All Small Six Tuning help requested for 32/36 weber

This relates to all small sixes

Dragonlich1961

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My 61 Ranchero is finally up and running. I've got it up and driving around, idles good.(havent checked with AC on yet). It runs ok but seams to be lacking in the power department.
Engine- 200 .030. zero decked. 78 head with valve work. Heads shaved(don't know how much) Comp cams 260h WSA111 ds2 dizzy run by a msd6al. backed by a t5z and ford 8.8 with 3.73. dual outlet header from vintage inlines. Arp hardware used in all 3 critical areas.
Looking for some advice on where to begin with some adjustments.
Thanks Chris
 

wme013

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The first question is how is the weber 32-36 mounted to the manifold. A 2 to 1 adapter or a 2 barrel conversion to the intake manifold?
2nd What is your base timing?
 

bubba22349

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I am glad to hear that you zero decked the block, but if you didn't mill the head so that its 52 to 50 CC then you are giving away plenty of potential in a lower compression ratio. The 1969 to 1983 heads are bigger chambers at 62 CC and it generally takes a .075 inch cut just to get back to the stock 8.7 to 1 CR (stock is 52 CC) using the new style FelPro comp. type head gasket. Let alone going for more like 9.0 to 9.2 to 1 to maximize the CR for regular fuel or going even more if you are going to be running premium fuel.
 

Dragonlich1961

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I've set timing to 16 btdc. I believe the head was shaved but I don't remember how much. I know the head needs machined for newer gaskets(felpro) and I have it shaved more for compression . I was shooting for 9.0-9.2. I had the engine machining done about 6 years ago.
Timing is set according to wsa111's recommendation from when I got the distributor. The carb is mounted with vintage inlines adapter. Not direct mount(wish I did)
 

wme013

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According to the VI website, the 2/1 adapter is good for about a 5hp gain. The 2v conversion is good for 20hp.
Even if you got the head shaved to reach your CR goal you only have 200 cid. While it will be "funner" to drive, it will never be a 4bbl 302 V-8.
So go through the basic list, throttle butterfly full open at WOT, proper air cleaner setup, fuel pressure, full voltage to dizzy, get a can of carb cleaner and use it look for vacuum leaks and as part of the leak look at all the vacuum hoses
 

bubba22349

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After it takes a long time to build these cars up over the years somtimes it's a good practice to write down all the engine specs, part numbers, tuning specs that you end up using, the cars chassis mod's and parts used etc. in a note book and or in a computer file so you have them for future reference it's to easy to forget things over time. So not knowing you can still do a cold cranking compression test and see what kind of PSI numbers you get. With this info it will help you a get to a ball park CR. Good luck
 

powerband

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it will be "funner" to drive,

I do believe that is the idea ...

.

@ 15 years ago swapped in a low-miles Maverick 170 (C8DE block - DODE 170 Cyl Head) and added a 32-36(H/W5200) carb through a $15 2X1 adapter, Hooker long tube headers, T5 5 spd. The 170 had moderate head work and milled @ .070 for @ 48cc chambers, with a Steel Shim gasket - 170 bore/stroke SCR approaches 10:1 . Great mileage and fairly quick (on 93+ octane ) The original gas pedal linkage worked with the 5200 - HW32/36 with a little forming'

With some suspension mods and radials, the old wagon is more than fun.

hav e fun
 

Dragonlich1961

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I have no other vacumn uses. Manual brakes, electric wipers, manual trans. It idles great, just seams like I need put my foot farther to the floor then I should, given what I've done.
 

chad

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"..head needs machined for newer gaskets..."
we'd CC the head & machine for chamber size, go to the deck for this (the gasket mill), both just to 'true' if needed.'

"...Heads shaved(don't know how much)..."
might want to know.
Did the assembler degree the cam?
What is CR now?

"...begin with some adjustments..."
advance till ping, come back a few degrees?
A good ignition time, when set - onto 1 for the carb? read plugs
Very final (like headers) diz re-curve~
 

mustang6

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Hey Dragon, in addition to everything technical that all have said above, remember that you have taken a larger one barrel carb and replaced it with a small progressive mechanical secondary two bbl carb. On a 32-36, for the first approx 50% of gas pedal travel you are only opening a smaller primary 1 bbl than you used to have (less air and fuel, equals less power but better economy), and you won’t catch up with comparative airflow until partway into the 2nd barrel being opened (maybe 2/3 of pedal). When more than 2/3 pedal you should then gain that 5 extra HP (on an adapter). So with a 32-36 you get better idle and better economy for most driving, if you really floor it you should feel equal or slightly better power. I think that’s at least part of why you feel like you have to really floor it it get anything. Basically the 32-36 is an economy carb and what extra power it could give is stymied by running through the adapter (5 HP is hard to feel, even on a 200 ci).

