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Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

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Phil wells
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Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #1 by Phil wells » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:13 pm

Hi all,

I am currently replacing a 144ci in my 60 Ranchero with a 67 200ci mustang engine.
Could I ask for some advice on carburetors and distributors required? A little background on the cars

The 1960 ranchero has a 144 with manual column change and a manual choke, it has a rebuilt Autoline carburetor from Canada C 732 and stock distributor which work well. the engine needs rebuild so I have purchased a 200ci out of a running 67 mustang that was available.

The 1967 mustang engine was mated to an automatic that did not come with the engine, it came with a distributor that has an old Hays electronic ignition conversation unit, I'm not sure if it's the original distributor, it has Motorcraft stamped on it. The carb also has a tag on it stating Motorcraft with the following ID tag, DOPF L C 6K20. I can not find any background to the numbers on it, I believe it could be a later replacement, it looks like a holy 1940 somebody has made a spacer like adopter at the base, please see photos the engine also came with the Californian emission manifold with all the extra pipes attached, I'm not intending pluming that in.

The plan is to mate this 200 engine to the ranchero manual column change that is in the car, id also prefer to keep the manual choke. I'm assuming the new 144 carb i have on the ranchero at the moment won't work with this engine, I know the carburetor that came with the 200 is for an automatic and I'm also not sure on the distributors to use from the two.

I'm thinking to just purchase a new rebuilt carb and distributor from rock auto to run with the original manual choke and manual gearbox but I’m not sure which ones to order as there are options

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #2 by chero1369 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:34 pm

Hello Phil Wells,
I hope you like to read.
Pics didn't load,pretty common here,which is why I gave up on them.
So,first.get the numbers off the head on top of the intake log,then the numbers on the starter side of the engine(the 200).There are decoders to tell you what you've got.And peoples will be asking for this info,a lot.Oh, and see about getting "The Book".It's worth it in time saved,wasted effort.
And be honest with yourself.What do you want the Ranchero to do or act.Are you going to be happy listening to that 277 grind going into first all the time?
but for advice?From me?Put a weber on it with a Duraspark 2.Then start shopping for everything else to bring the car into the 21 century.
And now,I think I see a dust cloud rising from the rest of the crowd.
Good Luck.Have fun.

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #3 by bmbm40 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:55 pm

So a 144 I guess was what was available at the time? but I thought the 170 was also available. It is good you found this site. The worlds leading Ford small six authorities are right here and will be showing up soon. Definitely get a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook. It is a valuable resource for the exact mods you are talking about. Ford used a few bell housing designs and related clutches etc.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #4 by B RON CO » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:39 am

Hi, the engines you have are very similar, and also very different. The 200 is a modern evolution of the 144. The 144 has the old
Load-O -Matic distributer, and Spark Control Valve carb. The distributor, distributor shaft, and oil pump are different (smaller). It also has a road draft tube, no PCV system. It is also only drilled for the small bell housing. The carb inlet is also the smallest.
So the fast and cheapest way to swap the engines is to use the 200 as a long block, using all the bolt on parts from the 144 like the flywheel, generator, etc. Guys here will probably have the correct LOM distributor and SCV carb to fit the 200 (you can't put the later distributor on the early engine, I'm not sure about putting the early distributor on the later engine, I don't know why it wouldn't work, but the carb is too small.
It is probably the right time to get a new clutch kit.
That being said, there is a lot more potential in the 200, and it is a lot easier to improve on the 200. To say nothing about the later stick shift tranny choices.
As mentioned, get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook to get the most out of your Ford six. The authors have a chapter about putting the later engines into the early Falcon.
There is also a lot of important info in the tech archive on this website. I would start there and learn all you can about the Ford six engine family.
Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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bubba22349
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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #5 by bubba22349 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:35 pm

Phil wells wrote:Hi all,

I am currently replacing a 144ci in my 60 Ranchero with a 67 200ci mustang engine.
Could I ask for some advice on carburetors and distributors required? A little background on the cars

The 1960 ranchero has a 144 with manual column change and a manual choke, it has a rebuilt Autoline carburetor from Canada C 732 and stock distributor which work well. the engine needs rebuild so I have purchased a 200ci out of a running 67 mustang that was available.

