Rebuild first start couple issues

[62 Comet]

After a couple wiring hiccups I got the engine running ran for about a min and shut her down

Oil pressure was hangin out in mid-upper 50 psi range at 2 grand area, using brad penn 30 weight break in oil, good right?

Next thing was interesting, were certain that the starter was stuck on the entire time but exhaust was covering it up till I let up to idle for sec and then we knew something was up so we killed it, did some wiring checking, in another thread we talked about ignition wiring. The one thing was running a wire from the S terminal to the + on coil for full voltage on start. With the ignition on this wire is giving the S terminal 5.5 volts and there is 0.11 V at the terminal going to the starter, is this causing some issues with the starter? The starter wining is a pretty distinct noise so I hoping/praying that's what it was.

Lee

 

[bubba22349]

congrats that's great oil pressure! Sounds like your getting a back feed, there should be no voltage there unless the ignition switch his turned to the start position. A few questions is the wire harness in good condition? Is the solenoid good condition and not sticking? You can try tapping on the solenoid lightly to see if it releases. Is the ignition switch still good? i.e. The switch should have a nice and tight feel between the run and start positions. If the switch is worn a lot then it can feel sloppy with lots of play, or also stick between the contacts and or not make good connections. You can feel if the switch is worn out and not holding in the different positions (sticks in between etc.) when you turn it to start position and release it should spring back to run position. If you want to do your engine break in as a temp measure after you get it started pull the wire to S thermal that should stop the back feed to starter until you get it figured out. Good luck

 

[62 Comet]

congrats that's great oil pressure! Sounds like your getting a back feed, there should be no voltage there unless the ignition switch his turned to the start position. A few questions is the wire harness in good condition? Is the solenoid good condition and not sticking? You can try tapping on the solenoid lightly to see if it releases. Is the ignition switch still good? i.e. The switch should have a nice and tight feel between the run and start positions. If the switch is worn a lot then it can feel sloppy with lots of play, or also stick between the contacts and or not make good connections. You can feel if the switch is worn out and not holding in the different positions (sticks in between etc.) when you turn it to start position and release it should spring back to run position. If you want to do your engine break in as a temp measure after you get it started pull the wire to S thermal that should stop the back feed to starter until you get it figured out. Good luck

K just to refresh, I took a wire put it right on the S terminal routed it around and put the other end right on the + of the coil. So there is 3 eyes on the + of the coil, the 12V start, 5.5 volt run and one from the module.

I was thinking when the 12V start wire turns off and the voltage from the resistor takes over, the power is going to the coil and back feeding through that wire to the solenoid possibly causing starter to stick, im thinking I didn't do something right there?

The ignition by no means feels new but definitely there is good resistance and clicks between each spot. I personally would dimiss that, the solenoid makes a nice loud click but if it fully open/close Ill unplug that wire at the S term and see if it makes the voltage at the starter term go away. Just felt the starter and she was fairly hot some time after we quit, maybe 20-30 min

K, so I unplugged that wire I have going to the S term. and at the S term there was 0.03V and something similar at the starter term I cant recall even though I just checked :roll: There should be no power to these at the ON position right?

The way I have it now am I able to prevent the 5-6V from the resistor going to the coil and tracing back to the solenoid through that 12V start wire.

Yet another test showed, that when ignition turned to start my wire coming directly from the S terminal showed only 10V maybe slightly over, I did this test yesterday but some reason thought nothing of it.

 

[bubba22349]

Ok There should only be 2 wires going to the + pos. side of the coil! Let's start over, First the # 1 terminal of the ECU (blue / yellow) should go to the input side (front side right or left it doesn't mater) of the resistor along with the 12 volt wire from the run position of the ignition switch (blue). You should read 12volts on this side of the resistor (input side). Next on the out put side of the resistor (or the opposite side of the resistor) a wire then goes to connect to the + of the coil this gives you the 5.5 to 8 volts in the run position of the ignition switch. The second wire is the one from the S terminal of the solenoid or the start position of the ignition switch, this gives you the 12 volts for starting purposes only. Connected like that there should not be any back feed voltage to the solenoid. The #2 terminal of the ECU (black wire) goes to the - side of the coil. The #3 terminal of the ECU is not used. The #4 and #5 terminals hook to the DSII distributor leads. That is low on the voltage reading to sol. test the battery voltage at the posts to see if you are starting out with a full charged battery should read over 12 (up to 13.8 volts when fully charged) next make sure you have good clean and tight connections on the battery cables also check that you have good ground paths i.e. The battery - cable is connected to the engine block tight free of paint, rust, grease etc. next hook up a ground from the engine block to the chassis and or the body too. You could also try an experiment without that extra wire hooked up to the S terminal and find that it may not need it for starting. Good luck

 

[62 Comet]

Ok, I get ya, the diagram from the dnya mod kit shows the blue/yellow going right on the + of the coil, but even if that wire goes at the input of the resistor that bit of tweaking should keep it from backfeeding, ? I'll try splicing into the lines just like in MustangSix's diagram in the other thread.? I guess im trying to follow the wiring of two different diagrams

This battery hasn't been used daily for a year just trickle charge with a solar panel so 12.4V is what its at so its definitely not at full capacity, basically just keeps it alive.

Ive got my ground wire for the battery hooked in to one of the bolts for the motor mount going into the block ill clean that up more, Going from that to chassis definitely wouldn't hurt either.