Personally I like the 32-36 for its drivability, but if you truly want more power and to realize the gains from your other investments, you need a power oriented carb like the Weber 38-38 or an Autolite/Holley 2 bbl, preferably on a direct mount or you will lose much of what those carbs can offer for power as well.
 

Dragonlich1961

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Finally getting my 61 back on the road after getting the bed painted. Need to finalize the tune on her in the next month, as she has an appointment on June 14th she can't miss💍. Timing is set to 18 degree's, idle speed is 700 Ac on. Here's where the fun starts. I still have pinging at greater throttle percentages 70%+. Idle mixture screw is at 3 turns out from base. Idle speed is 3.25 turns out from base. Idle is ok not perfect, with the hood up you can watch it dance side to side a bit as well as feel the engine shake. I did adjust my throttle linkage some to allow for closer to full throttle( pedal hit carpets, but the linkage starts move in it's mount(firewall). I have a jet kit coming to start playing with it. Would like to know where I should start first. ( I have yet to run a cranking compression test). I know what I have now is slightly being restricted by the adapter, I would like to fix this at some point but I do not have the time to until after her appointment. I would like to get Matt's Aluminum head- still in production so that will have to wait. IMG_0645.JPGIMG_0909.JPG
 

bubba22349

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That's is a very nice looking Ranchero! Yes you really need to do the compression test right soon before you can do much tuneing. If you need the mixture screw turned out that far then the jetting and or air correctors need some work to maybe richer. You might have some detention happening at higher throttle openings (you said at 70% and higher) I would try dialing back the base timing by 2 to 4 degrees if you can't get the jets in time to make your June apt. Is the firewall throdle bracket worn excessively? You might need to try and welding the hole up than redrill back to its original size and or weld up the wear areas on the throttle lever were it rotates in the bracket. Best of luck Edited
 

chad

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"...I have a jet kit coming..."
Ho boy,
that thing has 4 or 6 kinda jets. Time to ask the big boys, I'm out.
Fella brought ina Toy heep w/the pinto carb. PO had tied the 2 linkages together so it wuz no longer progressive. I messed w/it for several days and got back progressive & "less smoke" out the tail pipe but never went too deep on jet swaps (just idle and air I think, its been awhile). Owner wuz happy (not me, could still see some grey out the pipe, smell it). May B a PM to "X"? Do a good ignition tune 1st then you'll have a known base there, but the shaking may say "carb"...
 

bubba22349

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That's excellent on the compression test! All the plugs look quite decent with exception of #6 it only looks to be just slightly off.
 

Dragonlich1961

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Did a little bit of work on the old girl today- after a lengthy talk with bill(wsa111) about my combination. I'll be dropping the plugs from an autolite 46 to and autolite ap45, one plug range colder. Also discussed the distributor curve. With the recommended 18 degrees advance it drives much better, but it seamed like to much timing. Bill set my distributor to about 18 degrees built in. We came to the decision that I am having a lean condition. Opened up the carb today- Before changes 150 primary main, 160 secondary main, primary idle 75, secondary idle 60. I changed to primary idle to 80 to correct my out of spec idle issue(idle speed screw in to much/ idle mixture out to far), not sure what effect the secondary idle jet(left alone) will have since I though it only idled off the primary. I also changed the primary main jet from 150 to 160. It drives better and does not struggle at 70, but the pinging issue still exists but to a lesser degree. I'm thinking a secondary main jet change is in order. (need to order as my jet kit I ordered had 150,155,160).
 

chad

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"...pinging issue still exists..."
timing, no? Dangerous, yes! 8^ 0
not jets yet
 
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Dragonlich1961

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"...pinging issue still exists..."
timing, no? Dangerous, yes! 8^ 0
not jets yet
Not sure what you are meaning here. Reason for the jet change is I had spoke with bill(wsa111) and we believe the pinging issue is related to a lack of fuel.
 

wsa111

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A lean A/F mixture will induce pinging.
Get an air fuel ratio via a wideband tester.
With ethanol fuel cruising 14.5-14.75.
WOT 12.2-12.5.
Non ethanol fuel go 12.8-13.1 WOT.
 
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