Weber DGVEmulsion Tube
- Thread starter stanyon
- Start date
stanyon":9mcc7bl0 said:
The E-tubes are under the two jets exposed with the carb top removed between the bowl and throttle bores. There are three sets of jets (if the 32/36 is similar to the 38 Outlaw, I'm thinking it is) in the Weber: the two under the top, two more in the bowl, and two on the outside, Idle Jets. I don't have my paperwork with me but here are some links I used for my 38, RodC.
http://www.classicinlines.com/WeberTune.asp
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/WeberCa ... _s/274.htm
....and for some real reading, this link also covers 32/36s mostly Jeeps,
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/weber ... dex14.html
Eight things from practical experience messing around with these brilliant staged secondary Weber carbs.
Before you even start, the 32/36 DGV carb will require extensive recalibration to suit even a moderately modified I6. The 38 DGAS/DGEV are better choices.
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/applic ... ice_32.htm
1. All version of the DGV series of Weber staged secondary carbs are optimized to suit application, with no two really being anything like each other unless you know exactly what to look for in the model name stamped on it.
2.Some 32/36's have
a) a second line for bleed back valves to a return line to the fuel tank, and can take 5 psi from a standard Ford I6 pump easily. Others don't, and need a pressure regulator set down to 2.5 psi or so. and
b) a Ventilation tube like this 38/38 DGAS
3. the float specs can be different depending on which sub model used...there are Bressel, Spain, Weber Italy, and Holley or Borg Warner made versions of this model; See viewtopic.php?t=70490
4.some have no primary squirter, it is blanked off on some emission set ups because Ford had an auxiliary set up on some emissionised Australian 2000cc Escort and Cortinas with this carb
5.In some rare cases, some have different primary and secondary venturi sizes. The Holley Weber 5200 and Euro 32/36 Weber is a 227 to 230 cfm carb at a 25"H20 pressure drop (1.85"hg) with the standard Pinto sized 26 and 27 mm venturis. Other ratings of 215, 235 and 270 cfm are at different pressures, and some had 23 mm primaries, and flow less. 99% of the time, the DGV 32/36 is a 26/27 mm venturi carb
6.The Right-hand DGV sometimes has the mirror image Left-hand Holley Weber 5200 or Fiesta DFV or DFEV parts swapped in, and when the wrong parts are accidentally swapped between the common US Holley Weber and imported DGV Weber carbs, you can end up in a whole pile of trouble looking for black cats in black rooms.
7. Once you have those sorted, you will the find the Weber is very sensitive to all aspects of primary and secondary jet and air bleed, and emulsion tube. Our guys here often adjust too coarse, and miss the sweet spot because the common Weber jets come in 5 thou call sizes. That's simply far to big a change. I'd go for 1 call size change each time for primary and secondary jets.
8. Then you use the following links from
http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki ... Carburetor to find the differences
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23153 to get the Ford Six specific problems we find
and viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49901&p=444078#p444078 BIGREDRASA's jetting table
and viewtopic.php?t=23153&highlight=jetting+tips for extra in depth information
and for any problems, http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/weber ... n-1051137/
From viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66652&p=511834#p511834
Both the Weber and Holley Webers use F2 to F78 trim emulsion #61440 tubes,
F50 primary, F6 sec for water or electric choke,
F50/F50 for earlier manual choke ,
F2's in the secondary was used for the 171 cube/2800 cc Cologne V6 had and there are other differences to air bleeds.
The F2 emulsion tube is around for #61440 carbs, our DGV, DGMS, but also ADM, ICH, and 40/46 IDA Weber
{32/36 DGV, DGAV, 38 DGMS, DGAS, ADM, 40-46 IDA (triple barrel), 34 ICT, 34 ICH and a number of other Weber carburettor models.}
http://www.weberperformance.com.au/prod ... cts_id=973
Before you even start, the 32/36 DGV carb will require extensive recalibration to suit even a moderately modified I6. The 38 DGAS/DGEV are better choices.
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/applic ... ice_32.htm
1. All version of the DGV series of Weber staged secondary carbs are optimized to suit application, with no two really being anything like each other unless you know exactly what to look for in the model name stamped on it.
