What is more important to fix/replace first?

[MPGmustang]

Well, I called up the mustang shop about a distributor, They found a DSII for my engine, we can use my existing pertronix. They quoted me 120 for the setup, I really want to take it. (Best bang for its buck so far) I know that the economy will be less but I’d rather have a more reliable system. Adding a MSD box would be awesome…

The LoM I have is a 63 model, with a 65 LoM vacuum canister, It’s the only one i could find.

I want to know what you guy's think on the two kits I posted earlier for the steering and suspension. Anything for the steering and suspension that I should get that is not on those kits?
David- I have not looked into the steering box, or the vacuum. I’ll look at it tonight. Hopefully it’ll fix some play.

I did replace the head gasket earlier this year, I noticed the valve seals were missing or broken or not staying down, I didn’t know it mattered Now it's biting me in the butt... :arg: . I think I did the compression test wrong, it was warm but not up to temp…

When I started the engine after the oil compression tests were done I expected smoke, just not coming from the exhaust manifold every cyl is leaking. I think my manifold is shot. Will be the 5th time this year now… even used ultra copper. That’s why it’s so LOUD…

Btw- this is my DD and I’ve been driving it everywhere even with these conditions, it hasn’t failed on me yet, and I hope it won’t. the upgrades to the suspension will be slow as I would like to do it right, does anyone know of a good write-up of what to do for the suspension, I’m sure I’m going to need a spring compressor.

Thanks
Richard

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Richard:

"They found a DSII for my engine, we can use my existing pertronix."

How do they plan to use a Petronix Ignitor in a Dura Spark distributor? Is it the whole system, distributor, coil, module, and plug wires for that price? Installed?

The suspension and steering kits look good. Have you checked with PST for a comparison? Their # is- 1-800-299-8019.

Adios, David

 

[MPGmustang]

How do they plan to use a Petronix Ignitor in a Dura Spark distributor? Is it the whole system, distributor, coil, module, and plug wires for that price? Installed?

I don't know, i didn't know that you can't do that... now i'm confused... yes the entire price, I already have a 40k coil that i'll be using.

 

[jamyers]

Brakes and Steering FIRST, engine second. You won't care how well it runs if you're in the middle of a wreck.

With most electronic ignitions, you've got two basic pieces: 1. The distributor pickup (think of an electronic set of points), and an electronic module that fires the coil based on the signal from the distributor.

Basic Pertronix is just a way to trigger the ignition coil to fire (#1 above) I think they also make a setup with an electronic module, but I don't know. Duraspark is both #1 and #1, but made by Ford (more reliable and WAY more available). Now, you can use a Duraspark distributor to fire a Duraspark module, a GM HEI module (this is what I'm doing), or an MSD box (I used to do this and can attest to its ability to fire a fouled plug). I'm not sure how anybody is going to use a Pertronix AND a Duraspark, unless they're going to use your existing distributor and existing Pertronix to fire a Duraspark module - and that's NOT going to help you very much.

Here's what I'd do: Pick up a new/rebuilt DuraSpark 1 distributor, cap, and module box at your local parts place (oughta be +/- $75 total?) and swap it in. With the DS1, you can use your existing point-style sparkplug wires. Cap off the SCV port on the carb, set the base timing anywhere from 0 to 10 degrees advanced, then hook up the vacuum advance and drive it. If it doesn't ping under heavy load, bump the timing up 2 degrees at a time until it does, then back it off 2 degrees at a time until it doesn't. Ported vs. Manifold vacuum doesn't matter at all above idle, I wouldn't worry about that finer point (especially since you don't have a ported vacuum source on that carb).

Lots of good info on DuraSpark swaps in the sticky section of this board.

 

[Mercury Mike]

Sounds like you're jumping all over the place.

Glad to hear your breaks are in better shape. Keep practicing at adjusting them and you'll find it easier and easier to make them smoother and more accurate. A good cleaning with some break cleaner sprayed over the shoes and backing plate/spring assembly with the drums off will help with that too. It does sound like you can let this worry off your mind after you adjusted it.

As far as DSII, it comes with a distributor and a control box. You have to wire them up properly, and run the box directly through the ignition cylinder. There's a sticky on how to install a DSII set up here.

