small rebuiling a 200 cid 1981 engine

[canvaspaul]

Hello guy's

I bought a small block with automatic transmission. The same engine i have in my mustang.
Like to bring it back to live, but stumble on a few problems.
First a few picture from the complete engine.

Want to run the engine outside the car without transmission.
So i take off the transmission in the understanding the flywheel balance wheel(flexplate don't know the correct name)will stay in place, that's correct but a big part of the transmission is still on the main shaft.
Now my plan is to take of the big belthouse from the tranmission and place it back over the big black thing. In this way i can mount the starter also back in place.
but can i run the engine in this way??? do i damage something?
Because the black device is only supported by the main shaft and not in the belt-house any more.
I tough the tooth wheel will stay in place for the starter only, ore must I attach the complete transmission back to the engine again in order to run it.
Hope you can help me.

Thank you.

With kind regards Paul.

 

[xctasy]

From 1978 to 1983, Fox bodies had listed five different 3.3 I-6 auto transmissons:-
C3 with 138 teeth flexplate (1979 to 1983, example would be IJ 204 engine sticker), Engine code T (79-80), B(81-82) or X(83), Made in France
C4 with 136 teeth detachable ring gear flexplate (high mount, 1978-1982), Engine code T (78-80), B(81-82) or X(83), Case fill
C4 with 164 teeth bellhousing (low mount, 1981-1982, example would be CJ 232 AB engine sticker on rocker), Engine code B, Case fill ON I6's
C5 with 164 teeth bellhousing (low mount, 1982-1983, example would be CJ 232 AB engine sticker on rocker), Engine Code B for 82, X for 83.Case fill on I6's
NB// A C5 is not a 1965 trans, but an E2 trans with truck C4 or Cleveland 351 style bellhousing.


Your lucky, it lookes like the common as french fries C4 with 136 teeth detachable ring gear flexplate (high mount, 1978-1982), Engine code T (78-80), B(81-82) or X(83).

The details are the flexplate unbolts from the combined ring gear and converter. 62Ranchero200, posted these photo's when removing his 1980 Fairmont engine from his 1962 Falcon

 

[xctasy]

Want to run the engine outside the car without transmission....
Hope you can help me.

Thank you.

With kind regards Paul.

You cannot run the C4 equiped US 200 without a ring gear and converter attached to the flexplate, as the starter will not have anything to link do.

Unless you can fill the converter with A.T.F., and glue a polythene cap over the convertor stator, the converter intenals will free wheel and get damaged

 

[xctasy]

The plastic cup I use is an inch high by 2 inch wide (2,54 cm high, Ø diameter= 5,08 cm) and its fits my AOD torque converter just fine. It's an A-2 cap fom the brilliant Alliance Plastics Company Erie, Pasadena. I'm not sure where its listed in the catalogue, though

http://www.alliance-express.com/




I'm going to the AOD with 2350 torque converter and SilverFox valve body, but I use the French Bordeux C3 myself, just requires the correct 138 tooth flexplate, and the US 1979-1983 high mount I6 Bellhousing and the right starter motor. My C3 equiped 1981 engine has the high mount E1BF-11131-BA 1981 starter. It is very squat and fat, but shorter than the 1960 to 1980 versions, with the squat 2.85" long snout. People say they are not as good as the C4. I've had three of them in Taunus 2000, 2300's and now one in my 3.3 Stang, and they are cheap, light and simple.

It's taken me all over the south island of new zealand, from the west coast in Fijorland to the eastern sea board in mine. I've 10 000 hard KM's on it in the last 2 years, all of it in hilly terrain, and all of it well worked. I get 14 liters per 100km on the open road, down to 20 litres per 100 km around town.

 

[canvaspaul]

Hello Xctase

Thank you for the very detailed info, you are correct i have to leave the converter on to the engine and need the belt house for supporting the starter.
The easiest way is the that I put the complete transmission and fill it up with the costly ATF oil. In this way I will damage nothing.
But have to make a bigger table to support engine with transmission.
Nice care you have and also a very beautiful landscape to drive tru, in the Netherlands its alomst complete flate.
The consumption from gas is about the same as you have, don't thick it can be much better.

With kind regards Paul

 

[xctasy]

Are you on LP gas (propane?) I got about 125 rear wheel hp from my 4.1 Falcon. It used a cross flow version of the great US 250 engine

If you want to know how, just look and see the Impco CA 300 346 CFM carb, the Type L 325 hp converter, and both it and my 2,3 liter Turbo V6 Cortina with IHI 5B turbo used the same gas setup. I'm going back to propane on my Mustang. If you want a kit that allows propane and port gasoline injection, I'm building something for my Mustang that does that.







I loved my old Falcon, but we bought a new house and had to consolodate for seven years before I could get another I6. I do 18468 kilomters a year just doing highway auditing, and a planned 60000 a year with road roughness.