2.Some 32/36's have
a) a second line for bleed back valves to a return line to the fuel tank, and can take 5 psi from a standard Ford I6 pump easily. Others don't, and need a pressure regulator set down to 2.5 psi or so. and
b) a Ventilation tube like this 38/38 DGAS
3. the float specs can be different depending on which sub model used...there are Bressel, Spain, Weber Italy, and Holley or Borg Warner made versions of this model; See viewtopic.php?t=70490
4.some have no primary squirter, it is blanked off on some emission set ups because Ford had an auxiliary set up on some emissionised Australian 2000cc Escort and Cortinas with this carb
5.In some rare cases, some have different primary and secondary venturi sizes. The Holley Weber 5200 and Euro 32/36 Weber is a 227 to 230 cfm carb at a 25"H20 pressure drop (1.85"hg) with the standard Pinto sized 26 and 27 mm venturis. Other ratings of 215, 235 and 270 cfm are at different pressures, and some had 23 mm primaries, and flow less. 99% of the time, the DGV 32/36 is a 26/27 mm venturi carb
6.The Right-hand DGV sometimes has the mirror image Left-hand Holley Weber 5200 or Fiesta DFV or DFEV parts swapped in, and when the wrong parts are accidentally swapped between the common US Holley Weber and imported DGV Weber carbs, you can end up in a whole pile of trouble looking for black cats in black rooms.
7. Once you have those sorted, you will the find the Weber is very sensitive to all aspects of primary and secondary jet and air bleed, and emulsion tube. Our guys here often adjust too coarse, and miss the sweet spot because the common Weber jets come in 5 thou call sizes. That's simply far to big a change. I'd go for 1 call size change each time for primary and secondary jets.
8. Then you use the following links from
http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki ... Carburetor to find the differences
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23153 to get the Ford Six specific problems we find
and viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49901&p=444078#p444078 BIGREDRASA's jetting table
and viewtopic.php?t=23153&highlight=jetting+tips for extra in depth information
and for any problems, http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/weber ... n-1051137/
From viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66652&p=511834#p511834
Both the Weber and Holley Webers use F2 to F78 trim emulsion #61440 tubes,
F50 primary, F6 sec for water or electric choke,
F50/F50 for earlier manual choke ,
F2's in the secondary was used for the 171 cube/2800 cc Cologne V6 had and there are other differences to air bleeds.
The F2 emulsion tube is around for #61440 carbs, our DGV, DGMS, but also ADM, ICH, and 40/46 IDA Weber
{32/36 DGV, DGAV, 38 DGMS, DGAS, ADM, 40-46 IDA (triple barrel), 34 ICT, 34 ICH and a number of other Weber carburettor models.}
http://www.weberperformance.com.au/prod ... cts_id=973
...here's a comment from my previous H/W carb 'fun' post which illustrate's xctacy's comment - " brilliant staged secondary Weber carbs.... no two really being anything like each other"
A clean "rebuilt" 5200 of questionable origin installed with a 2X1 adapter on my 170 wagon ran with typical off-idle bog. No difference with bigger or smaller jets (?). Found Ebay- dirty/as used Capri 2.8 liter (170cid) spec 5200 H/W carb nad and ran great as-is and dirty (?). Swapped in jets to the clean rebuilt carb and still ran like crap, the bog-carb jets put into 2.8 spec 5200 run fine (?) (see emulsion tubes ? ). @ seven years later the 170/5200 still run great... Smooth consistent idle, economical (primary Bbl) light cruise performance and decent interstate ramp 2Bbl max-CFM performance. (I use fuel reg' and filter right in front of H/w)
.
. 
. .
. 
... PS clean "rebuilt" 5200 available,
... your smile-age may vary
A clean "rebuilt" 5200 of questionable origin installed with a 2X1 adapter on my 170 wagon ran with typical off-idle bog. No difference with bigger or smaller jets (?). Found Ebay- dirty/as used Capri 2.8 liter (170cid) spec 5200 H/W carb nad and ran great as-is and dirty (?). Swapped in jets to the clean rebuilt carb and still ran like crap, the bog-carb jets put into 2.8 spec 5200 run fine (?) (see emulsion tubes ? ). @ seven years later the 170/5200 still run great... Smooth consistent idle, economical (primary Bbl) light cruise performance and decent interstate ramp 2Bbl max-CFM performance. (I use fuel reg' and filter right in front of H/w)
.
. 
. .
. 
... PS clean "rebuilt" 5200 available,
... your smile-age may vary
When you run a big cam, you might need to change emulsion tubes.
Now three questions.
First, Powerband, what were the stamped Well Tube marks on the ex Cologne V6 5200 you had?
Second. stanyonHave you sorted and verified your 278 Clay Smith cam card yet.
Third. stanyon. You are using the 32 36 DFAV aren't you?
Elsewhere, I've been doing some research, and the 5200 Holley Weber kit has some differences the 32 36 DFAV. Holley calls it a well tube, and it has 14R XXXX re order part number, but is physically stamped with numbers like 04, 05, 74, 75 common.
That is if the well tube is stamped 04 its part number is = 14R 1004
05= 14R 1005
74=14R 974
75=14R 975
Weber has a whole brace of 65 call names skipping through F1 to F87 for the similar 61440.xxx series emulsion tubes http://www.webercarburatori.com/?p=handbook&s=2. There are 13 heights from 30.5 to 53 mm, and about 5 hole and tube width combinations which make up the 65 tubes. Some aren't compatible with the different float types, even though they fit the well/emulsion tube
This is from what Holley and Colt Industries developed the 14R xxxx series from.
