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Starter Question

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james singleton
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Starter Question

Post #1 by james singleton » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:53 pm

My starter went out, and in trying to replace it, there has been some confusion as to the correct replacement starter at my local Auto Parts store. Here is what I currently have: A 64' bellhousing ("with a 3-bolt pattern-starter") that was orginally behind a 64' - 170cid engine, w/standard transmission, on a 64' Econoline van, but this bellhousing is now behind a 66' - 200cid engine. I was informed by a Kragen Auto Parts salesperson that the "bad" starter I brought in to them is actually for an automatic transmission. So this 'bad' starter (that is supposedly for an 'auto trans') has been working on my 'standard transmission' for more than several years with no problems. The teeth on both my flywheel and the (bad) starter appear to be in good shape, so evidently the teeth were meshing quite well.

So I guess my question(s) here is this: Has anybody had a similar problem in trying to locate the proper starter for a 64' bellhousing, that has a standard transmission?? Also, is there any difference between a starter for an automatic transmission versus a standard transmission?? Some of the starters appear to be of either the 'two bolt pattern' type, while some starters (like mine) are of the 'three bolt hole pattern' variety. Thanks for any input! James

P.S. Since there were no 200cid engines installed from the factory on the 1961 to 1965 econoline vans, I have tried cross-referencing a starter from a 64' (and 65') Ford Fairlane (which 'did' have the 200cid engines as an option) and this appears to maybe be an option. I am ready to purchase this starter (for the Fairlane), but I am curious "if" anybody else out there has ran into a similar problem locating the proper starter for a 64' belhousing with a standard transmission??

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rbohm
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Re: Starter Question

Post #2 by rbohm » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:28 pm

8) to my knowledge the starters interchange with no issues.
64 falcon
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kukm66
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Re: Starter Question

Post #3 by kukm66 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:41 pm

James:

Aren't you in the Phoenix area? If so, PM or email me as I do have some cores.

For reference(6 cylinder only):

Early Econline standard bells were 3 bolt type
Some C4 200 bell housings were 3 bolt type(except late 81 thru 83)
80 fairmont, 3.3l/C4 high mount starter was a two bolt starter.
All 2.77 bell housings were 3 bolt type
All Dagenham bell housings were 3 bolt type
All 3.03 bell housings were 2 bolt type
Not sure about Fordo 2 speed

Anyone that has corrections or additions chime in and I will edit this.

If my memory serves me well, the noses were slightly longer on some or all of the automatics due to the position of the flexplate/torque convertor vs the flywheel.
I am not absolutely sure on this however. I can check this a GenStar here locally. They have been around since dirt.

We need a reference page for this as this question has popped up in the past.
Last edited by kukm66 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1964 Falcon Futura Convertible
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james singleton
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Re: Starter Question

Post #4 by james singleton » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:35 pm

KuKm66, I am not in the Phoenix area; I am in S.Cal. If memory serves me here, my bellhousing is the orginal bellhousing that was in my 64' Econoline, and was orginally behind the stock 170cid engine. I have installed a couple of 200cid engines in the van over the years, and I changed out the transmission ( to a 3.03 trans.) quite some years ago. The bellhousing has a 3-bolt starter (up high; not low).

As far as the 'longer noses' on the starters for automatic trans., I believe you might be right on that one. When I ordered a new starter earlier this week, I told them I needed a 1966 starter for a 200cid engine (since I have a 66' block) with a standard transmission, and when the starter came in, it was a 'two bolt starter' (not the 3-bolt starter that I needed) and the length was different between the two starters. James

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Re: Starter Question

Post #5 by rbohm » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:59 pm

8) kukm, the starter in my 80 fairmont, 3.3l/C4 high mount starter was a two bolt starter.
64 falcon
66 mustang
05 grand marquis

my mind is aglow with whiriling
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kukm66
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Re: Starter Question

Post #6 by kukm66 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:41 am

rbohm:

Is the bell currently installed or off the car?
If it is off, take a pic and post the casting number.

Anyone else have a different bell configuration, please post along with pic and casting number.
1964 Falcon Futura Convertible
1964 Ranchero

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Re: Starter Question

Post #7 by rbohm » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:39 pm

8) unfortunately i dont have the car any more.
64 falcon
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'68falconohio
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Re: Starter Question

Post #8 by '68falconohio » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:54 am

For the starter info page...
The part number for a '68 200/C4 starter and an FE engine/C6 is the same at Autozone. This is for the guys that want mini-starters. EDIT: This is a 3-bolt starter
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james singleton
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Re: Starter Question

Post #9 by james singleton » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:37 am

Follow-up on my starter situation: I ended up ordering a starter for a 65' Ford Fairlane for a 200cid engine. On the website for Kragen's/O'Reiley's they did not differentiate between a Fairlane with an automatic transmission and a Fairlane with a standard transmission (on the 200 engine); so I ordered the 65' Fairlane starter and it is perfect match for me. It is a 'three bolt starter' (which I needed) and it seems to be what I needed for my 64' Econoline bellhousing (I have a 66' - 200cid engine). James

66conv6cyl
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Re: Starter Question

Post #10 by 66conv6cyl » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:47 pm

I have also an unindentified starter which I bought along with som spare parts a few years ago. Is thsi the long nose version for AT or the one for MT?
pls scroll down to the reply dated on feb 13th.
http://www.norskmustangclub.no/phpbb/vi ... 4&start=48

james singleton
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Re: Starter Question

Post #11 by james singleton » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:46 pm

66conv6cyl, I looked at the picture of the starter that you mentioned, and the starter in your picture looks just like the one that is on my 66' -200cid engine (with manual trans.), but my bellhousing is from a 64' Econoline that orginally had a 170cid engine. "If" I am not mistaken here, and don't take my word for it, a starter for a 66' -200cid engine with an automatic transmission (which is also using the stock 66' bellhousing) uses a "two-bolt starter", and I believe (?) it is approximately a half inch longer than the "3-bolt starter" that would be on a 64' and 65' - bellhousing. I may be wrong here, so maybe somebody else can verify. Good Luck! James

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