Get the Duraspark II setup installed, and from then on, all it will require to change it out to a new engine is disconnect the harness plugs at the distributor, and then when you swap your rebuilt engine in, you can put fresh plugs in with a .045 gap, and your engine will be happy. Plus it's always nice to have your ignition system dialed in before you put a new engine in, so you know it will fire up right away, etc.

Once you've got this engine running nice (even though it's leaking a ton of oil and such) then you can start thinking about rebuilding it. A quick and easy way to go is to just rebuild the head, and change the pan gaskets. If you do it properly, you should take the engine out of the car, put it on an engine stand after having it machined and rebuilt, and do all of your proper torquing and assembling there, where you can rotate the engine, and really get it right BEFORE it goes back into the car. If you properly set up an engine, you shouldn't have any problems with leaks, etc.. With these 6 cylinders, you can put the alternator and ALL accessories on the engine before dropping it in, as long as you leave the radiator out and the hood off.

Change ALL of your cooling/heater hoses, ALL of your vacuum lines, ALL of your rubber hoses for fuel/etc. You have to pull all the old ones off and put them back on anyways, and they don't cost much, so it's not worth having an old hose crack and start leaking coolant or fuel on your nice newly painted motor.

Make sure you use a good break-in technique as well. Once you make it to this point you will have a smooth running car, with proper get up and go (you did say you wanted to use the big head, right?)

Since you're going to be getting a bigger head, the adapter will call for a bigger 1bbl carburetor. I recommend going to an actual carburetor shop (they're still around!) and picking up one that will fit the new head. You will be using DSII ignition, no SCV necessary, so you can use the bigger carb, and the ported vacuum on that carb will do very well with that ignition set up.

Now as far as suspension/steering, do the steering adjustment that was offered in an earlier response. Suspension you just kind of have to go through it and replace all the bushings and all the little stuff, but once you do it and it's properly aligned, there's nothing like it.

 

[MPGmustang]

Since you're going to be getting a bigger head, the adapter will call for a bigger 1bbl carburetor. I recommend going to an actual carburetor shop (they're still around!) and picking up one that will fit the new head. You will be using DSII ignition, no SCV necessary, so you can use the bigger carb, and the ported vacuum on that carb will do very well with that ignition set up

You're saying i sould let go of my pony 1100v ?

Well here's what the vacuum test shows at idle, I have a moveing (exremtly little movement due to rpm idle flucuations) needle from 19 to 19.6ish... It's kinda miss/firing every little bit, but seems steady... If i did have a bad valve i'd expect a larger area of fluxuation that was not in sync with the rpm... the scv vacuum has max 10 (on quick rev... don't know under load) if there was a leak i would've heard it... i'm sure of it...

My oil cap is it letting air in... should it or should i seal it air tight? this could be a dirty problem... unfiltered air getting in... what would you do to seal it?

So what it the best course of action? Valve stem seals... DSII? and run her until she poops?

I'd really like her to rev faster.. maybe I can get a remanufactured LOM and add a MSD box...?

altogether I think there is a few musts...

Valve steam seals
Exhaust Gasket
(i really want to make oil filler cap air tight)

possibly DSII?

A realization hit me... My previous thread "over heatting and pinging" I was over heating because the heat never left the enigne bay , I've tightened the bolts. I sould prebably relace the bolts with new ones as they are rounding out... I don't think the manifold is warped, i think it's because i didn't take care of the retightening....

Thanks,
Richard

 

[Frankenstang]

Ported vs. Manifold vacuum doesn't matter at all above idle, I wouldn't worry about that finer point (especially since you don't have a ported vacuum source on that carb).

Not to split hairs here, but actually ported or manifold does matter, at least with the 1100 scv carb (which in fact does have a ported vacuum source controlled by the scv...which is also why it's important to make sure you use that source and not manifold vacuum with a load-o/scv carb combo). As it states below (from classicinlines tech page), manifold vacuum is insufficient to provide the necessary strength of signal for advance so venturi vacuum is channeled via scv operation (maybe this is cause the load-o's are vacuum advance only AFAIK (I'll bet David knows)...with no centrifugal assist like many dizzies). The load-o and scv carb are engineered to work as a package deal never intended to work most efficiently one w/o the other...although it can be done from my experience scv carb w/o the load-o, but not the other way around.

