UHMW worked well between the piston and the press deck, it conformed to and supported the piston without damage. A grade 8, 5/16" flat washer (7/8" dia) worked very well as an "arbor" between the press shaft (about 11/16" dia.) and the pin (.912" dia).
The replacement piston came in midday Wednesday and I jump back into her. I chilled the new pin in the freezer and warmed the small end of the rod on a low temp hot plate, got it not too hot to handle bare handed. The new pin went in with only slightly more effort than extracting the old one. The press was definitely the trick. After working a generous amount oil between the pin and the piston for easier pivoting, I re-installed the assembly with new bearings, buttoned up the engine, refilled the oil pan, and ran a compression check. Understanding that the new rings haven't broken in yet, my check yielded a range from 135psi to 150psi with #2 (formerly at 50psi) being the strongest.
Yesterday I finished off the peripherals and and ran the engine through a heating cycle, shut her down and adjusted the valves for zero lash. Idle oil pressure used to be around 20psi, now she's running 45psi. Took her for a 3 mile test run, accelerating slowly and in steps to 2000, 2500, 2750 rpm's as I was going through the gear changes. She's running a lot stronger, smoother, and crisper than she has since I got her. No signs of any issues nor faults. I'll run another compression test after a few drives for comparison. Looks like she's fixed. :mrgreen:
great job glad to hear it's running so much better!
SoCar72
Well-known member
Thanks to you guys for your advice and tips. Knowing, rather than supposing, that others have done this on their own in the past at their own homes with basic tools (meaning not having a full engine machine shop at your disposal) is quite a confidence booster.
To you guys...
To you guys...
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