Its a lot of travel, so I've decided to get a donut (Toroidal) 58 liter 240mm x 650mm propane tank

where the 220/55 390 goes, and add a Glenns Performance 22 US GAL ( 83 liter) drop tank

That should allow me 46 liters of LP Gas and 83 liters of gasoline (12.2+22 us gallons, enough for 680 miles at 20 US mpg.

My bench mark has been my favorite Dane, Akton Moeller, or Ak Miller, famous as a leading light in propane conversion.


His 1980 to 1984 Propane 2.3, 4.2, 5.0 and turbo 5.8 conversions on Capris, Mustangs and Fairmonts were an inspiration to me.
I've copied lots of his systems, but my car is full of road roughness gear, and the donut tank and another fuel hatch will have to do.



http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... 007&page=3

 

[canvaspaul]

Yes, built in a LPG installation last summer just to see how the car will run on it.
Gas millage is the same as on gasoline (95) but LPG is 75 euro cent( 1liter) against the 183 eurocent for 95 Gasoline.
Have also a donut gastank (54l), I use a oldskool LPG instalation (venturi) OMVL.

http://www.lpgonderdelenshop.nl/epa...th=/Shops/61481037/Categories/Verdampers/OMVL

Will make some picture and post it.

Like to see how you manage the injection.

Gr Paul.

 

[canvaspaul]

LPG installation

http://sdrv.ms/PEPztX

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=9EFCDB23D484728D!424&authkey=!AL95oz8IalvVnbw

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=9EFCDB23D484728D!423&authkey=!AMPPHFUiDKg_9VA

 

[xctasy]

Neat stuff. Since I'd already read Jay Storers Propane Performance book, and had understood how the Fox body AME conversions for his I4, I6, V6 and V8 engines worked, I was sold on Impco. I had Landi Hartog till 1996, then went to Impco in my family Falcon for the next seven years, and on my Turbo Cortina in 2001.

Impco have better PS and kgM readings, but unlike all European systems, they take a while for the gas to flow from a cold start. The newer OMVL stuff is better for small I6's, the largerI6's better with Impco.


Our Aussie guys, Danielson and 73GreenMachine have been doing all number of LPG conversion since the begining of the forum using single CA 300 432 CFM carbs on 2-bbl adaptors like mine on there log head engines since the 2002. This twin CA 225 with two 329 cfm carbs and CI head is good for 240 horsepower on propane.


See Danielson
This is very much like what I did back in 1996, only he has done it with a log head engine. Mine will look like his.



and 73GreenMachine His latest build





I started with cross flow engines, so doing th log lpg conversions is just a case of getting the intake to flow liters per secon of air just like a cross flow head, so you've got to somhow improve flow from the 100 to 128 cfm of the stock log to the 145 cfm of a stock cross flow. Stock 2V's flow better than cross flows, the CI head flows better than a GT40 302 or 351C 2v head.




Its pretty much the X-Flow system above, but reworked with a smaller Rochester throttle body, and fitted on to the iron log head, with Bosch injectors.

The Twinductor kit is LP Gas carb, and gasoline injection,duel fuel. Twinductoruses:-

One of the heated plastic adaptor Rochester 2CG carb throttle bodies placed backwards on the 1-bbl adaptor.
On top of that goes

One the CA 300 A5 mixer, an Impco recomended GM TPS, and the Lokar throttle/cable kick down is used.

Six port fuel injectors using a Nissan VG30E/L24-26-28 split fuel rail to six Type 2 injectors.

It runs off the early EEC4 Ford 88-92 3.9/92-98 4.0/86-93 4.1 port injection computer, so its mapped to 186, 198, or 164 PS. (I'm looking at the 205 hp EEC5 Explorer computer conversion, with full EDIS igntion, but I have to copy the Australian LPG fuel map for the 2002 LP Gas Falcon, so its a full reprogram).


The kit was sparked into life when drag-200stang devised this

When Lincs 200 came up with a Sidewinder external ducting to the out log like this,

,

I knew I could put a 2-bbl on the log and get it flowing well enough for port EFI.

 

[xctasy]

See Danielson
This is very much like what I did back in 1996, only he has done it with a log head engine. Mine will look like his.

 

[xctasy]

And here is my version in alloy.





Im using a Twin log with two 'thimbles" which will be slotted forwards and back in each runner, allowing the log head to function like a dual plane 2 barrel.


And for injection, each group of three injectors can be seperated like on a Cologne V6, so I'll use drag-200stangs set up,



with a narrow Rochester throttle body where the 1-bbl normally hangs out

 

[chad]

I think the name is Travis (Black) has had the i6 Bronco on 'paine for 10 yrs using the impco equip as he sez it's the easiest conversion.
Lemmie know if interested in a contact address (email).
He brings it to alot of the central east coast bronco events (a N. Carolina based resident?)

 

[canvaspaul]

He Guy's.

I see that you are much more professional then me, nice set-up.
For me (indeed on a small 6) this gas installation works fine, I'll will not have any more power with this set-up (even a little bit less) than running on gasoline.
But I use the car only for cruising so I'm fine with it.

Another question is.

because I will run the engine outside the engine bay I must make the electronic also.

