What do I do now

[Guest]

I was on my way back from Phoenix to Houston, I-10 about 70 mph, when I lost oil pressure and trashed the 66-200 with a 64 170 adjustable rocker head on my 64 Econoline.
I need to put a new engine in my toy. What year, cid, block and what year, cid, head would you suggest for a daily driver with a 9"-3.50 rear gear and a Dagenham 4 spd. I am starting from scratch and this is the time to build a strong dependable engine. I drive this on the Texas highways regularly and need to run at 70 mph or better so that I don't become a bug splat on the front bumper of an 18 wheeler.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Dave

 

[CobraSix]

Get a crossflow!!!

Slade

 

[Guest]

Slade, The crossflow idea sounds good and would probably work well, but availability and cost are also factors I need to consider. Anybody have any suggestions using readily available U.S production parts with some upgrades.
Dave

 

[Anonymous]

sowy to hear man that really sucks a suggestion would be what i have on my granada
250cid-1980
stock 80' 250 head milled to about 10:1 compression( if u do use a 250cid you can put 255v8 pistons in to bump up compression if u do this DO NOT MILL THE HEAD)
offy 3x1
264 hydraulic cam
pretty stock bottom end
msd 6al ignition
msd blaster 2 coil
clifford 6-2 header w/port divider
cant really think of much else i have in the motor just cant think now but this should prove to be potent
i would give u some slips but my car isn't on the road yet sowy

 

[addo]

I'm with Slade here. If you're building an engine from scratch, there's going to be little difference in the build costs, but significantly more power and less fragility from the crossflow.

They're becoming more and more available, and have proven to be reliable and long-lived. Parts are in good supply, and can generally be had inside 36 hours (Stateside) when urgent.

I suggest you cost each option as realistically as possible, before passing on it.

Regards, Adam.

 

[rbohm]

8) i agree with slade and addo, go crossflow.

 

[Greywolf]

I have mulled this over myself for a long time.
Firstly, I wanted a simple, reliable engine which would provide 'bang for the buck'. Secondly, I wanted common parts to be available.
Lastly, I wanted to keep the car in the 'original spirit' of the design, that is, use Ford parts whenever possible, not just 'drop in a 5.0', and not using super-fancy, super-rare race-only parts and such.
I cheated a little, but 95% of my parts are off Fox-body Fords, and with the exception of the spindles, pre-1983 (last year of Zephyr).
Of course, I'll be using my X-Flow EFI as an engine.
I chose that because, like the US 250, it's supposed to be dead reliable; it produces as much horsepower as a stock Zephyr can take without reinforcing the subframes, it drops in comparatively easily, and it's still a mid-80s Ford product.
If you are really concerned about going X-flow, consider a US 250 mated to a (V-8) T-5 transmission. This should give you a stronger engine and better gear ratios.
I have heard that spirited driving with the 200 will trash a Dagenham. If so, I'd consider a T-5 or other overdrive trans as part of the package; that should help your fuel economy with that thing too. Gas costing what it does, that will pay for itself a lot sonner than it would have in days past!
Ben

 

[Guest]

O.K. you guys have made me consider the crossflow idea as cost and availablility do not seem to be as big of an issue as I thought it would be. Where do I start looking for a complete X-flow engine if I decide to go that route? Also what are my trans options for a column shift vehicle? This is a 1st generation Econoline with the forward control mid engine design. A direct into the tranny shifter is out of the question with this set up, it would end up 3ft behind the drivers seat. Thanks for your input so far. It is very enlightening.
Dave

 

[CobraSix]

Talk to people around here...Also Ebay will have some pop up from time to time.

Slade

 

[addo]

Both AussieCoupes and Ausheads post here, and have import businesses. Either may be a good contact point - try e-mail. As to the transmission, you could run a C4 or 3 speed manual off the column. There is currently no way of readily fitting an AOD to a crossflow, though one guy is having a shot. Similarly, more than three forward gears on the column would be a slight engineering challenge. I actually want to try this with a cable shifted 5 speed Toyota box, but need time to get it sussed.

Regards, Adam.

 

[weeds]

Similarly, more than three forward gears on the column would be a slight engineering challenge.

I agree, but not too hard. I had a 59 chevy truck in college that had a three on the tree that I had wanted to put a 5 speed, and maintain the column shifter. I started a design, but went no further. Lack of $$$ got in the way.

 

[Guest]

Adam,
I guess I am able to post now, please disregard previuos message in e-mail about posting problem.

What trans do they run behind the Oz engines?

To all OZ small six engine suppliers, please contact me via e-mail if you wish to make a sale. U.S or Aussie. I am not familiar with how one would get an engine from OZ to Houston, Texas USA. Please provide some realistic shipping times and costs when you respond if you are not in the U.S.
Thank You in advance for your cooperation,
David McNair

 

[Guest]

Thanks to all who have responded thus far.
I need a little help with this project. You guys have convinced me that the X-flow can be purchased, shipped, and rebuilt for around the same cost as a tricked out US I-6 engine.
My next question is the transmission. What options do I have for a trans that will bolt to the Aussie block and still be a column shift transmission. Due to the mid engine / forward control design of a 1st generation Econoline I can not use a floor shift transmission. I need this information before I can proceed with the purchase of an Aussie X-flow.
Dave McNair

 

[Guest]

I was talking to one of the guys on the Ford-Econoline.com site about the Aussie six and if anyone had put one in an Econoline. The answer was yes with a few minor modifications. They also informed me that a late model 4spd with O/D can be bolted to the bellhousing. The bellhousing needs to be sourced from an Aussie six manual trans to make this work(something about the bolt pattern on the block not being the same as US engines). Flywheel and clutch from a 250 US six. Do you know anything about this engine, clutch, trans combination?
Dave

 

[addo]

Dave, I'll have a crack at some of the issues.