The 1967 mustang engine was mated to an automatic that did not come with the engine, it came with a distributor that has an old Hays electronic ignition conversation unit, I'm not sure if it's the original distributor, it has Motorcraft stamped on it. The carb also has a tag on it stating Motorcraft with the following ID tag, DOPF L C 6K20. I can not find any background to the numbers on it, I believe it could be a later replacement, it looks like a holy 1940 somebody has made a spacer like adopter at the base, please see photos the engine also came with the Californian emission manifold with all the extra pipes attached, I'm not intending pluming that in.

The plan is to mate this 200 engine to the ranchero manual column change that is in the car, id also prefer to keep the manual choke. I'm assuming the new 144 carb i have on the ranchero at the moment won't work with this engine, I know the carburetor that came with the 200 is for an automatic and I'm also not sure on the distributors to use from the two.

I'm thinking to just purchase a new rebuilt carb and distributor from rock auto to run with the original manual choke and manual gearbox but I’m not sure which ones to order as there are options


Hi Phil, you will get much more responses by posting your questions over in the small six engine forum that's dedicated to these great little six'es (see the link below). If you want I can also move all these posts over to that section for you.

viewforum.php?f=1

As some have already posted above knowing what is the planed use for your Ranchero and how much do you what to spend or change would be helpful as to the suggestions. Or you maybe just want to get it running and driving by using as many of the available parts you already have? The pictures didn't post, If the 200 engine is from a 1967 Mustang with the California emissions that Distribitor is one of the better point type units and if you have all the Hays electronic ignistion parts you could use it or you could also go back to the old 1967 to 1974 point system parts.Personally I like the electronic systems. The 144 distribor can't be used in the 200 nor most of its parts. You can use the 144 flywheel, clutch unit, clutch linkage parts, throw out bearing, bell housing, and transmission, all these items will bolt up directly to the 200 block. As was stated above you can also use the Generator from the 144 and it will bolt right up, or If your your 200 engine came with all the front dress parts including the Alternator then it's very easy to swap those parts into your Ranchero electrical system for a big improvement. The existing carb on the 200 could work or there are numerous other choices depending on if it's stock or mild build up or if your going for more performance, even the 144 carb could be used on a Tri power (Offy) system with a second one for the two end carb's along with a bigger center carb. Good luck on the swap :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Phil wells
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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #6 by Phil wells » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:58 pm

Hi Bubba
Could you please move post to suggested
Thanks

Phil wells
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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #7 by Phil wells » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:12 pm

Thank you for the replies so far offering advice,

(chero1369)
numbers on the 200 head are 07be8090ab (7f13) side of engine d8be 6015gd.
I'm not too worried about the box so long as it fits the later 200ci engine above. I just want a nice running truck, I'm not going for performance, just the 144 is dead and the 200 is available which makes sense to change as its a better engine.
(bmbm40)
it came as standard with 144 probably 170 also, I'm changing it as a good 200ci came up, where can I buy the book you advised
(bronco)
I guess I need a LOM dizzy from a 67 and an SCV carb to match with the manul choke currently in place, I'm just not too sure which ones to order, I was hoping I could use the dizzy and carb from the 144 I have as I know they are in good order, thought bi may just be able to re-jet it but it sounds like I need a later carb from a 67.hoping someone can tell me what I need to order.
I changed the clutch already, do you know if the 60 ranchero manual column box will fit the 200ci from the mustang ok?
(viewforum)
I can't seem to upload photos, planned use is just to get it driving again with as much from the 144 parts as possible. the 200 engine I have does have California emissions manifold which I'm not going to plum in. all the hayes parts are there for dizzy, not sure on how to wire in, it looks like two-wire go to the coil the rest is to the unit. good to know the clutch and gearbox will work fine with it, I did get the alternator with it, will this plum in fairly easy, wiring is a bit different

