Smoke From Carb!

[bubba22349]

I hate to sound stupid in this question, but I just went outside and looked for the N or T again and maybe I don't understand where this should be. I looked on the right front top of the head and don't see a flat bossed area. Do I have to remove something to see it? I saw the picture but I guess its not clear enough for me to understand. (I know I will feel silly once I find it) I will scrape some more junk tomorrow after work..

No you don't need to remove anything but this boss is also not on top of the head, It's location is on the top of the short block assembly. In the above posted picture you are looking at the top of the cylinder blocks deck surface. Follow the head down to its bottom surface were you will see the parting line at the head gasket between the head surface and the top of the blocks deck surface. This is where the boss is located (on the drivers side front of engine).

You said the plugs are bone dry after it shuts off! So next time the engine stalls or right now if it still won't start do a recheck of the fuel pump test to see if it's still pumping any fuel volume. Good luck

 

[bones 92]

Thank Bubba, I’ll check for that dang N tonight. I’m determined to find it. On the other notes I started it this morning and it’s crazy how fast it starts first try with no throttle, I’m suspect of the fuel pump. I ordered one this afternoon and will test the old one tonight. I’m pretty sure it’s the pump because it won’t pull fuel from the tank and I’ve replaced the tank and the pickup inside, as well as cleared the line before doing any of that. I’ll report back tonight with my findings. Thanks for your fast response!

 

[bubba22349]

You are welcome bones 92, yes the fact that it starts quickly means that your tune up settings may be very close to the optimal. Also that the points, plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires, coil, ignistion switch, battery and electrical wiring, are all in good working order. So you do have the spark and air that the engine needs to run leaving only the fuel delivery to be the problem. From your description of what it's doing I am with you on your reasoning that it leaves the fuel pump to be the cause of no fuel to the carb. Good luck

 

[chad]

"...the fuel pump test to see if it's still pumping any fuel volume..."
If started w/that can'n line U have, run it there AND
just pull the line down from the filter/pump, throw into a lill bucket & watch to see how if pumps

 

[bones 92]

All good new tonight! Fuel pump test went well, seems sound. The good part was after I tested and hooked it back up it didn't die after a few minutes it ran long enough to get up to normal operating temp! I also found the casting marks, I see the N marking the 144 another series of numbers under it - 4 2E7T Pictures of markings: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jljA7OnZCduAXXOOEEeUeuxyG_oh4akD

I will go through in the next few days and set the timing again, air fuel and just general tune up, and hopefully drive it! For now thanks for all the help! I'm sure I will be stumped again soon enough.

 

[bubba22349]

That's some great news! Getting the fresh fuel through the pump must of finally cleaned out enough of the old varnish gumming up one or both of the oneway check valves caused from setting, and now it will operate again. Good luck and enjoy driving it.

 

[chad]

...the car stalls there is vapor or smoke coming out of the top of the carb and if I let the carb spray fuel, more smoke... [/img]Chris

I think ur 1st guess is correct. It's vapor. Just atomized (thats what a carb duz) fuel misting out over the non-a/c housing covered carb.
Get it back dwn in there'n yer all set.

 

[bones 92]

Wellllll i'm back! After one positive night, it was all downhill the next day. I went out the next night after work and it would start and stall in seconds. Did the fuel pump test again and sure enough the fuel pump had been intermittent. SO tonight I replaced the fuel pump and filters(again). And had WAY more fuel pressure! I thought this was going to be the end of it, no so much. Now I think it is flooding the engine, the plugs were soaked so I waited a few hours, cleaned the plugs and it starts but only with the choke wide open and on full throttle. I have to stay on the throttle and it chugs but never makes it to idol and dies if I let off the pedal. (I played with the timing and not much change either way)

Another issue: since I was going to attempt to drive it, I ran it though the gears after replacing the gear oil. It is now stuck in first. The shifter is not stuck I can still run it through the gears but the wheels are spinning when it is in "neutral". Any ideas on this one? Also the car is up on jack stands not sure if that would do anything but I try to give everyone as much information as possible. Its a 3 on the tree stock transmission. Hoping it is just something with the linkage even though it all looks as feels normal.

I'll address one at a time of course but any and all trouble shooting suggestions are appreciated!

 

[Econoline]

You've got to rebuild the carb.

 

[bones 92]

Carb has already been rebuilt. Is there a good replacement for the Holley 1909? Thats what it's got now, should I go to the autolite 1100. Whats a good reliable option? Or is there something I can do to test it before throwing more money at it?

 

[bubba22349]

That's to bad your having more trouble but atleast you are moving forward. In bringing a car back into drivable service after setting so many years it takes lots of time and effort checking every detail. With the new fuel pump you now have much more fuel pressure (to much) since its flooding. There are a couple of ways to deal with this issue first way is you could install a fuel pressure regulator and set it to 3 1/2 PSI quick and easy. The other option is to install a fuel return line back to the tank it's a little more work but also works. Once you get this flooding taken care of it should run much better. In the mean time while your not working or running the car pull all the plugs so that this excessive fuel has the time to dry out of each cylinder and the plugs.