The bellhousing is a must when importing an Australian engine. You have a few options. There are two that fit a Toploader - one hydraulic and one cable. Conceivably, either could be drilled to suit another trans. This may be easy or hard, depending on where the new holes go.

There's a bell for a three speed tranny, hydraulic clutch. I doubt that it's the same bolt pattern as your three speeds. I can't see you using an Oz three speed, as the shift levers are all on the other side!

There are some other bells for five speeds, that I know very little about. A C-4 is one of my favourite things, so manual trans knowledge gained has been incidental...

A custom drilled bell could be shipped, or shipped blank. This would be a Dellow or CRS product. It would be dearer, but a one-stage solution. Your situation is interesting in the terms of a column shift being essential. Else, it would be a breeze to find something appropriate. The US clutch etc, sounds right.

As for the rebuild costs: You can get a crossflow short rebuilt here (mild performance) for around AUD$2000 - say USD$1200. That's a high price because Sydney labour rates are up there. Melbourne may be cheaper.

To crate and ship a motor (one-off) to North Carolina costs about USD$325; to LA about $50 less. That's just the crating and shipping. You've still got issues at your end - clearing, duties, transport.

Considering the above two paragraphs, one of the best options may be to pick up an engine already in the US and have any necessary rebuild/install parts sent over. This can be done quite efficaciously.

A nice big radiator is always worth looking into. I must check; think the crossflow hose fittings are larger.

Hope this is a step in the right direction.

Adam.

 

[xctasy]

I have four swaps for you to cosider. In reverse order because I'm contrary. :rolflmao:

4.The AOD is the last thing I'd consider on a budget. It's a great gearbox because of the cheapness of picking them up. The AOD only rates 1/10 for strength if not set up correctly. But the TV cable, starter position, flywheel space (164 teeth, not 148 or 157), and lots of annoying little things like sandwich plates and starter types, convertors, backup lights, linkage problems (no holes for B and M shifter)... it all causes hassles. I'm very patient, and my current rides lowly BW 35 auto trans is going very well thankyou. So there's no pressure or any thing. But doing a fast build on a shoestring is mental breakdown material. You can't have a fast, cheap, good job, you can just have two choices. Fast and cheap or good and cheap, or fast and good.


3. Toyota Swap:I didn't want to talk on this until I had photo evidence I could post, but I will anyway. The Cross flow Aussie 200 and 250's ran five different bellhousings to draw from. One was the three speed column shift manual, the other the 4-speed Borg Warner Single Rail, and then the BW T5. The 4/5-speed glass case BW single rail was another. And the earlier non-cross flow Aussie 250 ran the Toploader in the little Cortina 6's and pre XB Falcons before about 1973.

My friend Richie has a Toyota 5-speed 1995 SR-5 Hilux pickup gearbox in his six cylinder X-flow Cortina. He used the stock four-speed Single Rail Borg Warner stick shift trans, and redrilled the bell housing for the Toyota case. One bolt almost daylights the casing, the bottom right form the drivers seat. The Toyota steel case gear box is very strong, has a 5 on the tree gearshift on the Hiace/Tarago vans, and is bullet proof. You could use this. Just use a Toyota cluth throw-out bearing and get a new Ford clutch made with a Toyota centre.

2. The C4 is also a good option. The Aussie engine had a bellhousing like the pre-6 bolt Windsors 221/260/289's. Ford Oz hated to change things, and just decided to stick with the same small bell bolt spacings.(Note that the lions share of Aussie autos I6's was always the Aussie made BW 35 3-speed auto used in Volvo's, Triumps, local Chrysler Valiants etc. The C4 only featured as a heavy duty option.) That's another reason why the Oz 250 has 200-style engine mounts and pan rail. Ford Australia just hated spending money! The Aussie C4's had a different bell housing to mate up to the import US trans . No real drama if you can see an auto future to your ride. Just get the Aussie pre 1980 bellhousing C4 trans. And then attach an Alloy head engine to it. Just make sure the Aussie Starter postion and flexiplate and linkages don't cause a hassle. Don't use the BW 35 or 40. They are ok set up by an expert, but are only 2 out of 10 for strength. The C4 IS 6/10 for strength.

1. My prefered option is using the Aussie Toploader bellhousing. Surely the post 68 3/4-speed 'boxes would fit this, along with the later linkages. They are just 3/4-speed Toploaders. Should be a no-brainer. Get rid of the Dagenham dustbin 4-speed. Then you just need a CMC slave cylinder or rat-trap manual clutch and bingo, you Aussie engine is in!

Hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

I think I confused some of you on two issues.

1st issue is cost. I do wantt to build this once and build it right. When I mentioned cost earlier in the post I thought the engine was US $ 3000 item. Now that I know I can have a rebuildable complete one deliverd to me for around US $ 1000 the cost issue went away.

2nd Issue is the trans. I am going to have to get the trans stateside so that the shift linkage ends up on the left side of the gearbox. I am still a little confused on the bell housing bolt patterns for the trans end. I understand that the engine end uses the old Pre 1964 Ford bolt pattern. From what side of the bell housing does the clutch linkage enter on the Aussie model bell housing.
Dave

 

[addo]

The hydro clutch is on the left (your driver's side) - not sure about the cable. Probably the same, though. The engine end is different to the US old, old bolt pattern. It was the same until about '65.

It sounds like either ship a Toploader bell and redrill, or a Dellow bellhousing drilled stateside. That would almost certainly be hydraulic.

Maybe we need a section on "Aussie Transmissions" in Al's pages or the Tech articles.

Adam.