Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2018 Contributors:
StarDiero75, curts56, DannyG, B RON CO, wsa111, Captainslow42, falconcritter
Econoline, THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, 95FordFleetside, turbo6, Max_Effort, WorldChampGramp
cr_bobcat, C.S.Designs, pmuller9, gus91326, rwbrooks50, rocklord, drag-200stang, Big64my79Effie, CNC-Dude, gb500

2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe

1963 170 hesitation issues

Moderator: Mod Squad

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #1 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:38 pm

Background: purchased this car about 2 months ago and was told the engine was redone about a year ago. What exactly "redone" completely entails I am unsure of. It was very sluggish from the start. But when stepped on would accelerate nicely. Problem is I still have acceleration issues unless the timing is set at about 30* BTDC. Question is, would it be possible that the previous owner didn't mill the head and I have a low compression ratio or that the cam gear is one tooth off? I have played and played with the timing and anywhere near factory specs just results in a lot of off the line hesitation.

Work I've done:
-rebuilt and adjusted autolite 1100 to specs given by Mikes Carbs
- new ignition system:points, condenser, wires, plugs, new accel ignition coil
- new vacuum diaphragm on Load O Matic
- I've pulled distributor to check for shaft wobble and make sure it was stabbed pointing at #1 on TDC, balancer lined up on TDC
- I have also lashed all valves to spec

ags290
Registered User
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:09 pm
Location: Mansfield Texas

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #2 by ags290 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:18 pm

Creechn32,

Have you verified that the TDC mark on the harmonic balancer is accurate and has not spun? That would be where I would start. Have you tried to time the engine by vacuum?

Kevin
Kevin
Early 1965 Mustang with a 170

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #3 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:52 pm

Kevin,

I have not timed with vacuum but the timing mark did line up with the TDC mark when I found top dead center to pull the distributor and checked for shaft wobble.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #4 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:10 pm

I just double checked and TDC does line up where it is supposed to.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4220
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'63 170 hesitation issue

Post #5 by chad » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:28 pm

any X I C 1 of these (falcon motor) - the 1st thing I do is ck 2 C if it has a LOM / SCV mismatch.
So many che**y guys get their hands on'em...
:nono:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #6 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:57 pm

It does have an SCV equipped Autolite 1100 matched to the LOM distributor. I can even watch the spark advance as much as possible while using the timing light and accelerating...

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4220
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #7 by chad » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:05 pm

OK, good,
nxt thing - I wuz thinkin like Kev, a slipped HB.

Some times pic help (at least it gives a chance).

"...factory specs..."
add 5* beyond factry. I think guys R finding total = 24 to 34, 36...

Is it an auto?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #8 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:19 pm

chad wrote:OK, good,
nxt thing - I wuz thinkin like Kev, a slipped HB.

Some times pic help (at least it gives a chance).

"...factory specs..."
add 5* beyond factry. I think guys R finding total = 24 to 34, 36...

Is it an auto?



It is an automatic. what kind of pics would be helpful?

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4220
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #9 by chad » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 pm

Creechn32 wrote:It is an automatic. what kind of pics would be helpful?

Any - I wuz just stallin for time while I thought :twisted: But sometimes we see sumpin way off...

Total, all in timing should B up where I posted.

Guy ona current thread here is a lill off due to his auto transmis.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #10 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:08 pm

chad wrote:
Creechn32 wrote:It is an automatic. what kind of pics would be helpful?

Any - I wuz just stallin for time while I thought :twisted: But sometimes we see sumpin way off...

Total, all in timing should B up where I posted.

Guy ona current thread here is a lill off due to his auto transmis.




I will see about getting pictures during the daytime.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4220
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'rebuilt' '63 170 hesitation - C4 problems? less than 34* total timing?

Post #11 by chad » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:16 pm

chad wrote:Some times pic help (at least it gives a chance

to think of other things)
:roll:
:lol:
I lub me some pic!
Last edited by chad on Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8584
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #12 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:45 pm

Creechn32 wrote:I just double checked and TDC does line up where it is supposed to.


Sorry late to the party! How did you check that TDC lines up to mark? Did you pull number 1 spark plug and get that pistion to TDC? If so then that's great. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #13 by Creechn32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:23 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
Creechn32 wrote:I just double checked and TDC does line up where it is supposed to.


Sorry late to the party! How did you check that TDC lines up to mark? Did you pull number 1 spark plug and get that pistion to TDC? If so then that's great. :nod:


That is exactly how I checked it. I pulled #1 plug and rotated engine until piston reached top of stroke. This is why I am reaching out. I've been trying to tune this hesitation out and have been unsuccessful. If I adjust timing until best performance its at about 30* with vacuum advance disconnected. I'm wondering if there is something someone did improperly, previously, that I might not know of. I will add that at that point of timing the engine runs with almost no hesitation at all and runs out strong when stepped on hard....

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4220
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

63 170 hesitation issues

Post #14 by chad » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:05 am

chad wrote: I think guys R finding total = 24 to 34, 36.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
62Cometman
Registered User
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:41 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #15 by 62Cometman » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:28 am

When you say 30* are you meaning for initial advance? Cause that is ridiculous! Factory spec is 6-8 mine is set to 14 cause thats where it ran best at idle. If you are putting in almost double that then im willing to bet your timing set is off or your balancer has slipped.

Also the LOM units do not have any mechanical advance in them they are purely initial and vacuum, so having more initial than stock spec is pretty common, I know you said your carb has been rebuilt but is it possible that hesitation is fuel caused? maybe the accelerator pump is too large or the jetting needs to be changed?
1962 Mercury Comet 170 ci, Dagenham Trans, 2.83:1 7.25 rear.
She ain't fast but she's fun. 8)

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #16 by Creechn32 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:27 pm

62Cometman wrote:When you say 30* are you meaning for initial advance? Cause that is ridiculous! Factory spec is 6-8 mine is set to 14 cause thats where it ran best at idle. If you are putting in almost double that then im willing to bet your timing set is off or your balancer has slipped.

Also the LOM units do not have any mechanical advance in them they are purely initial and vacuum, so having more initial than stock spec is pretty common, I know you said your carb has been rebuilt but is it possible that hesitation is fuel caused? maybe the accelerator pump is too large or the jetting needs to be changed?


That would be for initial advance yes. Hard part I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is TDC marks all line up when #1 plug is removed and piston is brought up. And the car is running well where the timing is set. Idles nice and smooth and accelerates nicely, other than the small bit of hesitation from a stop. Seems like a lot of timing to me so that's why I'm wondering if maybe the timing gears might be off a tooth. I would think the car wouldn't even run being off a tooth on the timing gear though.

Accelerator pump too large? I have thought about buying a premium kit from Mikes Carbs but I'm also suspicious about the carburetor itself. I've also wondered about the jetting. Looks like previous owner purchased a generic Autolite 1100 reman carb from a parts store. It is matched to the LOM but I have had to make adjustments that should have already been made. The accelerator pump actually wasn't adjusted correctly, I had to bend the rod to push the lever out a little. Adjusted with a 3/16 drill bit for a gauge. That got rid of some of the hesitation. I've adjusted so many small things and had improvements along the whole way, like the valves needing lashed, but just can't get rid of all of the hesitation. With the timing lining up on TDC and running so advanced I was curious if it was possible that the cam gear be one tooth off????

On a side note I was reading another post about an Autolite 1100 that had the vent rod removed by a previous owner. My 1100 has had the vent rod removed and the hole plugged. This is one reason why I'm suspicious about this carburetor. Still doesn't explain the timing marks though..... :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8584
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:28 pm

Creechn32 wrote:
62Cometman wrote:When you say 30* are you meaning for initial advance? Cause that is ridiculous! Factory spec is 6-8 mine is set to 14 cause thats where it ran best at idle. If you are putting in almost double that then im willing to bet your timing set is off or your balancer has slipped.

Also the LOM units do not have any mechanical advance in them they are purely initial and vacuum, so having more initial than stock spec is pretty common, I know you said your carb has been rebuilt but is it possible that hesitation is fuel caused? maybe the accelerator pump is too large or the jetting needs to be changed?


That would be for initial advance yes. Hard part I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is TDC marks all line up when #1 plug is removed and piston is brought up. And the car is running well where the timing is set. Idles nice and smooth and accelerates nicely, other than the small bit of hesitation from a stop. Seems like a lot of timing to me so that's why I'm wondering if maybe the timing gears might be off a tooth. I would think the car wouldn't even run being off a tooth on the timing gear though.

Accelerator pump too large? I have thought about buying a premium kit from Mikes Carbs but I'm also suspicious about the carburetor itself. I've also wondered about the jetting. Looks like previous owner purchased a generic Autolite 1100 reman carb from a parts store. It is matched to the LOM but I have had to make adjustments that should have already been made. The accelerator pump actually wasn't adjusted correctly, I had to bend the rod to push the lever out a little. Adjusted with a 3/16 drill bit for a gauge. That got rid of some of the hesitation. I've adjusted so many small things and had improvements along the whole way, like the valves needing lashed, but just can't get rid of all of the hesitation. With the timing lining up on TDC and running so advanced I was curious if it was possible that the cam gear be one tooth off????

On a side note I was reading another post about an Autolite 1100 that had the vent rod removed by a previous owner. My 1100 has had the vent rod removed and the hole plugged. This is one reason why I'm suspicious about this carburetor. Still doesn't explain the timing marks though..... :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:


On the cam timing being one tooth off its not likely though the timing chain could be stretched and or the cam and crank gears worn from lots of use. You can test for bad timing chain and the gears by hand turning the crankshaft to the TDC timing mark then take off the distribtor cap and mark the position of the rotor, now start turning the crank the opposite direction until the rotor starts to move. The differerance of how much the rotor moves compared to the Crankshaft is how much slop there is in the timing chain & gear set.

30 degrees Is way to much base timing! Start back at 10 to 14 degrees BTDC, do you have the point dwell set correctly? The dewell setting Is very important. No the accelerator isn't too large but it may need to be adjusted a little more as you have all ready done. To Work on the accelerators pump shot timing and get the duration right. Stock jetting to 1 or 2 sizes richer should work out close for a stock engine, so start with what you have, and you will need to be sure to get the timing set right first before doing any experimenting with the carb jetting. Due to Ford's design improvements the later model Autolite carb's didn't have the "power vent rods" so yes they can be removed and plugged or you can also swap on one of the later Autolite carb top's. Good luck :thumbup: :nod
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8584
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #18 by bubba22349 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:22 am

Have you done a compression test of your engine yet? If so what were the results. Here is info on how the LOM distribitor works too.
ci/Loadomatic.html

Here are the Stock 1963 170 Tune up specs
Distribitor rotates CW firing order is 153624
Autolite BF-82 plugs gaped at .034.
Basic Points setting gapping them at .025 but for the very best performance your looking for a Dwell setting of 37 Degrees.
Base timing is set to 6 Degrees BTDC for a Standard ( Stick) trans and 12 Degrees BTDC for a Automatic trans.
Idle RPM is 550 to 600 RPM for a Standard Trans and 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto Trans in Drive, parking brake set, AC if you have that is off
Fuel pressure is 4.5 PSI

To get most accurate tune up with a orginal point ignition always use of a tach / dwell meter, and also a timing light. This is the procedure I have used for decades and quickly for a persision tune up.

A good tune up follows this order of work.
1. Set the plug gap to .034
2. Set the points basic setting to .025 after its running set the Dwell Angel to factory spec of 37 degrees.
3. Now you need to set the timing to the 6 degrees (with stick Trans) or 12 degrees (Auto Trans) base timing vacuum line disconnected and plugged. You can also try more base timing to as much as 16 degrees but if there is any hint of pinging when you try it driving it up a slight grade then back it off until it stops. Reinstall the vaccum line to the Distribitor after setting the base timing.
4. With engine warmed up good, choke blade is fully open too. Set the Idle mixture to its Lean Best Idle. ie set to highest idle RPM then turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn to lean it. See Addistional Notes below.
5. Set the curb idle speed to 550 to 600 RPM if standard Trans. Set idle RPM's to 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto trans in drive parking brake set, wheels chocked with block of wood, or you can have someone set in it and hold the brakes.
6. Repeat 4. & 5. To see if it improves anymore. When properly tuned these engines (warmed up) will restart without even touching the gas pedal.

Addistional Notes
You might also test your coils output with the volt / ohm meter to see that it's within spec. Or you can do it by watching the spark color (a Bright Blue) and the lenght it can jump to cap terminal (from 1/2 inch or more).

While doing the tune up settings to the carb mixture and curb idle setting the engine needs everything installed and hooked up just as it will be operated! This includes having the Air Cleaner with a clean air filter installed and the PCV hooked up if your engine has one. If you want to use a Vacuum gauge then hook that up to the Intake Log below the Carb you would be looking for about a steady 17 inches of vacuum at idle RPM. Good luck in your tuning :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
62Cometman
Registered User
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:41 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #19 by 62Cometman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:34 am

Ive done all the steps, just as bubba mentioned, and i can tell you tuning idle circuits with a vacuum gauge is very handy, my motor had a pinch over 20" vacuum once i was done messing with it. It nice to see a visual to tell you if what your doing is good or bad.
1962 Mercury Comet 170 ci, Dagenham Trans, 2.83:1 7.25 rear.
She ain't fast but she's fun. 8)

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #20 by Creechn32 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:10 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Have you done a compression test of your engine yet? If so what were the results. