My completed small six turbo conversion

Hello, I was asked to give the particulars of my build so I figured I would start a new post so it is easier to find for anyone doing a search or may be interested in doing this.

First let me say that my intention with this project was to take a page from Linc's 200 project drag car and adapt his idea to my daily driver. I too am very budget conscious and used what I had while spending the necessary money where needed for reliability and always erred on that side of the coin instead of trying for a few extra horsepower. I have not taken the car to the dragstrip and doubt that I will, but I have raced before and would guess by my experience in "seat-of-the-pants-ology" that it is a 14 second car at 5 pounds of boost. I took it up to 15 PSI once and it pulled VERY hard and felt like a 13 second car without a doubt. Nothing to write home about, but keep in mind this car runs 87 octane, starts immediately in 10 below zero weather, commutes 400 miles to work, on a weekly basis, and returns 30+ miles per gallon.

There are many new parts on this project and a ton of used ones as well, but they all work just the same. I will try to summarize what I did and the mods I made but will gladly elaborate for anyone that needs that info. Just ask. 8)


My pile of parts are as follows:

1979 large log 200, all stock with a fresh re-ring and bearings, 260 comp cam, stock short block, no special head work etc. just real bread and butter stuff here. One barrel Holley 1946 carb with a few mods, a boost referenced mechanical pump and a DS2 with timing locked at 28 ish degrees.

I installed the fresh engine in the car last winter along with a T5, it was previously an automatic car. I drove it for a while naturally aspirated and broke it in and I then added the turbocharger on a long weekend as this is my daily driver and it had to get me to work the following Monday.

The turbocharger is a cheap eBay hybrid unit with an internal watsegate, 50 trim wheel, .63 A/R hotside/.50 A/R coldside. It is a 150 dollar turbo brand new all day. I planned to replace it with a better unit at the first sign of trouble but it has been absolutely trouble free so far. I also bought a cheap intercooler and installed it at the same time. Turbo Oil supply and drain lines were stuff I had in the garage from other projects and the intercooler piping was leftover 2.25" exhaust scraps and radiator hose. I made the carb hat out of sheetmetal and more scraps.

The other guys (Linc's200 and Bort62) detailed the actual installation and all that is entailed much better than I ever could so I won't bore you with that stuff, but one thing they were right about is the need for a ton of welding. I bought a used 110 volt wire feed welder and I basically taught myself to weld with it on this project, Its nothing to be afraid of guys, really.

I will update with some more info if I think of it or answer any questions on here or via PM. I will be glad to help anyone where I can.

good info .

any bigger pictures ? those thumbnail s go to a photopbucket thumbnail .

gb500":2xtkquco said:

good info .

any bigger pictures ? those thumbnail s go to a photopbucket thumbnail .

Click to expand...

If you arrow forward, there are better pictures.

Drew

Yes, I have some more pics I will try to get uploaded if it would he helpful. Will get on it as soon as I get a chance.

as a novice building a turbo six, I'll try to stay on-topic without getting too excited... 8).

... this is more a question of simple theory:

my current turbo project expanded to include intercooler, and not sure I get it . Besides choice of @ $90 E-Bay "universal" or maybe a (plastic plenum) Sprinter Diesel IC, all with hoses and clamps , boost pressure through seems' flimsy hoses and any size alum' IC's works fine ? (with typical BOV and WG) .

How much and what durations of actual boost-pressure in typical driving and T&T race. ?. 15PSI occasionally ( 15 PSI once and it pulled VERY hard ) sounds like a lot of pressure to build to seal if it was a sealed container (like an air tank or tire), but with intake engine pumping vacuum, what boost pressure sealing is simple and practical with linkages and other unavoidables' . Is boost vs ambient air pressure confusing me?

Trying to get a simple real-world description of pressure factors for build-fab needs ?. very interested in 2Bbl blow-thru fabrication project and/or pressure-box around carb experience and simplicity works for me.

thanks

Thinking of changing over to blowthrough eh powerband? 8)

I too have one of these universal intercoolers and I bought the "bar and plate" style in a size that fit in front of my radiator. It is a very well built IC and am very happy with it. The deal with an intercooler and the associated piping is this: The bigger the intercooler, the more effective at cooling the charge but also the more turbo lag as all that volume must be pressurized before it reaches to the intake valve and that takes time. It is probably more academic than anything and you would probably not notice any real difference unless the IC and the piping were enormously overdone. My intercooler is about 12x20" ish and the piping is leftover galvanized 2.25" exhaust scraps from the rest of the car. I used this small size to keep costs down by using radiator hose to connect things instead of the fancy silicone couplings at 15 bucks a piece. Radiator hose will hold 15 or 20 psi in a cooling system just fine so I figure as long as boost pressure gets no higher than that, I would just use rad hose and pocket the money saved.