The Holley Well tubes and Weber Emulsion tubes can be swapped, and allow the engine to run in a more healthy, higher performance setting. Turbo 974 and 974 well tubes can be used for draw through 5200 and 32/36's, as this is what Ford designed them to do in the 2.3 Carb Turbo Mustangs.
Below is not related specifically to the part numbers of common 32/36 and 5200 series tubes, but it shows graphically what a savage difference in emulsion tube/well tube hole size and pattern does.Air fuel ratio is changed every-time a different emulsion/well tube hole pattern is used.
There are other fuel jet call number differences between Weber and Holley Webers, but once you understand them, the jets and Emulsion tubes can be swapped around if they match.
If you wanna do it from first principals, then listen to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pkFSA_ ... e=youtu.be
And then look at this 61450 series IR Port on Port Weber Emulsion Tube sketch, which isn't for our 61440.xxx series DF, DG, and 5200/5210/5220/6500/6520 series staged and synchro dual throats.
It shows what David Vizard was on about.
and read this. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169101
On the Jeep forum, they have gotten into the Weber 61440.xxx emulsion tubes, and made some custom F-THIS ones very easily from some F7's to suit the 4.0 and 258 Jeep sixes with the 32/36 AND 38 series carbs.:mrgreen:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/weber ... ndex6.html
The only other thing that makes the 32/36 and its 5200 difficult is the little changes AMC/ GM/ Mopar and Ford requested each year from 1969 to 1983 (when these carbs were no longer used in the Big Fours Domestic Pacers, Chevettes, K cars and Pinto's/Rangers and Fox bodies). Each year they did a whole heap of fiddles, and as powerband has found, sometimes with all the bits swapped over, no two behave alike. Usually float setting, air bleeds or axillary squirters are changed subtly, and then you have jets, well tubes and air correctors and curb idle throttle settings and secondary flat or rich spots. Once these little changes are filtered out, you can have a lot of fun.
Now three questions.
First, Powerband, what were the stamped Well Tube marks on the ex Cologne V6 5200 you had?
Second. stanyonHave you sorted and verified your 278 Clay Smith cam card yet.
Third. stanyon. You are using the 32 36 DFAV aren't you?
Elsewhere, I've been doing some research, and the 5200 Holley Weber kit has some differences the 32 36 DFAV. Holley calls it a well tube, and it has 14R XXXX re order part number, but is physically stamped with numbers like 04, 05, 74, 75 common.
That is if the well tube is stamped 04 its part number is = 14R 1004
05= 14R 1005
74=14R 974
75=14R 975
Weber has a whole brace of 65 call names skipping through F1 to F87 for the similar 61440.xxx series emulsion tubes http://www.webercarburatori.com/?p=handbook&s=2. There are 13 heights from 30.5 to 53 mm, and about 5 hole and tube width combinations which make up the 65 tubes. Some aren't compatible with the different float types, even though they fit the well/emulsion tube
This is from what Holley and Colt Industries developed the 14R xxxx series from.
The Holley Well tubes and Weber Emulsion tubes can be swapped, and allow the engine to run in a more healthy, higher performance setting. Turbo 974 and 974 well tubes can be used for draw through 5200 and 32/36's, as this is what Ford designed them to do in the 2.3 Carb Turbo Mustangs.
Below is not related specifically to the part numbers of common 32/36 and 5200 series tubes, but it shows graphically what a savage difference in emulsion tube/well tube hole size and pattern does.Air fuel ratio is changed every-time a different emulsion/well tube hole pattern is used.
There are other fuel jet call number differences between Weber and Holley Webers, but once you understand them, the jets and Emulsion tubes can be swapped around if they match.
If you wanna do it from first principals, then listen to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pkFSA_ ... e=youtu.be
And then look at this 61450 series IR Port on Port Weber Emulsion Tube sketch, which isn't for our 61440.xxx series DF, DG, and 5200/5210/5220/6500/6520 series staged and synchro dual throats.
It shows what David Vizard was on about.
and read this. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169101
On the Jeep forum, they have gotten into the Weber 61440.xxx emulsion tubes, and made some custom F-THIS ones very easily from some F7's to suit the 4.0 and 258 Jeep sixes with the 32/36 AND 38 series carbs.:mrgreen:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/weber ... ndex6.html
The only other thing that makes the 32/36 and its 5200 difficult is the little changes AMC/ GM/ Mopar and Ford requested each year from 1969 to 1983 (when these carbs were no longer used in the Big Fours Domestic Pacers, Chevettes, K cars and Pinto's/Rangers and Fox bodies). Each year they did a whole heap of fiddles, and as powerband has found, sometimes with all the bits swapped over, no two behave alike. Usually float setting, air bleeds or axillary squirters are changed subtly, and then you have jets, well tubes and air correctors and curb idle throttle settings and secondary flat or rich spots. Once these little changes are filtered out, you can have a lot of fun.