My main point is I question the overall health and condition of your load-o. Again breaking springs or swapping for subs is going to have you pretty far off the designed advance curve for the load-/scv carb combo...those springs retract the breaker plate as well as meter the rate of advance...something is not right and I suspect the dizzy. I think considering a rebuilt load-o (I'd look for one with less wear, newer old stock if you can find it) running your pertronix should not be ruled out. Not that DSI, II, Mallory unilite, or DUI electronic ignition is a bad idea and most certainly it is an improvement, just pointing out that our ~$400 carbs are designed to run a specific dizzy (mix and match at your own peril ) that you can find for less than $50 (I'm guessing for rebuilt)...a very easy swap, then you could put in some new valve seals which should correct your oil burning and with the advance issue resolved it would give you some time to do the suspension upgrades. I like MCQuay Norris parts (sp?...if you can find them).

EDIT: couldn't rule out a defective Pertronix either...if your LOM was not suspect...and yes again, 'breaking springs' ...in general it's like 'how you eat an elephant...one bite at a time'

http://www.classicinlines.com/Loadomatic.asp

In operation, the Load-o-matic system is very simple. The Autolite 1100 carburetor has a ported vacuum that opens when the throttle blade moves past the port. At idle, the distributor only delivers the initial advance. When the throttle blade moves past the vacuum port, this ported vacuum allows the distributor advance mechanism to see manifold vacuum.

However, at Wide Open Throttle and at higher speed under loads, there is not enough manifold vacuum to provide enough advance for high speed operation. As the manifold vacuum drops, the spark advance valve on the 1100 closes and the distributor picks up venturi vacuum (actually a pressure differential caused by high speed airflow) thru an internal passage in the carb. As the engine runs faster and inhales more air, the venturi vacuum increases and the distributor advances to meet the new demand.

 

[MPGmustang]

Well, I noticed a difference with less advance, less pep but 100% WOT... just something to mention...

so, I'd like to get a distributor that has centrifical advance... the DSII has that right?

I'm iffy on what to do... I don't really know much about the optional distributors...
I don't mind the price tag on these distributors, i'm not on a budget..
I'd very much like to get the DUI as it's "one of the very best" i can find for my engine... will be best to use this with my 1100v? or should i look into another carb for when i get to a new head... maybe someone wants a less than a 1yr pony carb?

thanks for all your help... now i'm going to re-read this link you gave..

Edit: okay i guess it comes down to best performance at higher speeds/rpm with what i can do now... can i get that with the DSII? or will i get better with the DUI? and if I add a MSD box to the DSII or a rebuilt LoM? I have $450 right now that I'd like to invest properly towards better performance... and more money coming in this friday which i suspect will go towards stearing and suspension...


Richard

 

[jamyers]

Since you're going to be getting a bigger head, the adapter will call for a bigger 1bbl carburetor. I recommend going to an actual carburetor shop (they're still around!) and picking up one that will fit the new head. You will be using DSII ignition, no SCV necessary, so you can use the bigger carb, and the ported vacuum on that carb will do very well with that ignition set up

You're saying i sould let go of my pony 1100v ?

Umm, no I'm not. That was somebody else above said that. I'd definately keep the Pony carb.

Well here's what the vacuum test shows at idle, I have a moveing (exremtly little movement due to rpm idle flucuations) needle from 19 to 19.6ish... It's kinda miss/firing every little bit, but seems steady... If i did have a bad valve i'd expect a larger area of fluxuation that was not in sync with the rpm...

That vacuum sounds good to me, I'm with you - your valves are ok, it's your valvestem seals that are shot and leaking oil into the cylinders.

Ported vs. Manifold vacuum doesn't matter at all above idle, I wouldn't worry about that finer point (especially since you don't have a ported vacuum source on that carb).

Not to split hairs here, but actually ported or manifold does matter, at least with the 1100 scv carb (which in fact does have a ported vacuum source controlled by the scv...which is also why it's important to make sure you use that source and not manifold vacuum with a load-o/scv carb combo).
...

Not to split hairs, but I wasn't talking about SCV and LOM, I was talking about hooking up a DuraSpark distributor on an engine equipped with an SCV carb. Like I said, he'd need to cap off the SCV valve on the carb and hook the DS vacuum advance up to a manifold vacuum source, because the SCV carb won't have a ported-vacuum source for him to use. Forget the SCV.

 

[Frankenstang]

My mistake jamyers...but if I didn't know any better this sounds like a shot....

Not to split hairs...

:rolflmao:

 

[jamyers]

My mistake jamyers...but if I didn't know any better this sounds like a shot....

