Where does synthetic oil come from?

[60s Refugee]

I don't want to start another "best oil" debate here, so please, let's not go there.

I just got off several websites dealing with synthetics. What I wondered was, what is it made of and where does it come from? What I found was a list of un-pronouncable chemical names that pretty much every brand uses. So...if it is made of certain chemicals, then where do the chemicals come from? Corn? Horse hoofs? Peanuts? Crude oil residues? Methane cow farts? What? I know you just don't find these chemicals laying around on the ground (well, maybe you do in the old Soviet block industrial contamination areas, but probably not in Sweden!)?

Harry

 

[Eric Rose]

I always thought it was made by recycling and refining used conventional oil. I could be wrong though.

 

[grocery getter]

it used to be fatty acid based. i'm not sure now.
the fatty acids were oleochemical (from coconut oil)

 

[wallaka]

it used to be fatty acid based. i'm not sure now.
the fatty acids were oleochemical (from coconut oil)

Margarine!

 

[66 Fastback]

As far as I know it comes from crude oil and natural gas. They just process it so that it forms the desired polymer chains that are more stable than conventional oils.
Doug

 

[LaGrasta]

I've been wondering this too. If it's not crude, why does it cost more than crude oil?
Also, if the price of crude is flying through the roof as all gasoline prices indicate, why has it not affected motor oil at all. I've been paying the same price for a quart as long as I can remember.

 

[wallaka]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

Basically there are two main types, those that modify petroleum products and the ones that use some other process.

 

[60s Refugee]

I read that Wikipedia site and that was one of those that listed the chemicals but didn't say where the chemicals themselves came from. I did read on one of them that the Germans got theirs from methane, Co2, and Carbom monoxide, cuz they didn't have access to oil anymore. That's what kept them fighting in the last years of the war. They must have burned coal to get the carbon monoxide. The methane would have been tricky back then. They probably got the Co2 from water probably.

Harry

 

[jahearne]

Crude oil is organic, right?

 

[wallaka]

I read that Wikipedia site and that was one of those that listed the chemicals but didn't say where the chemicals themselves came from. I did read on one of them that the Germans got theirs from methane, Co2, and Carbom monoxide, cuz they didn't have access to oil anymore. That's what kept them fighting in the last years of the war. They must have burned coal to get the carbon monoxide. The methane would have been tricky back then. They probably got the Co2 from water probably.

Harry

The Germans got most of the stuff by processing coal. They still have a lot of that. The process uses hydrogenation to work. Just like making Crisco.

 

[66 Fastback]

You can gasify the coal and refine it down into liquid products. The same is done with some shales that contain hydrocarbon. These are relatively expensive methods of mining and cooking the ore.

Two of the biggest "plays" over the past decade has been drilling into coal bed methane gas and shale gas. Understaing the process, both of these rocks will leak off methane.
Doug

 

[60s Refugee]

So synthetic oil is still basically a petrochemical based product with a little bit of fake butter thrown in for taste ! I just knew it had to come from somewhere.

Harry

 

[66 Fastback]

Yep. It is kind of like all the hype about Hydrogen. Most of the hydrogen comes from processed Natural Gas. So you still aren't getting away from hydrocarbons.
Doug

 

[Lazy JW]

....Just like making Crisco.

And about equally palatable

 

[Bort62]

Yep. It is kind of like all the hype about Hydrogen. Most of the hydrogen comes from processed Natural Gas. So you still aren't getting away from hydrocarbons.
Doug

Actually, nearly all of our hydrogen comes from the electrolysis of water which uses electricity made from hydrocarbons

So your point still stands.

 

[falcon fanatic]

Yep. It is kind of like all the hype about Hydrogen. Most of the hydrogen comes from processed Natural Gas. So you still aren't getting away from hydrocarbons.
Doug

Actually, nearly all of our hydrogen comes from the electrolysis of water which uses electricity made from hydrocarbons

So your point still stands.

Actually, a Danish (I think, maybe finnish?) company manufactures some nifty stand-alone hydrogen stations that are self-contained and run from solar panels on their roofs, so no hydrocarbons (beyond those used to manufacture the stations...)

 

[SteveS]

I always thought that synthetic oil came from synthetic dinosaurs. You know, the ones that the Sinclair stations gave away in the 60's.

 

[Bobscoupe]

Yep. It is kind of like all the hype about Hydrogen. Most of the hydrogen comes from processed Natural Gas. So you still aren't getting away from hydrocarbons.
Doug

Actually, nearly all of our hydrogen comes from the electrolysis of water which uses electricity made from hydrocarbons

So your point still stands.

Actually it comes from non-renewable sources such as natural gas.

http://www.princeton.edu/~chm333/2004/H ... rimary.htm

Bob

 

[Bort62]

Yep. It is kind of like all the hype about Hydrogen. Most of the hydrogen comes from processed Natural Gas. So you still aren't getting away from hydrocarbons.
Doug

Actually, nearly all of our hydrogen comes from the electrolysis of water which uses electricity made from hydrocarbons

So your point still stands.

Actually it comes from non-renewable sources such as natural gas.

http://www.princeton.edu/~chm333/2004/H ... rimary.htm

Bob

I stand corrected! I guess what I meant is that large-scale hydrogen production would have to be from electrolysis, and as such is not a viable hydrocarbon replacement.

 

[60s Refugee]

But you see Ian, that's been the selling point of Hydrogen right along, that is, that it could be massed produced using electricity to convert water into hydrogen and the result would be nearly zero emmissions. Unfortunately, that's exactly why we can't do it right now, it would cost more energy to make it than would be produced by the resulting fuel. The new fuel would cost double or even triple what the cost of gas is on the market. It would also require an entire new nation-wide infrastructure to be able to use it. I have read that we already have engines that will run on it, just no hydrogen gas stations!

The only way we could produce enough hydrogen at a cheap enough price would be to generate more fossil free electric. Geo Thermal, Hydro, Nuke, Wind, Solar would do this, but most fail after environmental impacts and cost considerations are added in and in the end would only ease the overall shortage of electrical generation capacity we already have (ie any new plants would go to residential and industrial uses rather than some new application). To produce hydrogen in huge quantities we'd have to build Hoover Dams all over the place and only use them for hydrogen generation! It would take a goverment sponsered WPA or similar works program dedicated to doing it. The costs would be too high even for Exxon Mobile to commit. Just getting a new dam past the tree huggers would take years even if it were possible. So, though hydrogen cars and oils are possible, and even desirable, it's not likely any of us will see it in our lifetimes or until population decreases and demand on the generation grid drops. That sure ain't likely any time soon, if ever .

Harry