Slow as a dog, accelerates like a dead fish.

[TucsonHooligan]

Jackson. Old Hickory. Tough as nails. Ok, I got the timing light and will check it and let you guys know. I think the brakes may be dragging. Sound strange? It seems like I barley have to touch them to activate them and I slow from a coast much faster than I should. Also, theres a weird smell coming from them, like they're burning. Has anyone ever had this problem?

 

[Bort62]

Jackson. Old Hickory. Tough as nails. Ok, I got the timing light and will check it and let you guys know. I think the brakes may be dragging. Sound strange? It seems like I barley have to touch them to activate them and I slow from a coast much faster than I should. Also, theres a weird smell coming from them, like they're burning. Has anyone ever had this problem?

That problem is actually fairly common...

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Whats the cure?

 

[Bort62]

Whats the cure?

Fix your brakes?

Jack the car up one wheel at a time and see if that wheel's brakes are dragging. If so, pop the drum off and see what is sticking about them.

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Ordered all the stuff to do it this friday. What I meant was, is there a short term fix for it that'll hold me till then?

 

[Bort62]

Ordered all the stuff to do it this friday. What I meant was, is there a short term fix for it that'll hold me till then?

Whack em with a sledgehammer ?

Figure out which wheel it is and then spray the pads w/ WD40 ?

I don't know. Take it apart and see what's sticking. Not much your gonna do about it short of that.

 

[page62]

Okay. Hold the phone, everyone!!!

You need some basic knowledge. Buy yourself a factory manual for your car. Now. It does a great job of outlining these procedures step-by-step for the average user. Like you and me.

I got mine from these folks: http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/ They also sell on ebay.

 

[mugsy]

I had a similar problem and it ended up being the throttle linkage, it wasn't opening up the throttle plate a full 90 degrees. Its an easy check, first make sure the carb is warmed and the choke it full open. Choke is the plate on the very top of the carb. Then either have a friend or somehow press the gas pedal to the floor and keep it there. A cinder block will work for this too. Then look down the throat of the carb; the round throttle plate should be 90 degrees to the intake (or you should see the edge of the throttle plate).

Besides brakes, static timing you'll also want to check the dwell of the points. I don't think it would cause all your problem, but it is a critical parameter to a well functioning engine (don't ask me how I know )

 

[Eric Rose]

If you can go with Duraspark and a leter model carb, I would suggest that. Your motor might have the smaller distributor hole, and the carb base may not match the later carbs. I'm unsure when it comes to the smaller motors.

Also, when you check the timing, if the timing mark won't stay still you might have a stretched timing chain. That could possibly effect things enough to make it sluggish.

Also, check your plugs and make sure they are gapped correctly and they are burning good (tan in color). These motors like the regular motorcraft copper plugs from what I have seen.

 

[jamyers]

Okay. Hold the phone, everyone!!!

You need some basic knowledge. Buy yourself a factory manual for your car. Now. It does a great job of outlining these procedures step-by-step for the average user. Like you and me.

I got mine from these folks: http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/ They also sell on ebay.

Amen, and AMEN! Get a Chassis Repair Manual, it's the best $30 or so bucks you'll EVER spend on your car.

...Then either have a friend or somehow press the gas pedal to the floor and keep it there. A cinder block will work for this too.

(That's with the engine OFF, right? )

Seriously, I'd start with the basics:
Get a Manual
Basic brake inspection
Basic tuneup (ignition FIRST, then carb)

Take your time, and be picky about checking things - the devil is in the details.

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Have a manual, I swear. Just not familiar with all this. I hooked up the timing light, set my timing at 10 degrees before TDC. The second I hooked the vacuum line, it advanced 14 degrees. I brought the idle down and tried to find a happy medium, but then when I put it into gear, it stalled out from the low idle. So i set the idle with it in gear, but it still seems to advance to full as soon as I hook the vacuum line up. Any ideas?

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Just though of this. Could the return springs in the crap o matic be worn and need replacement?

 

[addo]

Have you read through the L-O-M sticky in this sub-forum?

You set the timing correctly, however, kerb idle speed is set in Drive, with a load on the electrical system (demister fan, wipers, high beams, radio, blinkers all running). For manual transmissions, retain the electrical load and set the idle in neutral.

A Duraspark may be fitted to the early, smaller shaft blocks. It just requires a little machine work and a replacement oil pump.

 

[Bort62]

The timing should advance when you hook up the vacuum line. That sounds like things are generally working properly.

Did you try driving w/ the base timing set to 10* ?

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Yeah, but should the timing advance all t he way at idle? Thats leaves it nowhere to go once you hit the gas. I think brake drag has everything to do with my speed. I can let off the gas and coast to a stop. With my foot off the brake pedal and the car in drive, it sits still. I'm doing the brakes on friday, we'll see if that helps.

