trials of the 200 learning curve

[Anonymous]

hello folks..... thanks for all the help you experienced folks have lent me the past couple years with my 200ci. Over the last 2 1/2 years, I have had my engine rebuilt twice by a (seemingly) reputable local shop. However, I had to re-rebuild the engine when I burned pistons 3 and 4 after about one year on the road.....(they warrantied the top end, not the bottom- cost about $900 the second time around after $1700 the first) I have not as yet discovered the culprit....... but have considered possible dizzy and carb issues primarily (I recently installed a DS II, and I've been playing around with a weber 32/36 recently still working out jetting)...... SO HERE'S THE PROBLEM: After all this tinkering, I recently discoverd my exhaust manifold was glowing red hot when driving up the long steep hill to the mountain village where I live- I assume this can't be normal. I am worried I still have the same problem that caused my engine failure after such a short time- and I can't concieve of what it could be except an intake leak- I have a stock early 80's head, and have had low compression numbers, even since the rebuild from (cold) 90 psi on the low end to 120 psi on the high end. My cyliners are I believe thirty hundredths over, and I couldn't convince the rebuilder to mill the head to restore a higher compression......Any advice will be greatly appreciated...... sincerely.... david soCal

 

[Anonymous]

By the way, those compression #'s were taken with the throddle plate closed...... forgot to say

 

[Junk-Falcon]

shure

 

[Anonymous]

Check your jetting, also check for an exhaust restriction - crushed pipe or clogged muffler.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

on my old 170 (135K on it) it would glow red at night. I was driving it to school once (250 miles non stop) and oil got low so pulled over and topped it off. was driving at 80mph and simpley pulled over and popped the hood. mani was glowing red front to back. never cracked it or anything like that (head was milled .020" and I ran a steel gasket) it ran pretty rich though (1100 off a 200 on a 170)

 

[mugsy]

Sounds lean to me. So its either the carb is way out of wack or there is too much air leaking around the carb to get the right ratio.

I bought an Edlebrock Air/Fuel ratio meter for about 120 bucks. I found it very valuable in tuning my carbs. If you go this route you'll have to weld an O2 bung some where in the exhaust pipe. I had mine welded in the header collector.

 

[fordconvert]

Some sort of restriction in the exhaust? Bent pipe? Plugged converter (if there is one)? Critter nest in the muffler?

 

[66 Fastback]

Also check your timing. Retarded timing raises the exhaust gas temp. Confirm that the timing mark on the harmonic balancer has not slipped and that the indicated TDC is actually at TDC of the #1 cyl.
Doug

 

[Anonymous]

I bought an Edlebrock Air/Fuel ratio meter for about 120 bucks. I found it very valuable in tuning my carbs. If you go this route you'll have to weld an O2 bung some where in the exhaust pipe. I had mine welded in the header collector.

[/quote]

would this meter help me recognize a lean condition (like a crack in the intake)? My plugs have never looked white....... thanks.... David

 

[hasa68mustang]

I bought an Edlebrock Air/Fuel ratio meter for about 120 bucks. I found it very valuable in tuning my carbs. If you go this route you'll have to weld an O2 bung some where in the exhaust pipe. I had mine welded in the header collector.

would this meter help me recognize a lean condition (like a crack in the intake)? My plugs have never looked white....... thanks.... David[/quote]

it sure would. I went with more of an expensive wideband a/f ratio setup just because it can datalog. I am also saying check the timing too far retarded could make the engine run a little hotter.

 

[fordconvert]

Sorry all and Aerowrench somehow I missed your post before mine where you had the exhaust restriction thought..... I should read slower.

What is the Webber 32/36? Any pictures or info around here somewhere? I searched and it comes up often but didnt see any posts with specs but as before I just may be missing it.

 

[jamyers]

Check the timing and the exhaust pipes/muffler.

Exhaust manifolds should never get that hot.