No need to over think the pressure thing really, 15 psi is 15 psi. That pressure will be present in every point from the turbocharger outlet to the intake valve under boost. If there is a weak link anywhere, it will leak there. I would bet any blowthrough system is going to have pressure leaks, but again I think this is actually more academic than anything and that it's rarely a problem. I had asked here and on other forums before I installed the turbo, about utilizing my choke as the "thing to do" was to remove it so things don't leak. I was told it wouldn't work but figured I figured I would try it and if it leaked and failed to make any boost I would address it. Lo and behold, the car makes boost just fine and plenty of it. Again some of these things are just what people hear and repeat. Any leaks that are present in my system are "dry" air anyway and I cant tell they are there. In a draw through system of course, any pressure leaks would be "wet" and thus a mixture of gasoline and metered air and would be a bigger deal. Bottom line on the leak issue I think is this: Whatever pressure is present in the intake manifold is what your usable boost is. If there is another 1 or 2 psi that "leaks" upstream of the intake manifold, its an "oh well" and wouldn't really matter much as long as the charge air is reasonably cool.

As far a duration of boost it all depends I guess. I have my wastegate set at 5 pounds and and just merging onto an onramp it might only be boosting a few seconds, but I have done plenty of sprints from a dead stop to 70 mph and it is boosting the entire time, say 7 seconds or so. In a quarter mile pass if I would stay in it that long, everything from the first hose clamp on the compressor housing to the intake valve would be pressurized to 5 pounds for the 14 seconds or however long it was at WOT. I have been pretty happy with the boost at 5 psi so I have not tried to deal with my fuel issue at higher boost, but it is kind of sounding fun to try it again. Perhaps that issue will be addressed and revisited. 8)

I too considered a boxed carb enclosure but decided a would be easier to seal up a carb hat and went that way.

Edited to add: I also uploaded a few more pics for you guys.

Carb enclosures are a :nono:

Sure, its an easy way to pressurize a carb equally. and it can make fuel a BIT easier to work with... but tuning one would be a ...

Ive been talking to a lot of people about my build and the general consensus is that my carb hat from an old dodge is still a better choice (by now means an EV). Since setting floats, etc, is a bitch in an enclosure. Plus there will always be places to bleed boost. Just need a turbo that makes more than your system loses :rolflmao:

Sorry for the duplicate post mods, this was supposed to go here:

Just sent this video to a member here and thought a few of you guys would dig it. It is just a short video of my wideband and boost gauges during a measured quarter mile on a closed road. I took the vid on my phone for my own benefit so I could look closely at the gauges after my carb tuning so the quality is bad, but it sounds pretty cool and I thought Some of you guys may like it.

After going over the video a few times with a stopwatch it comes very very close to what the gtech on the windshield indicated: 14.20 ish at 92 mph. This is not top fuel funny car fast at all of course guys but I am still pretty happy with the fact that this is a 200 inch nearly stock engine with a ONE barrel carb running 87 octane gasoline, and during this run never exceeded 4000 rpm. Its is also an incredibly driveable car that commutes 180 miles one way and nets 31 plus mpg.

Ford inline six. 0 - 90 mph, 12 psi: http://youtu.be/d5eNTz0MAwI

Stock replacement springs in the head? With stiffer springs and the boost, you should be able to go to 5K or more. I know mine would choke at 4k with the Motocraft 1946, no boost, with the stock springs. I had an E0 head in an 80 Capri.

In fact they are the original valvesprings. As it turns out, it took only a .030" shim and they were exactly what comp recommended for this cam. I see no evedince of valve float.

It keeps pulling over 5000 or so and seems to make good power up there, unfortunately for me when rebuilding the shortblock I let slide an extra half thou on the #5 rod journal and it makes a little racket when spinning that high. I just keep the revs down until the engine is out again for a freshening. I never thought it would live this long with all the beating I give it anyway.

. I never thought it would live this long with all the beating I give it anyway.

... hear that a lot from small block six enthusiasts...

Circling around my turbo build assembly and debating how much head and valve train work to start with. I have a pristine/steel shim' D7xx 250 with 62cc chambers spec'ing @ 7.8:1 static CR with .050 head gskt.