 

[bubba22349]

Ok Yes only use one wiring diagram or the other the one with kit doesn't show the extra wire for the full 12 volt starting circuit so I don't know what they recommend for that maybe there is more details or written instructions too or it's not used? I can see the details of MustangSix diagram, its a clearer picture then the other copy so sorry if it's getting confusing. After a couple minor tweaks and I think you will be real close now so keep up the good work, good luck

 

[62 Comet]

Ill for sure giveit a try today, and the written part that comes with it doesn't go into a whole lot of detail either. I may try without the 12V start, but I still have to finish break in so I doent want to be turning it over by key very much, cause I already have done more than Im comfortable with when we first tried and I had a simple wiring issue inside the car, the kind you feel like an idiot about

Although, I believe I stabbed the dizzy in right as it readily starts and sounds good, so I was happy about that :mrgreen:


Thanks, Lee

 

[62 Comet]

So I did the wiring just like MustangSix diagram, same sad story. But I did read in the instructions that were provided with the module and they did state that the resistor is there to prevent damage to the coil and module during prolonged running. So Ill go back to their diagram, but the coil obviously needs power during 'START' so I will be putting a diode in the 12V start line I have, to act as a check valve for there so the ~6V doesn't back feed to the solenoid and mess with the starter, which im hoping survived the ~1min at 2 grand There was some knocking noises which caused me to instinctly let up and then the familiar whining plus other sounds then I got real bummed out, crap!

I see no reason for it to be anything else, had great oil pressure and after shutting down and sitting for a few minutes the temp had climbed up kissing 130, using distilled water ( cleaner if anything needs to be done or goes wrong) and not quite full yet which I topped up with another liter after it cooled down, I drilled a hole in the tstat just to make things easier in that department.

Another thing I wanted to ask, will Rotella T 15w40 be alright to use after break in? I have a few gallons right now which I used in the old engine and also in lawn equipment so I was hoping I could use that. A lot cheaper to buy 5 GAL at time, at least here anyway

Lee

 

[bubba22349]

Ok if you use the diode then you could try it out on the I terminal of the Solenoid like Ford did originally. It's frustrating sometimes how little things cause big problems, been chasing some electrical and starter problems on my tractor this weekend too. What kind of bearing clearances did you end up with on the rebuilt bottom end? Rotella is a great oil and I would think the 15 W 40 is probably ok to use in it. In the old days on a fresh engine I would use straight 30W with stock clearances in the SoCal area where the weather ranged from the high 30's to 100+.

 

[MustangSix]

I looked at your orange wire and what that will do is to send voltage to the solenoid every time you turn the ignition on. It may not be enough to engage the solenoid, but it might be enough to hold it once you hit the start circuit.

Also, you may not need the ballast if you still have the stock pink resistor wire in your ignition circuit. If you do, adding a ballast drops the voltage so low that the module may not operate.

First thing you need to do is determine if that resistance is still in your ignition circuit. If it is, you'll have to replace it with regular wire, or find another 12V source.

First, take the orange wire off. Not necessarily needed. Second, check the voltage at the ignition ON hot wire that you have going to the ballast. If it reads 9V or less, you probably have a resistance wire.

Let us know and we'll help you figure out what to do next.

 

[62 Comet]

Ive got 12.4 volts at the female wire connector that I am putting onto the resistor input, and 5.6 volts output. Orange wire is off, but wont the coil need power during start?

I just spliced into the wire going to my voltmeter, for that I just found any ol 12V switched wire, put a 10amp fuse inline and called it good.

I cut and capped the ends of the pink wire under the dash and removed the wire going to the I terminal

Here the diagram again..

http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/mercu ... 1.jpg.html

 

[MustangSix]

I think the diagram they provided is flawed. The ignition module should be powered directly from a 12V IGN ON source. Here's what I would do:

1. Remove the blue wire from the coil and tie it to the 12V IGN ON feed at one end of the ballast - this will send a full 12V to the module.

2. From the other side of the ballast, run a wire to the (+) side of the coil.

3. Run the black wire to (-).

4. Eliminate the orange wire. The way you have it hooked up this may be providing enough juice to keep the solenoid engaged.

 

[62 Comet]

Does the coil need power while ignition is at start? I thought it did

 

[MustangSix]

It gets power thru the ballast.

 

[62 Comet]

Are there any wires that have 12V during run and start positions? Cause the one Im using now doesn't have power while ignition is at start position.

Ok so I took out the light switch and the only one I could find live at both positions was fuse with a yellow wire on one side and a green-yellow wire on the other, but its also live with key in off position too, these sound familiar to anyone?

 

[MustangSix]

If your solenoid has an "I" terminal, that will give you power when you turn the key to crank. You could wire that to the coil (+).

Problem is,if the other wire isn't hot while cranking the module isn't powered and won't do anything. If it's coming off the switch, it should be hot, though.

 

[62 Comet]

Went ahead and attempted the break in, about a minute in it starting a tapping noise but I just kept going, 15 min in it had got a bit louder so I killed it.

Checked out the rockers and I found one with a little play in it, Ive still got to turn it over a bit to check a couple others. Is there a specific valve lash? I just snugged them up.

My question is, can these make quite a racket, almost like sticking a pen or something into a fan, when you can grab them and make them rock a little? Im hoping this all the noise is, anything else capable of making that noise?

It was quiet for a short bit at first then it started, 45psi oil after 15min. at 2000-2200

 

[62 Comet]

Just looked on CI and seen the how to for adjusting valves and I didnt do it properly, I snugged them to not spin but didnt do the half turn for proper pre load...

Think that may be the source?

 

[bubba22349]

Yep

 

[62 Comet]

I did the proper pre load, seemed quieter now, but still there and that bothers me, Ill have another go at it, knowing myself I probably missed one by quick glancing at the page and did one that I wasn't supposed to do at that time.

will update later

So I got cover off and guess what, put the dunce cap on me cause here we go, the new adjustable rockers are hitting the valve cover rather the pan like things underneath the pcv and oil fill cap, should've been first suspect.. but at least it got me to adjust my valves properly, although embarrassing some good came out of it

Thanks guys