 

[66 Fastback]

Yeah, but should the timing advance all t he way at idle? Thats leaves it nowhere to go once you hit the gas.

With the Load-a-matic, that 14 degrees would not be full advance. The Load-a-matic gets ported vacuum at idle, so it is not recieving the maximum vacuum signal. At highway speed, the spark control valve shifts and the venturi vacuum helps to futher advance the timing of Load-a-Matic.

I am not sure about '64's, but on my '66, there is a hex plug in the intake manifold below the carb. I would get a vacuum gauge and connect it to the manifold vacuum and see what kind of engine vacuum you are getting at a steady idle. You might adjust the timing to the point that you get maximum engine vacuum and then reset the idle speed.

If after you set the timing properly, the car still does not run properly, you might want to verify that the harmonic balancer has not slipped. The outer ring that has the timing mark on it can disbond from the hub of the balancer and the ring can slip on these 40 year old balancers. To check this, you would need to pull #1 spark plug and bring the engine to TDC, confirming that it is TDC of the compression stroke. The rotor on the distributor should be pointing near the #1 tower on the cap. If it does not line up or if the #1 piston is not at TDC when the timing mark and the timing tab are lined up, then your balancer may have slipped and you may need to replace the balancer. Until you get it replaced, you can time it by ear and maximum manifold vacuum.

After having said all this, I would first do some easy troubleshooting that might uncover other causes. As previously mentioned, get the brakes fixed and also verify that the carb throttle plates are openning fully when the pedal is fully depressed. Also make sure that the choke plate is fully open when the engine is warmed up. Pull the spark plugs and see if they are very fouled, maybe you have a rich mixture that is limiting power. Disconnect the vacuum line to the distributor at the carb end and suck on the line. Does the vac line or fittings have any leaks? Does the vacuum cannister on the distributor hold the vacuum and not leak off? If so, that would be a source of low power since the engine would not see full timing advance.
Doug

 

[jamyers]

Have a manual, I swear. Just not familiar with all this. I hooked up the timing light, set my timing at 10 degrees before TDC. The second I hooked the vacuum line, it advanced 14 degrees. I brought the idle down and tried to find a happy medium, but then when I put it into gear, it stalled out from the low idle. So i set the idle with it in gear, but it still seems to advance to full as soon as I hook the vacuum line up. Any ideas?

It's supposed to advance the timing with the vacuum advance hooked up, although 14 more degrees seems a bit much offhand. Here are the advance specs from my '62 manual, shouldn't be too different from yours;
NOTE: this is all on a test stand at different distributor (half engine) rpm and vacuum levels, and I'm not sure why the different rpms, since there's no centrifugal advance, but ok...

144 and 170 engines w/ automatic transmission
650 RPM and .35 inches mercury = 0 degrees advance
900 RPM and .76 inches mercury = .75-1.75 degrees advance
1250 RPM and 1.4 inches mercury = 4-5 degrees advance
2000 RPM and 3.0 inches mercury = 8.5-9.75 degrees advance
Max advance limit = 11.75 degrees at 10 inches mercury

That's not a lot of vacuum being applied, but then these are test specs and not what the dizzy sees in operation. You could test these numbers by applying the vacuum levels and revving the engine to 2X the indicated rpm, just to see if you're in the ballpark.

Rarely do the dizzy springs 'wear out' more often the insides of the dizzy get gummed up and start sticking, or the baseplate wears and then you get all sorts of wierd points-gap and advance stuff happening. I'd pull the dizzy, take it apart according to your manual, and give it a good cleaning / lube by the book.

 

[jamyers]

Yeah, but should the timing advance all t he way at idle? Thats leaves it nowhere to go once you hit the gas. I think brake drag has everything to do with my speed. I can let off the gas and coast to a stop. With my foot off the brake pedal and the car in drive, it sits still. I'm doing the brakes on friday, we'll see if that helps.

The vacuum advance sounds like it's doing its thing - when you hit the gas, it actually goes away - which is why they used to refer to it as an 'ignition retard device'.

Also sounds like your brakes are sticking something awful. Before you tear into the engine, I'd tear into the brakes.

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Thanks. No leaks on the vacuum line and the diaphram is in good working order, it holds the pressure and doesn't bleed off. I'll check the harmonic balancer today after I get home and see what I can figure out. I'll get a vacuum tester as well and see if those numbers are similar. Off topic, but where do I find the air pressure release valve (or whatever its called) on a 1970 C4 transmission? Whenever the pressure builds up, the tranny oil forces itself out of the dipstick/filler tube. I'm leaving unsightly puddles and having to fill it too often.

 

[LaGrasta]

Wow, this post is getting long, and fast. One more thing I thought of. Be sure the choke is completely open when you don't need it. You could be suffocating the carb. That would account for poor high speeds.