Phil wells
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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #8 by Phil wells » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:31 pm

[url]https://www.fordsix.com/img/picture.php?[url]https://www.fordsix.com/img/picture.php?/2651/category/176[/url]https://www.fordsix.com/img/_data/i/upload/2020/01/22/20200122150120-fb72baf9-me.jpg/2652/category/176[/url

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #9 by Phil wells » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:35 pm

[url]https://www.fordsix.com/img/index.php?/category/176

[/url]https://www.fordsix.com/img/_data/i/upload/2020/01/22/20200122150448-5176b7f8-me.jpg

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #10 by Phil wells » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:37 pm


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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:37 pm

HI Phil, I got all your posts moved over to the small six forum. Yes the Alternator swap is very easy to do bolt on using all stock Ford parts hopefully you got all of them with the 200 engine. Besides the Alternator you need it's wire loom it may also be still mounted on the back of the Alternator it then plugs together at the Alternators Regulator this replaces the generator regulator and mounts in the stock location. Next the main output wire (Black) from the Alternator has a big loop connector on the end mounts on the starter solinod (on the the Battery terminal Side). There is also another small loop wire connecter that is a ground this wire this mounts to one of the Regulators mounting bolts and that all there is to the swap should only take you a few minutes to do since the Alternator is already mounted on the engine. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #12 by bubba22349 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:03 pm

Looking through your pictures The 144 stock Load O Matic Distribitor won't fit in the 200 because the early engines used a different oil pump drive shaft that is 1/4 inch the later USA engines after 1964 all used a 5/16 inch oil pump drive. But it's not a worry as your 200 engine already has the way improved 1967 up duel advance Distribitor a much better system for drivability, economy and even better performance. The Hayes electronic control unit is a plus it's also easy to hook up, I would use it. You do have a Holly 1940 carb that you can use it as is with its auto choke, some of these 1940 carb's also came with cable manual choke on the truck versions so you could change out a few easy parts too, or if you want to just exchange it out you don't want a SCV type carb (used from 1964 into 1967) with the Distribitor you have look for a 1968 up carb.

If you really want to go backwards to the Load O Matic (LOM) system then you can order a Distribitor for a 1965 to 1966 200 six then you could try using the 144 carb or order a 1965 to 1966 carb with the manual choke. The performance and economy will not be as good with the old Load O Matic and SCV carb.

To get started remove the 200 auto trans flex and block plate, next install a new pilot bushing (1960 to 65 for a 144, 170, or 200 with the 2.77 trans) in the crankshaft. If your 144 has a new or a good used chrankshaft bushing you can remove it and reuse it hydqrolicly using grease. Then your are ready to swap all the stock 144 clutch, and flywheel, parts off the back of the 144 (the starter too) then transfer them over onto the 200 block. On the exhaust manifold you can remove the A.I.R. Tubes and plug them at the manifold. Good luck on the swap :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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chad
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Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #13 by chad » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:22 pm

OK, over here now - we can all have adja ! :twisted:

##Q 1: we use Matt over at vintage inlines dot com for "The Ford...6 Cyl Performance Handbook" (20, 25 bucks?). He also
'caters to us' w/the 6 different i6 'falcon' (or Thriftpower) engines (adapter is there too, scroll all his prts).
In it (the Handbook) U will find ##Q 2 that ur 200 is AFTER the '64 break so U can easily geta non LOM/SCV dizzy/carb going (still takes some wrk. It means U can skip to the '77 + DSII (duraspark two) dizzy (oem) and a nicer (still oem) carb.

This would B my advice on your above subject line query. Lots more to add (on just this subject never mind the rest of motor...& truck).
##Q 3 plez go to top of this page and click on the 'tech archive" (other Q above) while waiting 4 ur copy of Handbook. Its free and explains the SCV/LOM system, DSII, and much much more. Hasa crossed screwdriver/wrench. Scroll thru there like Vintage Inlines...