The 250 turbo target' bottom end is clean, low miles with stock cam. Turbo cam selection for the 250 isn't resolved - available "TURBO CAM" selection seems primarily all-out high RPM / FI performance. I want to add to the 250's already torquey' powerband with turbo enhancement so initially may keep the stock cam. Valve spring upgrade and back-cut valves maybe helpful even for the stock 250 block / cam carbureted turbo setup. (cam @ 256 / IO=10 / IC=66 / EO=58 /EC=18 / OL=28 / 368 lift ).
... available- suitable street / strip cam /spring /lifter info appreciated for fairly stock US 250 with carbed turbo setup adapted from a similar sized carbureted, puhrod gasoline six cylinder engine.



On a high compression head build, my favorite machinist used FSP Handbook recommended 302 valve springs, cut the spring seats and towers to fit better seals, tacked in the port divider and back-cut valves. With 48 cc chambers and steel gasket it runs close to 10:1 static CR for @ 7 years of fun performance on a 170 - . I never thought it would live this long with all the beating I give it... .

have fun

I agree with your desire to keep the low end torque and would stay conservative with the cam as well as the headwork. The turbocharger is the great equalizer here and you have to keep in mind that it is the boost that makes the most power per dollar spent.

What is a cam swap really worth if you don't optimize everything else with custom pistons and the aluminum head etc. ? It MAY net 5 horsepower or so on a stock engine MAYBE. A turbocharger pushing 15 psi however, will nearly DOUBLE the horsepower you started with. In other words, for the money spent on big valves and a cam change I think the gains would be minimal compared to the cost involved. It would be pretty easy to spend 1000 dollars for headwork and a cam kit while only having it yield another 10 horsepower but for half that money you could install a turbo and intercooler and double the power. Just being realistic. I vote that you use what you have and boost the helll out of it!

... still circling on build and appreciate useful input. I'm assembling the draw-thru BOP type turbo from a 3.8 GN type V6. I considered trying bolt-on turbo setup on a healthy 170 but decided the available 250 setup and drivetrain in my '61 Comet is better candidate for possible serious power. Comet now has tri-power 250 with 5.0 radiator, elec fan, DSII, T5/ 8" Mav rear (3.80 Posi)... with tranny out considering final gear and maybe Toploader 3 speed option for 'loading the turbo' needed for low RPM torque I've been reading ? , also have two 2.79- 8 inch gears centers,

Low miles 250 is Mav' 6 to V8 swap rescue' , I measured head chamber volumes and aiming for little under 8:1 SCR and playing with distributor advance plate limits (maybe elec ign/retard box )

while tranny is out considering final gear and maybe Toploader 3 speed option for 'loading the turbo' needed for low RPM torque or so I've been reading ? , also have two 2.79- 8 inch gears centers,

... finishing brackets, oil feed return and vac' setup for 250 assembly on a run stand .

have fun

... also have another healthy 250 for next stage bottom end build ?, and so-so 200 8)

Awesome man! I'm excited that its coming together for you! Sounds like you have a good plan with the exception of T5 to 3 speed swap. That is definitely a step backward man and the T5 and the 2.79 would likely work very well for you. I have this combo in my Fairmont and it loads the turbo a bit too well and also goes down the freeway at 1700 rpm at 70 mph. 8)

I love everything you have done with your I6. Please take this as a total affirmation of everything you guys have done to make the good features of the Ford I6 in 200 and 250 form fit with turbo charging. I don't argue with a turbo that pulls a 1.86:1 final drive, gets better than 30 mpg (32.6 mpg in fact) and does low 14 second passes. All arguments stop at that point!


One very important point I have is that I have to maintain all factory emissions and power options, so the common "friends of Lincs 200/Bort 62/Does10's" method of just axing the A/C and and non inclusion of any air pump emissions doesn't wash with me, nor does a single carb. On that basic, not having air is a whole reason for some of us not to even want a turbo Ford six. Emissions compliance is not seen as an issue to most here, but when you get a 90 day order to correct or scrap, then it is. For some reason, its okay to have a reworked small block Ford with technically illegal emissions hardware in a Fox or Miata, but the moment you get a stock 3.3 I6, the emissions Nazis slug your ride with a burn notice.

Example? From the Four Eyed pride forum, another good place where it isn't dirty to be i6:-

NAVYCAT having to sell his totally original White Magic Capri 3.3, ultimately letting his car get exported to an Aussie owner , terrymwash, who is our 81Capri200 here at Ford Six Performance.


See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... s-going-2V!

and http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... This-SUCKS!

It seams like we are a little against using the normal battery positions, the stock late model emissions exhaust, air pump, stock power options, and very gun shy of the better Carter YFA and Holley Weber 5200 or aftermarket Weber 32/36/DGEV 38 carbs with more than the stock tiny venturi area carbs. Even the triple Autolite 1101/Holley 1940 big bore carbs 62Sedan Delivery used on his 220 hp 250 66 Mustang are better than the tiny triple Weber ICT'/ICH stuff that grounds out at 180 hp. There is a problem that people don't seam to be able to mix proper carbuation with turbos...the idea that the carb has to be the restriction point to tune is wrong.


