THread II - Pro Fab tubular intake on falcon log head

[autoX65]

viewtopic.php?f=101&t=72395&hilit=lets+talk+tubular....custom+intake+on+the+falcon+log+head

here is thread two on my custom super stock vintage inline six build.

Its not often men get to have a car for a hobby or better a car to build into a race car so i have been privileged enough to be in that position working on other peoples cars that mean something to them so I would never interfere with that especially in today's economy. be what what you want to be.

I appreciate all the inspiring info people have added in this attached build thread. and lets keep it going because these are invaluable engineering skills for someone to get a start on their own idea that are hidden within that thread.

my twin venturi carbureted fuel system, with custom aluminum tuned intake, stage iv race built cylinder head inline six super stock build will continue here.

 

[autoX65]

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[autoX65]

-alright here are my stage 4 custom combustion chambers have worked each one three times by hand with a carbite burr then three times with light sand paper on dremel - roughly 80 hours of griding on the chambers plus time designing them and checking for volume through the process for my application to get the right compression

-intake ports are heavily reshaped along with exhaust ports - roughly 100+ hour of port work on them and polished exhaust runners!

_oversized stainless steel valves, carbon valve seals, dual springs, one peice retainers and forged custom locks so the valve sits high enough above the stem.

_1000s of dollars of hi grade aluminum right there custom made and mandrel bent thick wall pipe for the runners and intense machine work as well to get it to this point.

-1000s of hours or reasearch and my own engineering knowledge(priceless)

thats what is in those pictures.

 

[autoX65]

still to come will be the head decking or surfacing, new hardened exhaust seats, custom spring cups, valve guide boss machine work for seals and custom spring cups valve train stability, Bronze valve guides and valve job...head is already glass beaded and magnifluxed and found one little crack in the deck to repair.

then the final welding of the intake so all the rebuild on cylinder head and intake will be done at the same time by me all in one shot which will be a time consuming job.

The biggest delay is the custom tappered velocity stacks since I have to make a mold that will be CNC cut I need to finish up writing the program for a 15 degree tapper bending out to a flare so thats not easy math to come up with.

Plus the landlord is relocating the CNC machine to the other side of the warehouse so that is an ordeal by itself and still waiting on the electricians to run the wiring for it then have to have professional movers handle the job so thats where the most delay will be but cant imagine or predict It will take longer then the end of the month to complete and get this head racing.

Going to hit it with 40lbs of boost on a custom built GT35R turbo with custom plated hot side that is a twin scroll entry and the compressor side is a custom anti-surge unit that is capable of supporting 800 hp so with the aluminum intake the fuel will not get hot so shouldnt see any pre detination especially with the custom combustion chambers and will be doing lots of welding on the back side of the chambers from inside the water passages as well for support and heat transfer.

Its at least a stage iv head and I should be able to drill and tap into that thick wall pipe for a NOS fogger system with a 125hp shot in two stages so its going to be the one to beat... especially if I tap it for port on port injection and dual throttle bodies down the road so I feel its a good platform for me.

you will really have to see the final product it will look sleek sticking up under my pro stock hood scoop and will have plenty of air and fuel in the intake ready for the engine to pull on.

 

[autoX65]

oh yes and not to mention custom intake to exhaust runner volumes along with custom intake runner lengths and cavitational or cross sectional area in the right parts of the runner with reworked short and long side radious' of intake and exhaust bowls. They flow INSANE! The camshaft design is what will bring this combo alive.

should even have a nascar or formula one level tunned Intake ram or super charger affect naturally apirated at 5500 rpms the pulse from the intake valve closing moving vibrations at the speed of sound up and down the intake runners is tunned to lenght of the intake so that at the tunned Revolution per minute that pulse will create the supercharging effect forcing air down the intake runners into the cylinder. :rolflmao: :wow:

With my cam design it should make power from 1400rpms up to peak HP at 5500RPMS and will still freely rev well up and into the 7 grand rpm range.

