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Alky/H2O injection install

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kirkallen143
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Alky/H2O injection install

Post #1 by kirkallen143 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:24 pm

Well I finally got the alky/H2O injection installed this weekend and let me tell you, it works great.

At WOT no more denotation with 93 octane pump gas and 25* total timing. I tried 28* total timing and had a slight knock, so backed down to 25* total and the bronco has never run better.

I am using the cheap windshield washer fluid, w/ @ 25% methanol advertised. I plan to try the 50/50 mix of distilled water and denatured alcohol after this mixture runs out and see if I can up the timing some more. At WOT the AFR stayed at a constant 11.2:1 with @ 11 psi of boost, and before it would read 12.5:1 AFR with 93 pump gas and 10 psi of boost, and you could hear the denotation. This was running 25* total timing.

This was a DIY job and worth every penny, @ $175.00. Here's where I got the info from.

http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html

Kirk
ps. now all I have to do is find a way to keep the dipstick from blowing out.

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Re: Alky/H2O injection install

Post #2 by hasa68mustang » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:15 am

kirkallen143 wrote:ps. now all I have to do is find a way to keep the dipstick from blowing out.


Advance Autoparts has duct tape on sale for a dollar! lol you have any pics of your setup. I have always wanted to try something liek this but never got around to it.
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Post #3 by grocery getter » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:37 am

nice job,
my jet boat had a threaded dipstick. :idea:

how about a BOV on your valve cover :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Alky/H2O injection install

Post #4 by Does10s » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:39 pm

kirkallen143 wrote:now all I have to do is find a way to keep the dipstick from blowing out.


Just remove it!
Plug the dipstick "tube" with a removable cap that you can clamp.
Put the dipstick in the Bronco somewhere.

We have our's plugged. The dipstick is only in there when I'm checking the oil.
Will
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Re: Alky/H2O injection install

Post #5 by Bort62 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:20 pm

Does10s wrote:
kirkallen143 wrote:now all I have to do is find a way to keep the dipstick from blowing out.


Just remove it!
Plug the dipstick "tube" with a removable cap that you can clamp.
Put the dipstick in the Bronco somewhere.

We have our's plugged. The dipstick is only in there when I'm checking the oil.
Will


I havent had any problems w/ dipsticks yet... just with blowing out oil pan gaskets :(

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Re: Alky/H2O injection install

Post #6 by kirkallen143 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:12 am

hasa68mustang wrote:
kirkallen143 wrote:ps. now all I have to do is find a way to keep the dipstick from blowing out.


Advance Autoparts has duct tape on sale for a dollar! lol you have any pics of your setup. I have always wanted to try something liek this but never got around to it.


:rolflmao: That's too funny, like my grandfather said, "...if it can't be fixed with duct tape or WD-40..."

kirkallen143
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Re: Alky/H2O injection install

Post #7 by kirkallen143 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:28 am

Does10s wrote:
kirkallen143 wrote:now all I have to do is find a way to keep the dipstick from blowing out.


Just remove it!
Plug the dipstick "tube" with a removable cap that you can clamp.
Put the dipstick in the Bronco somewhere.

We have our's plugged. The dipstick is only in there when I'm checking the oil.
Will


Thanks Will, and good idea. So basically just clamp on a rubber vacuum plug, great. I am trying to fab up a connector on the twist in oil breather cap so as I can run a K&N style oil breather filter. I tried no pcv one time and the engine smoked too much for my liking.

I'll get a few pics for y'all, somebody borrowed our camera and we forgot who has it. I did keep all the components in one area behind the radiator core support, opposite side of the battery. Nice, neat and tidy.

Kirk

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Post #8 by Does10s » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:19 am

Kirk,
Here's another idea.
We're not using a PCV at all. I installed on of those Moroso breathers that attaches to the exhaust pipe. It pulls the pressure from the crankcase and puts it into the exhaust.
Now, I think that a tank between the VC and the exhaust would be a good idea. We have sucked oil into that tube and it does smoke out the tailpipe from time to time. So a inline tank would catch the oil but still provide the suction needed.
Here's a link.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MOR%2D25900&N=700+400105+115&autoview=sku

I'm pretty sure that they are not suppose to used in "pollution controlled vehicles" but in an old Bronco it should be fine!
A vacuum pump would be the best method, but they're frigin expensive!
Later,
Will
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'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

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Post #9 by Bort62 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:59 am

Does10s wrote:
I'm pretty sure that they are not suppose to used in "pollution controlled vehicles" but in an old Bronco it should be fine!
A vacuum pump would be the best method, but they're frigin expensive!
Later,
Will


A modified smog pump works wonders...

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Post #10 by jamyers » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:33 am

Stray thought - How about a hose clamped onto the dipstick tube, running to the intake upstream of the turbo, or wherever your pcv is?
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Post #11 by fast64ranchero » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:59 pm

If your blowing the dipstick out try this trick it worked for me, do not hook the PCV valve up to any place that can/will have pressure, hook it up in between the air filter and the turbo, that area has a slightly neg pressure, you have to remember if the PCV is hook up normal it will build pressure in your crank case that could equal or surpass your boost pressure

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Post #12 by Bort62 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:37 am

fast64ranchero wrote:If your blowing the dipstick out try this trick it worked for me, do not hook the PCV valve up to any place that can/will have pressure, hook it up in between the air filter and the turbo, that area has a slightly neg pressure, you have to remember if the PCV is hook up normal it will build pressure in your crank case that could equal or surpass your boost pressure


Well, a properly functioning PCV valve works as a check valve and will prevent this.

But hooking it up pre-turbo is a good way to prevent all of these problems. That is likely the direction I will go with mine.

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Post #13 by kirkallen143 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:50 am

Here are a few pics of the engine and alky/H2O injection as I promised:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24214129@N08/2312487118/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24214129@N08/2312489566/

Here what I did about the dipstick blowing out:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24214129@N08/2312491012/

Here some heat shields I made:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24214129@N08/2312492264/

Kirk

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Post #14 by kirkallen143 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:55 am

kirkallen143 wrote:Here are a few pics of the engine and alky/H2O injection as I promised:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24214129@N08/2312487118/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24214129@N08/2312489566/

Here what I did about the dipstick blowing out:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24214129@N08/2312491012/

Here some heat shields I made:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24214129@N08/2312492264/

Kirk


Browse the other pics and see the full size bronco I picked up for free (w/ a running 400) and my ugly fat a$$.

Kirk

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Post #15 by Bort62 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:36 pm

A man w/ a beer in his hand...

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Post #16 by kirkallen143 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:53 pm

Another thing I did with this install is take my white wire from the ignition module and hook it up to the hobbs switch...

That's right, a poor mans BTM!

It retards the timing @ 5* last time I checked. I have my total timing set at 25* as of now and the hobbs switch activates at 7psi. So now am I spraying meth/h2o and retarding the timing to @ 20* total under boost to keep it safe.

The reason really is that I installed a manual boost regulator inline to the wastegate actuator for more boost, instead of raising the timing, to take advantage of the meth/h2o injection. Been researching and it is better to raise the boost than raise the timing with alky injection. More timing and you are still succeptable to denotation.

And the reason for that, I am getting ready for the sand drags again this year and I am competing against a stroked 347 w/ nitrous (@ 500hp) and another nitrous 5.0 crate motor. Both are AOD trannys. Just because I won it last year out of elimination with a puny 200 inline six and a single T3 and 3.03. I think they might have me this year.

Kirk

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Post #17 by Bort62 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:14 pm

I was running 25* total timing. When I turned my boost up to ~ 10 psi, the motor started bucking and running like crap under load.

I gave it a little more timing (by ear, I know... ) and it smoothed out markedly and pulls very well now. This was not really what I expected. I do have a little ping @ the very top, but nothing I am extremely worried about. Might add a little more water.

So I am curious to know how yours runs w/ that little advance under load.

Of course, my AFR could be totally off. I haven't gotten my JAW together yet.

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Post #18 by kirkallen143 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:50 pm

I am in the process of finding a brass fitting for a power steering pump upgrade, so no motor runs times yet. Oh, I will let you know what happens.

Kirk

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Post #19 by Bort62 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:24 pm

kirkallen143 wrote: Oh, I will let you know what happens.

Kirk



hahaha

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Post #20 by kirkallen143 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:30 am

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 18psi is a rush. Even though I blew off most of my hose intake connections and my carb bonnet base gasket. Lots of denotation even at 20* total timing and meth injection.

15psi is fun too! Blew off carb bonnet base gasket, but no hoses this time and no denotation. Took three more carb bonnet base gaskets until I turned to boost down to 12psi. I use the thick gasket this time and boost will still try to push it out but it is still holding...for now.

So I am at 12psi, 50/50 meth injection and 20* total timing at WOT on 93 pump gas.

Kirk

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Post #21 by Bort62 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:07 am

kirkallen143 wrote:WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 18psi is a rush. Even though I blew off most of my hose intake connections and my carb bonnet base gasket. Lots of denotation even at 20* total timing and meth injection.

15psi is fun too! Blew off carb bonnet base gasket, but no hoses this time and no denotation. Took three more carb bonnet base gaskets until I turned to boost down to 12psi. I use the thick gasket this time and boost will still try to push it out but it is still holding...for now.

So I am at 12psi, 50/50 meth injection and 20* total timing at WOT on 93 pump gas.

Kirk


Runs smooth? I guess I will have to turn down timing and turn up the boost. I'm only injecting water tho, no meth...

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Post #22 by kirkallen143 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:18 am

With the windshield washer fluid (@25% meth) at WOT and 12psi my AFR was 12.0:1 and held constant (20* total timing). The meth is my added fuel I need up top.
I have not done a WOT w/ the 50/50 mix yet, due to a sheared axle at the hub in my 9". I guess that's what happen with 35 year old axles and a spool on the street. Naw, it was probably the rock crawling with not enough low gearing. It had been cracked for some time now, you can see the rust around the clean break at the hub.

I have some Yukon axles on the way!

Kirk

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Post #23 by Bort62 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:46 am

kirkallen143 wrote:With the windshield washer fluid (@25% meth) at WOT and 12psi my AFR was 12.0:1 and held constant (20* total timing). The meth is my added fuel I need up top.
I have not done a WOT w/ the 50/50 mix yet, due to a sheared axle at the hub in my 9". I guess that's what happen with 35 year old axles and a spool on the street. Naw, it was probably the rock crawling with not enough low gearing. It had been cracked for some time now, you can see the rust around the clean break at the hub.

I have some Yukon axles on the way!

Kirk


Congradulations. You just broke a 9" w/ a six cylinder!

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Post #24 by kirkallen143 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:03 am

Bort62 wrote:
kirkallen143 wrote:With the windshield washer fluid (@25% meth) at WOT and 12psi my AFR was 12.0:1 and held constant (20* total timing). The meth is my added fuel I need up top.
I have not done a WOT w/ the 50/50 mix yet, due to a sheared axle at the hub in my 9". I guess that's what happen with 35 year old axles and a spool on the street. Naw, it was probably the rock crawling with not enough low gearing. It had been cracked for some time now, you can see the rust around the clean break at the hub.

I have some Yukon axles on the way!

Kirk


Congradulations. You just broke a 9" w/ a six cylinder!


That's funny!

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Post #25 by jamyers » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:10 am

Bort62 wrote:
kirkallen143 wrote:With the windshield washer fluid (@25% meth) at WOT and 12psi my AFR was 12.0:1 and held constant (20* total timing). The meth is my added fuel I need up top.
I have not done a WOT w/ the 50/50 mix yet, due to a sheared axle at the hub in my 9". I guess that's what happen with 35 year old axles and a spool on the street. Naw, it was probably the rock crawling with not enough low gearing. It had been cracked for some time now, you can see the rust around the clean break at the hub.

I have some Yukon axles on the way!

Kirk


Congradulations. You just broke a 9" w/ a six cylinder!

Dude - I'd get a bumper sticker or a t-shirt, that's worth bragging about! 8)
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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