On the transmission sounds like a linkage problem, so check all of the linkage rods wear at their pivot points also inspecting the rubber and other parts at these conections these rods and pivot points need to be in good condistion and adjusted properly, new kits to replace the worn shift Rod parts are available some times the rods need to have round ends rebuilt (welded up to repair them). To test that the trans is working right you could disconnect the shift Rod at the transmission shift arm and see if you can move the shift arm back and forth to change the gear (good that car is still up securely on blocks or jack stands safety first!). Good luck

 

[Econoline]

The needle and seat should be able to seal unless the fuel pressure is way out of spec. Do you have a gauge you can tee in and see what the pressure is? Maybe pull the carb top and double check the needle and seat look good and dbl chk you're float setting and that the float doesn't have a pinhole in it, i.e. fuel inside of it.

 

[bones 92]

Thanks for the advise, I'll do both early tomorrow morning before work. I picked up a gauge and pressure reg. today. I'll install it and also check the float levels and the needle and seat. I'll report back tomorrow!

Also for the trans, the transmission shift arm can still move back and forth/up and down to change the gear, but it doesn't actually come out of gear. playing with the linkage, and inside the car I can get it into all 4 gears r-3. Still the linkage could be worked on (just so old). But somehow it seems ok?

 

[bubba22349]

X2 Econoline brought up an very good point in his above post and it's something I have dealt with offen when rebuilding these old carburetors. This is checking the condistion of the float for being too heavy. Often the old brass floats can have a hole / crack in them that allows the fuel to leak inside making the float heavy enough it sinks, so that the fuel level can't be shut off by the needle and seat causing carb flooding. The needle seat or a bad / heavy float are the most common causes of carb flooding. This can also happen with the nitro type floats too as they can deteriorate over time and start to absorb fuel and become too heavy and need to be replaced. Just by feeling the weight of a brass float you can often tell or by shaking it back and forth you can also see the fuel start seeping out. These brass float can sometimes be fixed by removing all the wet fuel, then drying them out, and soldering the hole / crack up, other than that they would need to be replaced with a new one.

On your question about getting another carb, for a stock 144 the Holley carb you have if its in good condition (throdle shaft isn't showing excess slop from being worn out) then it's the perfect carb for your engine now. If you later plan to do some performance Mod's then there are some better choices. Good luck

 

[chad]

we don't have much info on this vehicle, it's ur 12th post...
"...don't know how to confirm its got the 144, and the 3 speed manual trans. Its mated with a holley 1909 carb..."

Often the new guys who don't follow up on the suggested research ('Handbook', tech archive - suggested above), R new to the vehicle (remember? 1st job is to ID everything), fly blind. This all ways leads me to the SCV/LOM mis-match, its such a monkey wrench, comes up so often, I'm tempted to suggest it here...but...will not.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi Chad, recheck the above posts #8 and #25 they have all the info needed on "bones 92" 1962 Falcon and its 144 engine togeather with the pictures you can see it's still very original.

 

[chad]

Hi Chad, recheck the above posts #8 and #25 they have all the info needed on "bones 92" 1962 Falcon and its 144 engine.

Ahhhh, good on ya bones !
dizzy/carb match...(I guess.
too lazy 4 me ta read )

 

[bones 92]

Hey all, been a few days of rain here; So very little progress right now. I did have a few hours and got a fuel pressure regulator installed. I still haven't had time to got in the carb and check it out. It does have the nitro type float that I haven't replaced so that may be the next step. I did try to start it anyway, just trying one thing at a time. Seemed like it was flooding less but still not solved. It started with the choke open and wide open throttle ran rough and smelled like gas. Like I said still have to check the carb/float. Should have better weather tomorrow to check it out! Slowly but surely working through it.

Let me know if I am missing information I am hoping I am answering all questions to help get this old girl back on the road. You all are the best resource!

 

[jamyers]

I'd go back through the carb with an obsessive-compulsive fine tooth comb, making sure it's *absolutely* clean and all settings are dead on.

Also, check valve lash - if they're out it'll cause all sorts of hell.

 

[bones 92]

Alright, small update today. If I am posting to frequently let me know! I took the carb apart, everything seems alright. I replaced the little Pump Piston Cup and Pump Inlet Valve since I had spares. Cleaned the heck out of it and it flooded again, I suspect the float is too heavy and isn't rising. I went ahead and took it back apart and ordered a new float, really hoping thats it. I also checked the oil and it smelled like gas, so after all the flooding I decided to drain and replace it. Also I took jaymers advise and checked valve lash (although the engine was cold) It was fairly close to the .016 that the handbook recommends. I got them all on the money for when the new float comes in; at least until I can recheck warm. While I wait is there anything I can check? Is there a test for the nitrophyl float?

edit: fuel pressure is at a steady 3.5