 

[autoX65]

well after squeezing in every little bit of time I could during one of my busiest first halves of the year and a very busy summer I finally got all the little details of this build worked out.

still need some help with the start up and break in of the motor.....again 200 block, race built rollerized c4 (custom valve body, asbestos metal wide bands, machined clutch packs for 5 on 5 friction plates, and custom stall converter) , 1969 distributor, msd wires and msd blaster 2 coil with .8ohm resistor inline.
fuel system is Holley 2305 mechanical secondary 500cfm two barrel( originally calibrated for Australian cross-flow 4.1L inline six) has stock jetting (55 primary and 72 secondary)

did the First testing last night and all systems seemed to work. got video as well, cranked it from the engine bay and gave it maybe 1/4 throttle just to get the choke open a little.. poured some fuel down the vent tube to prime the carb, shot some starter fluid down primary throat.

I primed it full throttle 2 or three times initially and it put a lot of fuel in from that.

I started cranking it and got a back fire from the carburetor with a mid sized flame coming out. gave it a minute then cranked again and almost turned over but again had a small back fire out the carburetor.

Ive dealt with it before and will cross of some of the possibilities and do some systems and electrical checks again, as well I will disconnect the vacuum advance on the try this evening. it seems close and almost had it running I think it go to much fuel the first go. and to much of a vacuum advance curve I believe, Im at 12 degrees initial timing as well.

any suggestions? or things I hope I didn't over look. This as well was done at about 8 at night after a very hot day yesterday and the sun was down so I know that could have brought a lean condition since it was cold out at night when I tried to break it in. I will try while its still warm out today in the afternoon.

 

[bubba22349]

If it's back firing through the carb then I would recheck that the distributor is stabbed in the right position. Make sure you are on the compression stroke on #1 cylinder with the rotor set to fire the #1 tower on the distributor cap. Other then that also recheck that the plug wires are installed correctly (for the firing order). Sounds like your close though do you any pics of your new combo? Good luck

 

[autoX65]

I think your having carb or timing probs.

a little more info on the set up

1) have you set the float level? still not fully set is that a problem?
2) have you adjusted the air/fuel mixture? at 1 1/2 turns out I ll try 2 turns out this time
3) If you changed points did you recheck the timing? has pertronix ignitor
4) what did you gap the points at N/A
5) did you gap the plugs before the install .036 (should it be more since pertronix say .010 over I believe?)
6) What is the timing at idle 12 Initial
7) what is the idle set at .....N/A
8) how did you check for vacuum leaks ......ill hook up the vacuum gauge this time.
9) plug wires good? yes

other possibilities....

1) bad coil ( used this coil on the same engine for 10k miles so should be good) MSD blaster 2 coil......key in on position has 6 Volts at coil. this is correct right with the 8202 and inline resistor?
2)spark plugs are new motocrafts at 0.036 gap
3)valve timing off.....(hydraulic rocker assembly off 1969 250 with stock length 200 push-rods)
4)improper ignition timing?/? thats a possibility like camshaft degree off or distributor 180 degrees off?
5)vacuum leaks...
6)worn or broken valve train parts .....freshly rebuilt so this is unlikely
7)choke is binding or sticking......mine is working properly though this is my first experience with a 2305 holley
8)12v at electric choke......I will double check this
9)firing order or spark plug wire mixed.....I will check this again
10)accelerator pump is working proper
11)bowl vents not restricted
12) no air cleaner on this start up yet and I believe the fuel filter is not clogged either.

 

[bubba22349]

With the problem that you are describing I would focus mainly on the the distributor timing position. Ie sounds like its 180 degrees off from firing Num. 1 on compression stroke, and or there's an improper plug wiring order on the distributor cap (firing order). As for the Holley carb the wet float level is set so with the engine idling, fuel level is correct when it's at the bottom of the sight plug hole of the fuel bowl. You also check the fuel level for a basic setting after it's been cranked over a few times and as long as the fuel is a little below the site level hole with engine not running it should be close enough to get it running to be able to reset it. Idle mixture screws set to 3/4 to 1 1/2 turns out should be adequate for getting it started, you might also block the choke so it's fully open until you get a little further with your tuning. From .034 to .045 should work for the plug gap. Good luck

 

[autoX65]

well it seems to be set proper I verified tdc on the #1 compression stroke. all spark plugs and wires look good and in correct order. tried twice to start it again. no backfiring this time. almost started to fire up the first time and second time nothing but cranking.....hmmmm what to do what to do.