U wrk on the 'round body' Ranch? C mine if interested in my avatar, specs in my sig.
W E L C O M E !!!
to the site and this forum!
let us know how things go...
:thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #14 by Phil wells » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:03 pm

Brilliant thanks for all the advice, great help. ill get started and let you know how I get on.

another query, the 60 ranchero has a vacum fuel pump for wipers, will this swap. would actually prefer to convert to electric

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #15 by wsa111 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:10 pm

Go with the DS11 with the MSD-6al ignition box & a coil with low primary resistance. MSD has them.
I can help you with the DS11. viewtopic.php?f=86&t=80657
There are other options with the DS11, but the MSD is the best. Bill wsa111
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #16 by chad » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:20 pm

I din't know Y but a guy on here just complained abt finding a mechanical fuel pump. I like'em better than ele.
I think mine's a Delphi frm a big box store (NAPA or AutoZone) but 1 for any of the 200's yrs would wrk (most likely all 4 'sm blocks').
Bring urs in, take their's outta da bx & compair B4 leavin the store...
I'd get whatever they have but abt 20 mi away we got all them companies.
If U got a '60 I think U hafta geta switch for the dash (any ol toggle). May strain a generator? I'd switch to a 1 wire alternator but that's just me, I'd want that anyway (store the generator 4 later projects or to sell w/the '60 Ranch 1 day in distant future)...
have fun, B safe AND productive!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:20 pm

The 1960 144 fuel pump will bolt on to the 200 and help in operating the vacuum wipers. You could add a small electric pump (pulse type) as a helper, though with a stock engine and carb it shouldn’t really be nessisary. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #18 by wsa111 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:22 pm

As a safety feature get electric wipers.
Yes you need to upgrade to an alternator.
Once that is done scrap the mechanical fuel pump & go electric.
Going electric eliminated all my vapor lock problems in hot weather & helped for a quick start.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #19 by Phil wells » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:07 am

Ok great , thanks had anybody converted a 60 ranchero or falcon to electric wipers that could advice on motor and setup used ?

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #20 by bubba22349 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:12 am

Newport Enginering makes a 2 speed wiper kit for the Falcons see below link for the 1960 to 62 bolt in Falcon kit. If you are handy and can find a later model Falcon (1964 up or others) then you might be able swap that in too, I use to do it that way.

https://newportwipers.com/product/1960- ... iper-motor

Falcon Parts has lots of restoration parts there is a one wire alternator conversion regulator kit that you could use if you don't have the orginal alternator harness and regulator see the below link. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

https://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon ... rs-c23.htm
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #21 by chad » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:13 am

obviously a junk yd ford product would B ideal.
Let's start another thread as this is so different frm "carb/dizzy":

https://www.tbirdforum.com/forums/squar ... sions.html
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #22 by jamyers » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:27 pm

chad wrote:obviously a junk yd ford product would B ideal.
Let's start another thread as this is so different frm "carb/dizzy":
...


Agree on both counts. But I'll toss in here that the wiper "switch" for vacuum and electric is the same part, as it's actually a geared push/pull cable - which means the electric switch is a part of the electric wiper motor, something to keep in mind as you look for parts.
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #23 by Phil wells » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:57 pm

I brought the engine from a guy that removed it from his 67, looking at the numbers, they dont seem to put it to a 67 which i guess may change some of the advice given, The numbers on head D7BE8080AB above that looks like 7F13 on the block its D8BE underneath 6015 GD .

on the dizzy side towards the bellhousing ther are some other numbers (8G13T) 8 ( K252625 ) a 2 on its own and 7212 these look a bit like they have been stamped on

what would this date as?

I will post this and wiper in separate thread also

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Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #24 by chad » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:49 am

C='60s, D=70s for decade; the nxt #=yr if that decade do '77 & 78...
means the block can have a DSII dizzy and head is a lrg volumn etc. Was it thread that the owner got the big cudos on scoring?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Advice with carbs and distributor for engine swap

Post #25 by wsa111 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:25 pm

Wow what you have if properly done will be a giant.
Thanks Chad for what he has.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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