New guy questions

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Cribbs74
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New guy questions

Post #1 by Cribbs74 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:59 pm

I have a couple questions cornerning the 200CI, first does anyone know how much it weighs fully dressed?

What is the difference between a large log and a small log? Besides size I assume.

My block casting numbers are C6DE- 6015-B that is found on the left side of the block. On the right side the is a FoMoCo logo cast into it and underneath it says 5M21.

I was told it was pulled from a ‘67 fairlane.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #2 by rbohm » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:39 pm

as i recall, a 200 weighs in at around 400lbs fully dressed. i think someone will give a better weight than i will.

a large log head is just that, a log manifold that has a larger volume than the small log head does. it also has a larger carb mounting flange, a 1 3/4" opening vs the smaller log 1 1/2" opening. the large log heads also are flatter on top than the smaller log heads are.

the large log head also has a larger combustion chamber than the small log head.

when you find a large log head, grab it as the deficiencies are easy enough to overcome , IE skimming the head to reduce the size of the combustion chamber.

one more thing the large log head have larger valves than the small log head,
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Re: New guy questions

Post #3 by B RON CO » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:57 pm

Hi, get a copy of The Falcon Performance Handbook to get the most out of your Ford 6. You will learn about heads, blocks, carbs, ignitions and a lot more.
What is the engine going in?
What are your plans for the car?
Start reading the old posts and see what people are doing.
Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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Re: New guy questions

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:47 pm

C6DE-6015-B these Casting / Design numbers Decode like this

C = Stands for the Decade Ford designed the part (1960)
6 = The Year added to above decade (1966)
D = The Ford car model part was designed for (Falcon)
E = The Ford Department the part was designed for (Engine)
6015 = Fords Generic Part Number for an (Engine Block)
B = The number of times the part was improved (2)

5M21 is the exact day the part was cast at the Ford engine foundry it Decodes as this

5 = the year of 1965
M = the month of December
21 = the day
So December 21, 1965

This block would have been orginally installed in an early 1966 year model Ford or Mercury car! So if it came out of a 1967 Fairlane then it would have had to be swapped in or installed later on in its life. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #5 by chad » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:18 pm

nice car (if still around, 6th gen I think) handsome AND
1 of my favorite 'cheros - the only 1 w/the stacked headlights.
Some 1 on here has 1...

W E L C O M E !!!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: New guy questions

Post #6 by Cribbs74 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:51 pm

B RON CO wrote:Hi, get a copy of The Falcon Performance Handbook to get the most out of your Ford 6. You will learn about heads, blocks, carbs, ignitions and a lot more.
What is the engine going in?
What are your plans for the car?
Start reading the old posts and see what people are doing.
Good luck


1958 MGA. It’s a non-original engine car... I am having a tuned 1800 done up for the car, but intrigued about the possibility of installing an inline 6. Many British cars had Ford engines installed in them. I was thinking of modifying the log to accept dual SU carbs. Mild performance build to give it some pep to round things out.

I was considering a 302, but the amount of cutting involved made me lose my interest in that conversion.

With a stock output of 120hp and 190ft lbs of torque and an AUW roughly the same as an MGB engine it would be a good candidate for a swap.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #7 by Cribbs74 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:54 pm

bubba22349 wrote:C6DE-6015-B these Casting / Design numbers Decode like this

C = Stands for the Decade Ford designed the part (1960)
6 = The Year added to above decade (1966)
D = The Ford car model part was designed for (Falcon)
E = The Ford Department the part was designed for (Engine)
6015 = Fords Generic Part Number for an (Engine Block)
B = The number of times the part was improved (2)

5M21 is the exact day the part was cast at the Ford engine foundry it Decodes as this

5 = the year of 1965
M = the month of December
21 = the day
So December 21, 1965

This block would have been orginally installed in an early 1966 year model Ford or Mercury car! So if it came out of a 1967 Fairlane then it would have had to be swapped in or installed later on in its life. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Very informative, thank you very much for writing all that out for me.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #8 by Cribbs74 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:55 pm

rbohm wrote:as i recall, a 200 weighs in at around 400lbs fully dressed. i think someone will give a better weight than i will.

a large log head is just that, a log manifold that has a larger volume than the small log head does. it also has a larger carb mounting flange, a 1 3/4" opening vs the smaller log 1 1/2" opening. the large log heads also are flatter on top than the smaller log heads are.

the large log head also has a larger combustion chamber than the small log head.

when you find a large log head, grab it as the deficiencies are easy enough to overcome , IE skimming the head to reduce the size of the combustion chamber.

one more thing the large log head have larger valves than the small log head,


Guess I am on the hunt for a Large log then.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #9 by Cribbs74 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:59 pm

Thanks everyone for replying and I appreciate the warm welcome.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #10 by gb500 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:50 am

ford six with twin SU's : about page 6
from a classic hot rod magazine article :
archive/www.classicinlines.com/HA1.html


Image

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Re: New guy questions

Post #11 by B RON CO » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:47 am

Hi, the Ford 170 is about 2800 cc, so just think about how much more motor your getting. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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Re: New guy questions

Post #12 by drag-200stang » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:57 am

If you could swing an aluminium head for a, on a 200 it would be a nice package.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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sm ford6 in lght bodied same era Brit coup

Post #13 by chad » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:35 am

"...ford six with twin SU's : about page 6
from a classic hot rod magazine article :..."
(Hot Rod July 1967)

How Many Carbs?
they like the 4 Kliens even better and
we have several threads on logatomy (or as in X: a logectomy) w/
1 per cyl (i.e., 6 motorcycle carbs).

One nice mod can B seen on YouTube, a 2 vid presentation.
I don't think ol AK ever got to 'one per' but he did get up to
10:1 compression, re-camed it & use an A/F gauge...

I think in an MG the additional weight will require suspension/brake/steering changes. What was done to the Sunbeam when replacing it's 4 with the ford 289? May be not that radical extent of mods (200 # difference).
Last edited by chad on Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: New guy questions

Post #14 by CZLN6 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:27 pm

Howdy Crebbs and all:

Super cool project!!! Thanks for sharing. FYI- The original British MGA four cylinder engine were quite heavy and tall. How did your engine weight comparisons come out? Is there a reason why you are thinking of a 170 rather than a 200 engine?

Great project. Keep it coming.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: New guy questions

Post #15 by Cribbs74 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:51 am

The MG 4 cylinder weighs in at 400lbs dressed and the 200 Ford is roughly the same +/- 20 lbs from what I gather. Of this is true then the only mod will be the addition of disc brakes up front, mostly just to compensate for the increase in overall power. The extra length of the engine itself will be shifted towards the rear of the car.

The engine I have is a 200, not sure why the 170 came up.

I thought about 6 individual carbs, but syncing 2 is painful enough, I don’t want to mess with keeping 6 carbs in tune. Now 3 carbs is doable and something to consider.

I would love the aluminum head, but crap that thing is pricey. I like everything about this 200 Ford, just not the log head, Why only the small sixes have the log is a little confusing. I’ll probably be grinding off the carb mount cast plate and brazing a cover onto it, brazing SU carb flanges into the side of the intake. I could go with 2 1 3/4 HS6’s or 3 HS 4 SU carburetors. If I can find a Large log I will be doing the intake mods with that instead.

More to follow, project is really at the dream stage as I have a ‘66 VW to get road worthy for my oldest Daughter. After that it’s game on!

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Re: New guy questions

Post #16 by CZLN6 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:46 am

Howdy Back:

My mistake on the 170. Ron mentioned it and my mind went astray.

Are you planning on using the stock hood? Have you looked at side clearance for the side draft carb?

You have a great project. A well built 200 in an MGA sure gets my "what it" juices going. Keep us posted as you progress.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: New guy questions

Post #17 by Cribbs74 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:19 pm

CZLN6 wrote:Howdy Back:

My mistake on the 170. Ron mentioned it and my mind went astray.

Are you planning on using the stock hood? Have you looked at side clearance for the side draft carb?

You have a great project. A well built 200 in an MGA sure gets my "what it" juices going. Keep us posted as you progress.

Adios, David



Thanks David,

The stock engine and the 200 are roughly the same width so side to side clearance shouldn’t be an issue. Also, the intake and exhaust manifold will be on the passenger side which will afford more clearance.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #18 by Cribbs74 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:56 am

What method are you guys using to modify the stock 200 intake manifold? Brazing? Nickel welding? Are you heating the head prior?

Also, can improvements be made to the stock head to increase flow? Larger valves? Porting etc.

I am just wondering if I can work with what I have or of I am better served finding a large log head.

Thanks,

Ron

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Re: New guy questions

Post #19 by rbohm » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:22 am

Cribbs74 wrote:What method are you guys using to modify the stock 200 intake manifold? Brazing? Nickel welding? Are you heating the head prior?


all of the above, or precise machine work, or JB weld.

Also, can improvements be made to the stock head to increase flow? Larger valves? Porting etc.


yes the stock head can be made to flow better, small or log head the plan is the same. larger valves, porting of the valve bowl area, by smoothing it out and blending the seat into the valve bowl. on he exhaust side you can also open up the ports themselves by matching the opening to the gasket, and blending back about 3/4".

I am just wondering if I can work with what I have or of I am better served finding a large log head.

Thanks,

Ron


in the end you can improve the small log head. the reason most of us go looking for the large log head is because you get even more improvement with the same modifications due to the greater fow capacity of the head.
64 falcon
66 mustang
05 grand marquis

my mind is aglow with whiriling
transient nodes of thought
careening through a cosmic vapor
of invention

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200i6 in 60s MG

Post #20 by chad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:09 pm

/OR/
chop off that asthmatic thing &
go multi-side drafts.
(Solex, 50s 'vett, SU, Weber, "motorcyl.")

Plenty threads on that here too.
(Oz, USA & way back Lymie).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: New guy questions

Post #21 by Cribbs74 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:51 am

Thanks everyone,

I guess it comes down to how much power do I need? With the MGA weighing just over 2000lbs, I think 150hp and over 200ftlbs would serve me well.

If I can reach that goal with head mods, camshaft and carburetion then maybe I don’t need to get too far into it.

What say the experts?

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Re: New guy questions

Post #22 by CZLN6 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:57 am

Howdy Back All:

"If I can reach that goal with head mods, camshaft and carburetion then maybe I don’t need to get too far into it."

Add increased compression ratio and a good exhaust system for the complete package. That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: New guy questions

Post #23 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:55 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:Thanks everyone,

I guess it comes down to how much power do I need? With the MGA weighing just over 2000lbs, I think 150hp and over 200ftlbs would serve me well.

If I can reach that goal with head mods, camshaft and carburetion then maybe I don’t need to get too far into it.

What say the experts?


The weight of an installed 200 engine in full dress is slaightly less then 400 at 385 pounds. With a little work you can get that down a few more pounds say with a late style gear drive mini starter, small import type alternator, GMB aluminum water pump, etc. you can get real close to your H.P. power requirements (125 to 130 HP) and likely exceed the 200 Ft. lbs. torque with a modest budget, careful selection of parts and without a lot of work. With the torque of a Performace built 200 six in such a light weight car it sould be quite impressive.

X2 increased compression and a good exhaust is a great plan. If you need to regrind the crank consider offset grinding it to bring the pistion up to a zero deck height which would give you slightly more engine size too or you can mill the block some. Good luck it sould be a real fun ride. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #24 by Marcorod » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:16 am

What’s up guys, this is my first post and thanks for accepting me to this vast collection of knowledge. Administration told me to make intro and wasn’t sure where to do that. First of all I just rescued a 1963 f100 from back yard, guy promised me it would start right up so I got to work his son had tried to lower it by putting rear axel under leaf springs with body lift kit and drive shaft hit bottom of bed??? But I put everything as it was, did tune up, added tires and sure enough a little gas in carb fired right up added pictures. I have many questions about truck but am not sure how to go about asking them or where? But I am new so lend a hand thanks
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Re: New guy questions

Post #25 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:04 pm

Welcome to the Ford Six site Marcorod, looks like a good solid truck to work with, the 1961 to 1966 trucks are a big faveriote of mine. However this is the forum for the small Ford six engines 144, 170, 200, & 250's so that won't be of much help on your pickup unless someone swapped in a small six, have also seen that a few times in the past too.

Since your truck is a 1963 it probally has one of the great 223 sixes, again unless someone swapped in something else. Have you ID'ed the engine yet? And if that's the case that it has a 223 you should probally use the Vintage Six Forum for postings regarding the engine, so you get more specific help and info. There are also forums for trans, suspention, brakes, etc. and even a forum for trucks in general too. In these you can make a new post in and get help and info from more site members. Good luck on your pickup! :thumbup: :nod:

Vintage six engine forum

viewforum.php?f=18
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New guy questions

Post #26 by chad » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:49 pm

click on this for even more:

index.php

scroll thru there 4 even more info re:'our site'
and post in "Intros"...we'll C if we can help Ron (the OP) any w/a 200.
So...

W E L C O M E !!!

stick round'n thanks for the pic!
8)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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