 

[autoX65]

alright i checked again and the float level seems to low.

 

[bubba22349]

Did you set the dry float level when you had the carb opened up? Loosen the locking screw on top of the fuel bowl then turn the adjusting nut below it . It's been awhile but I think turning it clock wise lowers fuel level counter clockwise raises it or it's else it's the opposite. Good luck

 

[autoX65]

yes got that dialed in when it was built but just got the wet setting set and thats correct counterclockwise brings the float level higher and clockwise to lower the float level.

I think ive got about 6 or seven gallons in the tank but still not getting good fuel pressure so Im going to add a few more gallons and see because its still not registering on the fuel gauge. that could be the main problem. I remember when these cars run out of gas there is always a few gallons at least still in the bottom of the tank below the fuel pump that you drains out. will try the third attempt shortly....

 

[autoX65]

also is that regular to see only 6 volts at the coil + side with the msd blaster 2 (#8202)?

 

[autoX65]

well I got enough fuel in it now and i did find what looks to be a bad cap and rotor even though it was fairly new as was running it on my last I6. anyway I have a few spare good caps just off to get a new rotor then see if it fires.

 

[bubba22349]

also is that regular to see only 6 volts at the coil + side with the msd blaster 2 (#8202)?

Yes you would only see from 6 to 8 volts at the + coil post with the key in the "Run" position if you still have the stock resitistor wire or an external resistor. Do you still have the adistional wire hooked up to the starter solinod (I termanal) for full 12 volts during the starting circut?

 

[autoX65]

ya the electrical is all correctly wired and in order.

ahhh F my life ....just went for try three today and I am positive it was the bad cap and rotor.

so I go for try three and set it set up for remote start.....I put the key in but didnt turn it to on this time.....hit the little red button an there goes the starter solenoid....I will try once more in the morning.....I want to give the battery another charge tonight after three cranking attempts today.....so close. I have a spare starter and solenoid on hand so will try first thing tomorrow.

 

[autoX65]

also is that regular to see only 6 volts at the coil + side with the msd blaster 2 (#8202)?

Yes you would only see from 6 to 8 volts at the + coil post with the key in the "Run" position if you still have the stock resistor wire or an external resistor. Do you still have the additional wire hooked up to the starter solinod (I terminal) for full 12 volts during the starting circuit?

okay this could be an issue after all.....its been a good long year plus since this new build so I had to re wire everything this time again.

I ran a new ignition wire and a external resistor. Should the I terminal be hooked directly to coil + side? i have had it so the ignition wire and the I terminal form the solenoid are before the resistor feeding the coil......so I believe I need to move forward the I terminal wire from the solenoid directly to the coil + so it gets a full 12v volts at start? is that correct? since i had that wire feeding into the resistor it still most likely was not getting the full 12v its needs upon start up.


off to try the fourth time in a few moments.....after i verify with pertronix for assurance.

 

[bubba22349]

also is that regular to see only 6 volts at the coil + side with the msd blaster 2 (#8202)?

Yes you would only see from 6 to 8 volts at the + coil post with the key in the "Run" position if you still have the stock resistor wire or an external resistor. Do you still have the additional wire hooked up to the starter solinod (I terminal) for full 12 volts during the starting circuit?

okay this could be an issue after all.....its been a good long year plus since this new build so I had to re wire everything this time again.

I ran a new ignition wire and a external resistor. Should the I terminal be hooked directly to coil + side? i have had it so the ignition wire and the I terminal form the solenoid are before the resistor feeding the coil......so I believe I need to move forward the I terminal wire from the solenoid directly to the coil + so it gets a full 12v volts at start? is that correct? since i had that wire feeding into the resistor it still most likely was not getting the full 12v its needs upon start up.
off to try the fourth time in a few moments.....after i verify with pertronix for assurance.

Yes the wire from the I termanal needs to go direct to the + coil post to have a full 12 volts, other wise it's going to have the same voltage drop as the ignition switch wire (in the Run position) going through the resistor. Good luck

 

[autoX65]

cool I called pertronix and they said the same so i rewired that, charged the battery again, new solenoid and starter so I will attempt tomorrow......just found a little leak on the fuel pump to so i know i had a new spare one around some where i need to search for tomorrow then should get it to run.