Since 1973 to pre 1996 emissions are all just part throttle tests, you can add a staged secondary set of 1-bbls, or perhaps three DGES 38's, which can be able to serve a 200 cubic inch engine right out to 227 hp 5300 rpm before even adding a turbo if three carbs venturis are upsized to 34.5 mm via the time honored Holley Weber rout out...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30391&hilit=Holley+Weber+carb

The typical 300 six set up of YFA Carters is very easy to swap into a small I6. Colton Anderson's youtube 79 F150 is a typically early American example of what can be done on a budget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOKbQLEv1pA

606 cfm of carburation was never, ever easier than three 1.4375" venturi, 1.6875" stock emissions era Carters.




I am going to the left hand A/C unit like on our early X-shell Fords, and the US X-shell 250 air pump relocation so all the emissions gear allows just enough space to fit the stock EGR.


The key is that Ford Dearborn did billions of dollars developing the little I6 in the 70's just to get it through the US Federal sniffer test. The post 1975 250 ran different accessory positions to the 200 after 1975, and those changes make it possible to package the air cleaner, a/c, air pump, and battery without full on strip outs of well engineered Ford bits. The Fox car changes were then in opposition to the 250 engine in the early X shell Granada, Monarch and Versailies...that's why its such a son of a you know what to package and emissionize.

The trick is to use the Type 2 250 accessory re-location.



This allows the US 250 air pump to work, and allows space to then fit a carby Fox 2300 turbo position.





I'm also using a dual out let exhaust from the stock 1981-1983 3.3 thermal cat to a 2300 carb turbo on the drivers side, but running one pipe to a stock 5.0 GT cat on the left, and a cross over through the sump to the drivers side turbo.




Lastly, the use of the Cologne 4.0 V6 138 or EAO 2.0/2.3 135 teeth Ranger 5-speed auto is possible.

So you can then use stock Ford everything.


My FAZER6Ti uses the set up described above.

Ford guys here have paved the way to fix the problems with matching turbos and great carburation to I6's.

The idea first came from Lincs 200 over the prospect of better induction.



see Multiple TBI's (revisiting)

old link was viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26454&start=0



First big break was the awesome triple 1.75" hole adapter, the best one from one from our member here rwbrooks50.

The offy is too tall and too small in porting to work well, so your better off making a low deck welded intake like on rwbrooks50's website

http://s529.photobucket.com/albums/dd33 ... 0Ranchero/





None of that namby, pamby, la-de-da small a$$ 1.09 or 1.4375" inch outer carb hole crap the Offenhauser and Edelbrock bolt on log adapters force us to stomach...

The Argentinians have been doing it for years...






viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68971&p=528460#p528460

A stockish engine, and a lot of good networking from all of us will make this thing work, I'm certain.






Like this Exhaust cross over through the early X-shell sump like this low mount blue c4/c5 automatic 200 block

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=68983

1965Pony":2j5hw9uy said:

Here are pictures of it. It's actually pretty clean and evidence of a rebuild at one point is there . The block does have the EXXX BB on it .

Thanks for all the great in depth info . Hopefully I will have her up and running this weekend.

Click to expand...

And 5 speed auto trans mission adapter like this:-


Any 5R55 trans behind a 138 tooth Ranger, Explorer or Mustang with a Cologne V6 can be used to mate to any high mount small Ford i6 with a Luiz Camilo style adapter



I sent this to RickWrench about his Brazillian mate who used and perfected the kit back in the early Naughties

"Way back, I remember your brilliant Brazillian friends Alfa Romeo GTV 5000 with 302 Small block Ford with a Cologne V6 gearbox adaptor plate, 138 tooth flywheel and its 5 speed gearbox mated up to down size the 141/148/157/164 tooth bellhousing enough to fit in the 1750 derived engine bay.

Done a heap of research, mixed and matched some photo's




and I'm gonna use the idea myself. I can ad lib it from here, but do you still have any contact with him, and if so, what thickness was used, and how does the little 138 flywheel mate to the 3" pitch 6 bolt 3.625" crank flange. Is he making a kit. If not, its a really good idea and would allow all the stronger 5r55 auto gearboxes to fit behind any 302 small block."

Hahaha... Thanks xctacy! I always dig your posts. You put more time and thought into writing things here than anyone and it shows. Thanks for your support and all your information!