1966_l6":aqtmta5m said:
1. Use the fuel jets that came with it for a start.
Know if they are stamped in
Micron (mm times 100), [most common eg 135 for primary]
Flow (cc/min), [often used eg 255 for primary]
Thou [not common eg 53.15 thou]
Holley Weber Part Number [only for 5200/5210/5220/6510/6520, but a primary jet would be 124-255-22R 103-135]
Green ones were close limit jets, which had closer steps, less than 5 units different in cc/min flow rate, sometimes 1 or 2 numbers.
The Weber literature has 61440 series emulsion tubes that tailor the fuel curve more than the fuel jetting. On our Ford Six site, we quote 14 R XXXX Holley Weber 5200 jetting with special well tube numbers like 04, 05, 15, 16, 74, 75, 93, 94 being common but with no data on Weber 32/36 to Holley Weber 5200 interchange available. And that is the real key...Holley USA had worked out everything about there 5200/5210/5220/6510/6520 version of the Weber carb very early on, and the US carbs changed the well tubes much more than the Weber 32/36's ever did, just to make the air fuel ratios suit emissions requirements. When tuning a 32/36, the emulsion tube/well tubes make more of a change than the fuel and air corrector jets!
2. The Stock Emulsion tubes vary depending on the type of choke, most European Weber 32/36 carbs are ex rear drive 1970-1983 Ford OHC engines like those found on some year 1.6/2.0 Capri/Taunus/Cortina/Transit/Granada/Sierra, and are sized to suit the vacuum needs of a 75 to 102 PS 97 to 121 cubic inch engine. Depending on where they were sold (some were ECE emissions engines for Sweden and Switzerland, which used US 1973/1974 Pinto and 1976-1982 Australian Cortina jetting) and where they were made (Spain/Bressel/Weber), they have different set ups for float levels, return lines, float types with different settings, and base jetting and emulsion tubes. They didn't change that much. though, and there is a series number and details on them to figure out what should be there.
Stock emulsion tubes are Primary F50 /Secondary F6 on auto choke 32/36's, or Primary F50/Secondary F50 on manual choke.
All our Falcons down here ran 34 Weber ADM carbs a 34/34 carb with 29 mm venturis, 137 primary and 210 secondary jets, and F66 emulsion tubes on primary and secondary for 120 to 149 ps cross flows, so that's as big on Emulsion tube and jets and venturis that you should go.
You can upsize the venturs to 29 and 31 mm respectively by using MercuryMarc's method
http://homepage.mac.com/jaffes/cometcar ... bum31.html
a stock 5200 Holley Weber, which can be routed out to 29 and 31 mm venturis and still work, as well as flow 336 cfm at 3" Hg like this one by Mercury Marc (an Aussie told him how to do it!)
And your best jetting selections with the stock primary emulsion tube F50/ and Secondary emulsion tube F6 are the following:-
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 3&start=50
Front mounted as per Pinto practice
Redfalken":aqtmta5m said:
Check out his fuel pressure and carb adapter and electronic ignition http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 74#p239874
Sideways mounted as per standard American practice
MiniCJJ64":aqtmta5m said:
And with modified emulsion tubes, drilled jets and accelerator pump stroke
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 93#p539493
aribert":aqtmta5m said:
http://fordsix.com/forum/posting.php?mo ... 1&p=492041
aribert":aqtmta5m said:
stanyon":39mfrpdj said:
The answer I should have given you is
A good start is powerband's 160 to 171 micron primary (63 to 67 thou), and 180 micron secondary (71 thou), which is what the 477 is...477 cc/min.
The 2.8 Capri, Mustang II and Pinto probably ran an F66 primary and an F2 secondary emulsion tube. But the US Holley Weber emulsion tubes are called well tubes, and stamped with special well tube numbers like 04, 05, 15, 16, 74, 75, 93, 94 being common, and I have no interchange to help you sorry. Those Weber emulsion tubes will get you in ballpark without too much fiddling about.
Oh yeah, I found them. The Holley Weber 5200 series 14R 1005 '05' well tubes also fit the Holley G 180 and Weber 32/36 DGV/ DFV/ DIR and 34 ADM. 32 DIR DAR DARA,32 DGV DGAV DGEV,32/36 DGV DGAV DGEV,32/36 DFV DFAV,32 ADF 34 ADF 34 ADM,38 DGAS DGMS ,40 DFAV. Score!
The 14R 1004 '04' are here too
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMULSION-TUBE-T ... 0673209098
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODkzWDExOTE=/$(KGrHqFHJ!8E7)76)zQSBPFRK+!Pcw~~60_57.JPG