 

[Anonymous]

fordconvert- see the sticky at the top of the topics, there is a diagram of the carb if you scroll down through the posts. Many folks have been upgrading to the 32/36 Weber, also called 5200 or DVG as it is a progressive 2 barrel which provides better power and economy with patience on the jetting..... they are relatively inexpensive from tom at langdon stovebolts (under $100) but you take your chances on the condition of the carb which comes with a quick-not thorough rebuild..... the 32/35 was used on lots of stuff from Jeeps to pintos.....

 

[Lazy JW]

Check the timing and the exhaust pipes/muffler.

Exhaust manifolds should never get that hot.

I agree. If the timing is too late then you get an incomplete burn in the cylinders. The burning continues in the exhaust manifold which will then get VERY hot. I have known big-block Chebbies to turn the manifolds red when under heavy loads for long periods of time even with timing/mixture set correctly.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

I had my harmoic balancer rebuilt with the engine; how could I verify that the rebuilder positioned it correctly- (is there a way the timing mark could possibly be incorrect either by the engine/balancer rebuilder's error)- naturally I used the timing mark along with the rebuilder's claim that the engine was at TDC when I dropped in the distributor. I timed the engine with a light at 8 deg BTDC at idle and it advances to about 38 deg as it approaches 3000 rpm (in the driveway-no load)..... (the manifold only gets hot while driving up hills.....) the engine runs to my satisfaction- other than the red manifold which makes me scared I'm going to ruin another engine...... thanks all...... David SoCal

 

[fordconvert]

Ahhhh... "also known as a 5200" now I get it.

Glowing manifold is bad, when I have had that happen its always been plugged cat converter or stuck EFE valve but I assume we dont have either one in this case so I dont have any ideas.

 

[jamyers]

I had my harmoic balancer rebuilt with the engine; how could I verify that the rebuilder positioned it correctly- (is there a way the timing mark could possibly be incorrect either by the engine/balancer rebuilder's error)- ...

Absolutely rebuilders get them wrong - my rebuilt 455 balancer is 2* off, but it's balanced and I know that so I can deal with it.

Most every engine also has the crank-to-balancer keyway located at TDC, so you could pull the crank bolt to see the keyway and confirm tdc, or it's easier to get/make a piston stop (basically a bolt that goes into the sparkplug hole and blocks the piston on the way up.) and confirm.

* Insert the piston stop, and BY HAND slowly rotate the crank one direction until the piston bumps into the stop.
* look at the timing indicator on the block, and mark the balancer at the tdc position.
* rotate the block slowly the other direction until it bumps against the stop, and mark the balancer again at tdc.
* Halfway between the two marks will be actual tdc, which *should* be the timing notch in the balancer. If not don't worry, just make or mark a new notch.

OR, you can stick a small wire into the sparkplug hole, have a helper turn the crank by hand, and feel for when the piston stops moving at the top. Not as accurate, but it'll give you an idea if your timing mark is way off or not.

++++++++++++++++++++++==

Or you can ignore the timing mark altogether, and keep advancing the timing until it starts pinging under heavy loads, then back it off 2-4 degrees. Lots of people (me included) do it that way, and since the balancer isn't actually a part of our Ford Six engines' balancing, it really doesn't matter where the outer ring is located except for the timing mark.

Sounds like your advance is working, although 30 additional degrees seems a bit much (is that with the vacuum advance hooked up?).

 

[Anonymous]

yes, that advance is with the vacuum hooked up- no pinging..... I had tried to put my pinkey in the spark plug hole- didn't think of the wire.... that's a good one thanks... David

 

[Bort62]

Sounds like retarded timing under load to me.

Burning pistons that frequently is not right - something is horribly wrong with your tune.

Also, if the machinest would not mill the head down how you asked him too, I would find another machinest. That's super lame.

 

[Anonymous]

a friend suggested I time the engine on manifold vacuum. After verifying that my timing mark was correct (it was within a degree or 2) I hooked a vac gauge up a manifold vac port and advanced the timing up to about 17psi (it had been running about 10 or 12 psi) this brought my timing with the light and scale up to 14 degrees at idle from 6 degrees. I will drive it tonight and see what the manifold looks like. Does this change sound like a bright idea? What does 'pinging' sound like anyway? david soCal