Order of execution on a build

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Cday07
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Order of execution on a build

Post #1 by Cday07 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Hello everyone!

I’ve been going through a lot of topics on builds and am currently sitting at a crossroads on my own build. I have an 65 Mustang with a 200 motor, C4 auto, 7.25” rear end, and power brakes with a front disc conversion. I have been driving my restoration for about a year now (3k miles since I “finished”) and have been loving everything about it, especially how it stops on a dime and gives you 9 cents change. But I’m developing a deep desire to give it the get up and go that it deserves.

I have a budget of about $4,000-$5,000 for the next phase of the build. My list of what I want to do seems contingent on whether I want to do a tri-carb setup or a turbo (I’m having difficulty finding someone who has done both, so please correct me if I’m wrong). Otherwise, Exhaust will be converted over to dual exhaust, cylinders bored maybe 30 over, new pistons, new cam, new head (possibly sourcing a 250 head for the larger valves as I believe this will be cheaper than doing an extensive port job on the stock 200 head). I have no intention of adding AC or Power Steering. Would anybody like to provide any advice on maybe what order I should do these upgrades in? I would like to still be able to drive the car in between steps (so I can notice the performance changes with each step). I would appreciate everyone’s thoughts, tips, and tricks. I’ve tossed in a picture of my car and motor as well. Thank you guys!
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Current Build:
1965 Ford Mustang 200 build

CZLN6
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Re: Order of execution on a build

Post #2 by CZLN6 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:24 pm

Howdy cDay:

And welcome to The Forum. Yes, it is that good. First off- what a beautiful car!!!! You've done a beautiful job on the "Stang" so far. On planning for the engine mods- a few things to consider- The cam selection and the compression ratio will depend on whether or not you want to stay NA (Naturally Aspirated) or turbo. Each take a somewhat specific plan depending on which way you choose. In addition to budget consider the time your car will be down. I like to minimize down time.

One item that you can start working on immediately while continue to drive your car is finding and beginning on a 1978 and later head. After 1978 all 200 and 250 heads are identical. Stripping, cleaning and prepping the head will be the same for NA or turbo. All '78 and later heads will have the largest valves @1.75" intake and 1.38" exhaust. You may want to consider upgrading the exhaust valve to 1.50". I'd recommend the 1.50" exhaust valves. You mentioned porting- I'd recommend spending most of your porting time on the exhaust. Also on polishing the combustion chambers. We can talk about intake porting once you decide on the intake. Valve train- springs, lifters, retainers and rocker arms will go hand-in-hand with the cam you choose.

While tri-power and turbo are very cool, don't overlook the option of adapting a wide base two barrel. It would be much simpler to build, find help and maintain. Wide base two barrels come in a good range of sizes and could even be turbo charged. Check out the dyno archives on this forum.

Next, I'd recommend tackling an ignition upgrade. Upgrading from your current Load-o-Mati with vacuum only advance to an electronic system will be a complement to your engine now and then recurved to optimize your new performance engine. It can be done on your stock engine with only a few adaptations. I'd recommend the FoMoCo DuraSpark II system which includes distributor, coil, module, plug wires and wiring harness. Some like the GM HEI ignition system called DUI. The DUI system is much bigger in the engine bay and more expensive. Do your homework and it's your choice. In either case Bill (aka wsaIII) will be along shortly to offer his advice. When it comes to recurve and specifics, he's the man.

This ignition will not be a perfect match to your stock Autolite 1100 carb but it can be made to work for the short term.

The head project and the ignition project could be done as steps while planning continues.

That should get you started with your plan. Keep us updated on your thoughts an ideas. We love to share.

Again, Welcome.

Adios, David
Last edited by CZLN6 on Fri May 18, 2018 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cday07
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Re: Order of execution on a build

Post #3 by Cday07 » Thu May 17, 2018 6:03 pm

David,

Thank you for compliment and in depth response! I’ll definitely look into the dyno information. I initially was considering a 2v carb setup, but it seems counterintuitive to me that it would solve the rich/lean issues that afflict cylinders 3/4 and 1/2/5/6, respectively (again, please correct me if I’m wrong). If I were to go the route of a single carb setup, be it a 2v or 4v, would it be worth my time/money to just go straight for the aluminum CI setup for $2k? I’ve been looking on that site for a few months and the comparisons numbers eye popping to say the least.

Thanks, Chris
Current Build:
1965 Ford Mustang 200 build

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chad
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sequence of operations on my build...application is 1st

Post #4 by chad » Thu May 17, 2018 6:21 pm

"... Check out the dyno archives on this forum..."
C big blue box above @ crossed screw driver/wrench ('tech archive') if
not already visiting.
Plez state budget (or HP/tq interest) for more accurate responses. Even application or 'end goal' would assist...
A 200 has alot of variability.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Cday07
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Re: Order of execution on a build

Post #5 by Cday07 » Thu May 17, 2018 8:01 pm

Thanks Chad. I should have made some other parameters known as a point of information. My hp goal is in the mid 200s ballpark. But I want to pour on the coals with the torque and get in the realm of 360-425 ft lbs.
Current Build:
1965 Ford Mustang 200 build

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chad
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Re: Order of execution on a build

Post #6 by chad » Thu May 17, 2018 8:55 pm

ck 'tech archive' above (big blue box) under the Oz 2v head or CI alu head. A dyno expectation can B found at the below link.

ci/DynoRoom-2.html

there's some threads on here bout the motorcycle carbs (I like 6), 3 Weber DOCE, etc
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Order of execution on a build

Post #7 by bmbm40 » Thu May 17, 2018 9:43 pm

Yes that is a good looking Mustang.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

'81 F150 4x4 300

New guy? Get this>http://www.falcon6handbook.com

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bubba22349
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Re: Order of execution on a build

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Fri May 18, 2018 9:18 am

Cday07 wrote:Thanks Chad. I should have made some other parameters known as a point of information. My hp goal is in the mid 200s ballpark. But I want to pour on the coals with the torque and get in the realm of 360-425 ft lbs.


On a tri power with a Turbo “First Fox” was thinking about building one, I don’t know how far he got on his project. I do believe that it’s very doable if you have the skills or know someone to help you do some of the fabrication work. For instance on a blow through system the carb hat would be a custom built part, for a draw through 3 carbs would be a bit easier still those parts would be one off custom for the build.

Looks to me like your are heading for a Turbo build with those stated power requirements. Yes that’s sure a great looking Mustang, good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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wsa111
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Re: Order of execution on a build

Post #9 by wsa111 » Fri May 18, 2018 9:43 am

Chris, nice looking ride. As David stated the GM design HEI is an easy hookup. If you have power steering it will not clear the pump.
Don't confuse a real HEI to the DUI. The DUI is a poor design, its main housing is a 2 piece deal. The result is oil starvation of the distributor shaft & they have had other problems.
I sell the real HEI design with a one piece housing recurved for you application. The DUI just has a generic curve. Check the small six for sale section of the forum & take a look.
The DS11 is really better than the HEI, but requires a module & low primary resistance coil.
Best of luck on your build.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, duraspark II dist. with MSD-6AL. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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