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Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

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reweb67
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Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #1 by reweb67 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:14 pm

1967 Mustang with stock 200 six. Car oil fouls 2 plugs in about 5 miles of driving. Cylinders look wet if I look inside the plug hole with a flashlight. Others cylinders are dry. Have done full tune up and rebuilt carb. Compression is 180 to 190 all.

I used the rope trick and pulled the valve spring on one of the oil fouling cylinders. Guide looks out of round and valve stem wiggles a bit on the guide. Here is a picture. Time to pull the head? :bang:
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reweb67
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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #2 by reweb67 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:36 pm

Another picture...
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wsa111
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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #3 by wsa111 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:25 pm

Pull the head & have a qualified machine shop replace all the valve guides & install vitron valve guide seals. While you have the valves out back-cut the intake valves with a 30 degree cut after lapping in the valves. This may add 5-10 HP because of increased intake flow.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:26 pm

reweb67 wrote:1967 Mustang with stock 200 six. Car oil fouls 2 plugs in about 5 miles of driving. Cylinders look wet if I look inside the plug hole with a flashlight. Others cylinders are dry. Have done full tune up and rebuilt carb. Compression is 180 to 190 all.

I used the rope trick and pulled the valve spring on one of the oil fouling cylinders. Guide looks out of round and valve stem wiggles a bit on the guide. Here is a picture. Time to pull the head? :bang:


If you can wiggle the valve much then yes it's time to pull the head and have the guides replaced. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #5 by reweb67 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:18 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I spun the engine by hand and lowered the rope down so the the valve would drop a 1/2 inch. Wiggling is worse like that. Has a nice solid clunk clunk noise as the valve stem hits either side of the guide walls.

Sounds like I will have to pull the head. Here is my question. If the valve seal is in fair shape (still complete and relatively flexible) Is it possible for a ton of oil to drip down the guide? My rubber valve seals do look ok.

If I understand umbrella type valve seal right, they only ride tight down on the guide when a car is at speed right? I noticed when I pulled the valve cover that some were up off the guides and some were sitting over the guides.

Maybe oil is dripping through the guide at idle enough to foul out my plugs in the cylinders with bad guides? Is this likely?

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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #6 by mustang6 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:25 am

If you can wiggle them like that, then yes that is a big source of your oil fouling problems. The umbrella seals only marginally help, and they don't stay down. That's why Bill recommended the vitron valve guide seals in your rebuild, they are attached much more positively to the head (that's why machining is necessary) and help control the oil better.
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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B RON CO
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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #7 by B RON CO » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:21 am

Hi, in the 60s and 70s the valve job was normal after 100,000 to 125,000 miles. You did the work or got another car, and sold the oil burner as a mechanics special. Your car already had a valve job because I see spring shims in the picture. If you love the car and the hobby get it done right. There are many machine shops that are happy to work on vintage engines, and the parts are easy to find. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

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1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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chad
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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #8 by chad » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:48 am

yes, as part of a good machinist job that area would B machined so 'umbrellas' R never used again.
Just 1 of the 'moderization' operations done on head wrk. Plez learn ALL of them & specific 1s
needed for ur application/end use of the vehicle - so U can point them out to the machinist when
dropping off the head.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #9 by CNC-Dude » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:20 am

The valve stems can also have wear on them, keep in mind that when two parts rub together they both wear out. So this could end up being a multi-wear situation and the valve stems needs to be checked for wear and the valves may need to be replaced as well, so don't assume its just the guides.
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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #10 by reweb67 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:21 pm

Appreciate all the info.

The plan is to suck it up and pull the head. Not happy about it though. I only have 25 or 30,000 on the engine since it had a full rebuild. Guessing they only knurled the guides then so that is why I'm having to do this :evil: .

I do want it fixed right. Will have the new guides milled so viton seals can be used and check the valves etc to be sure they are ok.

After I get the head off I will ask here what else you guys may suggest I have done while it is off. Thanks again! :beer:

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chad
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Post #11 by chad » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:55 pm

"...what else ... may suggest..."
C above referenced Handbook'n Tech Archive -
(a Level III machining as seen in Tech Archive under 1 of the "Hopping Up")
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Valve stem wiggles in the guide? Guide out of round. See pic please

Post #12 by drag-200stang » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:33 pm

I would not sink any money in that dog log unless I could not find a late model with larger log, valves and hardened seats to freshen up.
Unfortunately it would need to be milled to keep the compression up and a larger carb.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
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best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
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