The engine was not complete so I have ordered new stuff.

Alternator, regulator, coil, starter solenoid, ECU module,

Found this scheme on the net, but with a few difference if I look to my set-up in the mustang.

my car has not connected the field, but on the new alternator the field is present.
Must I connect it?
Red go's back to the battery for recharging (13,8v) and white go's to ??? yellow 12volt

also on this scheme i find a small difference.

The black, violet and orange go direct to the distribute,
C1 - A1
C2 - A2
C3 - A3
C4 is coming from the coil.

If you follow the Yellow cable (I have a red cable on the coil) it will go to the starter solenoid.
but just before there is a splice, correct me if I'm wrong.
This is if I start the engine the coil gets 12v and if stop cranking the volt drops to 8 volts?
Is this correct?

Thanks.

Gr Paul

 

[xctasy]

The right one is the 1982 version which has the 1979-1982 3.3 Duraspark. Six cylinder one is found in the http://www.mc-machine.com/pdf/1982.pdf, Page 3 of 12

I don't know if this helps a lot. I can check my 1981, but it'll take a few days.

(http://www.mc-machine.com/pdf/1981.pdf Page 3 of 12 is wrong in that it only includes the 2.3 Lima 4, the 4.2 Windsor v8, and the 2.8 Cologne V6).

 

[canvaspaul]

You are correct, '82 handles the 3.3 6cilinder.
Strange because I have a 81 engine in my car also.
If I look under the hood the 2 drawings are almost correct, except for the small difference I wrote.
I'm not in a hurry, so if you find next period some time to check (compare) my drawings under you're hood with colours, probably I can use this drawing then as guideline.
Gr Paul

 

[xctasy]

Love the neat donut tank, and tidy engine bay! I ran the same mixer and vaporiser set up in my Falcon before 1995.



I'll take some photos this weekend; mine isn't as nice as yours


:roll: :roll: I flattened my two batteries a few days ago, left the lights on four 9 hours, so I have my car parked at the Rest Home I work at. I'm bussy recharging the batteries at the moment. :x :x


I've gotta redo the front guards, the indicator light, fit up another TRX hub cap, and lots of little stuff this weekend

 

[bubba22349]

my car has not connected the field, but on the new alternator the field is present.
Must I connect it?
Red go's back to the battery for recharging (13,8v) and white go's to ??? yellow 12volt

If you don't have the factory engine harness to use and your making up your own than it's better to also hook up the field. Correct Red to battery or to battery side of starter solenoid. The white wire would have gone to the dash light (in the gauge panel) for a charge indicator.

If you follow the Yellow cable (I have a red cable on the coil) it will go to the starter solenoid.
but just before there is a splice, correct me if I'm wrong.
This is if I start the engine the coil gets 12v and if stop cranking the volt drops to 8 volts?
Is this correct?

Correct!

 

[canvaspaul]

Thanks for the info fordsix fan's,

This weekend I connected al things together and put a jar off gasoline under the engine and put in the gasoline-hose.
Only one small mistake with the cabling, with cranking a spark but if i release the starter button no spark.
fond the mistake and resolved it.
So far the engine will ignite and run at idle very rough, if I try to increase the speed the motor it will die, at that time black smoke is coming out of the exhaust.
And the jar with gasoline is very quickly empty, my guess the engine gets to much gas, so I have to see what I can do about that.
Have to check the compression first I think.

Keep you posted.

 

[canvaspaul]

Need some help, after trying every vacuum combination i still get not the engine running.
Ist consuming a lot of gas en will shack, puf, and plof and then stops.
if I take take out the plug its socks in gasoline. the engine is drowning with gas.
Yes there is a spark, tested it several times.

Its a 1946 carburettor with a automatic choke.

Do I need to electric connect the choke?

I have 3 vacuum connection, what is the correct way to connect, I saw different solution on this forum, out but till now no result.

Can it be that the engine is in a very bad shape?
Can i measure compression with a cold engine? bought a compression gauge today.

Thanks in advance

Gr Paul.

 

[bubba22349]

Its a 1946 carburettor with a automatic choke.

Do I need to electric connect the choke?

You can hook it up or just loosen the choke cover screws and turn cover so that the choke blade is opened up all the way. Make a note of the index mark location on cover so you can return it when you want to hook it up. If this is an carb that's set around along time than you may have to take it a part and at least clean and check float level. You can try to lightly tap the float bowl of the carb sometimes floats stick from sitting dry. From your description sounds like flooding and is provably the reason it won't start.

I have 3 vacuum connection, what is the correct way to connect, I saw different solution on this forum, out but till now no result.

Unless you have hoses unhooked where they are open it should not stop it from running. I would need to see more and close up pics the vacuum lines to know for sure if they are hooked up right but from your first post pics looks like it is.

Can it be that the engine is in a very bad shape?
Can i measure compression with a cold engine? bought a compression gauge today.

It could be but without some testing or a tear down is no way to know. You for sure can do a compression test on a cold engine though readings may be off some (bit lower). But it will give the info you need to know and show if there is any big problems.