Not to split hairs...

:rolflmao:

Mwa-HAHAHAHAHAHA! :rolflmao:
It's all good...

 

[jamyers]

Richard,

Any distributor other than a LOM will have centrifugal advance.
I'd strongly recommend getting rid of the LOM, and going with a centrifugal and vacuum advance electronic distributor, which means you have 3 choices:
1. DuraSpark I: Ford electronic ignition, available starting somewhere around '73-'74. Has a "small" distributor cap like all of the points-ignition distributors, and uses sparkplug wires with the points-type ends (like you already have). Can use either the Ford ignition box, an MSD box, or a GM HEI module hidden somewhere and will look so stock that 99% of folks will think it's the original setup.
2. DuraSpark II: Ford electronic ignition, starting somewhere around '77? (I don't know). SAME distributor body and guts as the DS1, but has a cap adapter ring and uses a large-diameter cap and sparkplug wires with the HEI-type ends. Can use either the Ford ignition box, an MSD box, or a GM HEI module hidden somewhere and will look mostly stock (except for the big cap and wires) that 80% of folks will think it's the original setup.
3. DUI: Aftermarket electronic ignition based on GM HEI. Completely different distributor body, uses (I assume) the GM large-cap with the coil in the cap (bad place for it, imho) and HEI-type plug wires. Uses an internal ignition module. Looks nothing like stock - in fact it screams "Danger" at you.

With any of the above choices, you'll have to do some wiring work to bypass or remove the Ford resistor wire that feeds the ignition coil, and feed the electronic ignition full 12V all the time, and it's not a bad idea to disconnect the "I" wire from the starter terminal as well since it won't be needed and can cause problems.

With the DuraSpark, you may want to look into messing around with the centrifugal advance springs, there's a lot of Ford variations out there and no telling which one you'll get ahold of - but it's not hard at all, and you may well be perfectly happy with whichever one you get. With the DUI, it'll come with the advance curve already set - which is where (I'm convinced) they get the additional power they claim. Which is why I argue that anybody could get a good curve for their engine and so I'm not a fan of spending $$ on a DUI, but that's a whole other story... :mrgreen:

I don't see any practical difference between any of the above options, apart from the prices. You can hit a junkyard for a DS 1 or 2 setup and DIY for prolly under $50, or you can burn the $$$ and get the DUI - I honestly don't think you'd notice a lick of difference between the 3, but I'm sure you'll notice an immediate improvement over the SCV-LOM setup.

If you want it to look dead stock, get a DS1 and HEI module.
If you want it to look stockish and keep your existing plug wires, get a DS1 and an MSD box.
If you want it to look stockish, get a DS2 and Ford module or an MSD box.
If you want it to look like you spent a lot of money on an aftermarket ignition, get a DUI.

If I was you, I'd go DS1 or 2 with an MSD box.

And KEEP THAT CARB! (Unless you want me to give it a good home...) :rolflmao:

 

[MPGmustang]

And KEEP THAT CARB! .... :rolflmao:

YES SIR (lol, i have no intention of getting rid of my carb... )

I'll grab that DSII they have and slap it in, it's $120 remanufactured so should ack like new. as i don't want to go under the dash to get rid of that resistor i'll stay away from DUI and get the MSD box, should be fun. Do i need the MSD box to get it to run? or the GM HEI modual?

Richard

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back All:

Richard- does the remanufactured DS II include all pieces and parts? Distributor, with cap, module, coil, Plug wires and wiring harness? If so, you will not need anything else to begin with. The problem with running a full vacuum source to a DS or DS II system is that at an idle you engine will be getting initial advance as well as vacuum advance. This also happens as high vacuum cruise speeds, with initial advance, vacuum advance as well as some centrifugal advance, how much depends on rpms. The compromise is to reduce the one, most easily controlled variable- the initial setting, which hurts your low end. You may not hear knock or ping. Be sure to do plug readings after a highway cruise to look for signs of plug glazing or peppering- both silent signs of too much advance.

Since you're determined to go with a new distributor you may want to start shopping for a useable Autolite 1101 from a 1969 Mustang with a 250 engine. It will not have a SCV and will have a ported vacuum source for a DS system. THe 1101 will look like your current 1100. OR look for a Carter RBS carb. It will have a ported vacuum signal for the DS distributor and is rated at 215 CFM. It is a simple, easy to work on carb that was used on 250s from 1970. It will require some adapting of fuel line and linkage.

The vacuum test answered the question about a leaky valve, so valve stem seals seem like a likely place to start.

If the exhaust manifold has not been off/original from the factory, it will not have a gasket to help with seal. There is also a strong likelyhood that the manifold has warped over time. If so, you may find that you will need an exhaust manifold gasket to get a good tight seal.

Have you tried to tighten the steering box yet?

Keep it coming.

Adios, David

 

[jamyers]

Richard,

You need to find out exactly what that DSII setup includes. If it's $120 for a distributor, cap, rotor, and ignition module, then that looks like a good deal. My local O'Reilly wants something like $60 for a reman'ed dist, $20 for cap and rotor, and $65 for a module. (and you'll likely need new plug wires for the DSII).

I still think that the ported vs. manifold vacuum advance is over-rated. The only difference between the two is that ported vacuum goes away at idle. Using manifold vacuum, at idle you'll still have vacuum advance, which means a slightly higher idle speed (and a more-closed throttle) and cooler combustion temps. With ported, you'll lose advance at idle, which means the idle rpm drops, (and so you'll have to bump up the idle speed screw to compensate), and you'll have higher combustion temps - which is why the OEM's used ported vacuum, it was solely for emissions.

While David is correct in that if you use manifold vacuum with a dist that was intended for ported vacuum you will have more advance at idle, I still don't see any issue with that. Your idle speed will be a bit higher, and you can back out the idle speed screw on the carb to compensate. Remember that once the throttle opens past idle, there is NO DIFFERENCE between ported and manifold vacuum. As long as you're not getting detonation under load, you're good to go.

All that being said, some engines do seem to like ported better than manifold, but that's often because of the distributor's advance curve, which is easily changed around. I'd still keep the Pony carb and use the DS setup, if you do have issues it'll be fairly easy to sort them out.

 

[jamyers]

Oh, and it doesn't matter which electronic ignition system you use, you're going to have to bypass the resistor wire and feed it a full 12V. It's not as hard as it seems - do a search here on "bypass resistor wire" and you should get a ton of info.

 

[MPGmustang]

$113 for re-man distributor-mustang shop- $90-napa
$9 for rotor-mustang shop- $3 napa
$10 cap-napa (steel)- $51 mustang shop (brass)
$10 cap adaptor-mustang shop - $6 napa
$25 2 prong ign modual-napa (does anyone have a part number?? i wanna get the right one...)
$85 3 prong ign modual-napa (same as above) (can't i use a GM modual?)

seems lil high... I don't mind the distributor kinda... but it's the only one i found...

Edit: okay after looking into prices I must say i'm disapointed in all that availible, it's quite expensive and i'm down to $300 (bills came up that needed extermination) that i would rather invest towards a head. I think it would be best to stick with economy and go for a re-man LoM, dam... really wanted that centrifugal advance. :x

Thanks
Richard

 

[Vin Man]

I'll have to look through my old posts but I seem to recall you could buy all the pieces new directly from Autozone. All you needed was a year make and model of a car that used the desired system. I think I was told to look at a 76 Fairmont.

 

[JackFish]

78 and up Fairmont.
Check the rockauto prices, I saw a dizzy for $42.

 

[MPGmustang]

Well, I wimped out, but I’m happy with my decision. I went with a re-man 65 LoM distributor w/o T.E.C. (emission junk) and my idle, acceleration, and performance smoothed out. Also a few things I noticed while I had the distributor out.

1. My old distributor was really hard to rotate by hand, unlike my new one that was easy to do so with fingers, also seemed like there was sand inside where it should not have been anything but lubricant
2. The oil down the hole was gunky and grainy, very grainy. I’m thinking I have sludge in the bottom of my engine and I want to clean it out, what's the best way to do so, (mystery oil?)
3. The old plate/vacuum advance had allot of play so with little acceleration the rpm would "bounce" the car because of this... didn't know what was causing it until the new one didn't do it and I looked closer at the older one.
4. My cap inside leads were being "chewed" by the rotor, one side was barely brushed while the others were "gouged" at. I have not replaced them yet but will do so soon.

How easy is it to drop the oil pan and clean the bottom end if worse come to worse without taking it out of the car?
Any kind of oil filler cap that would have an air filter like breather?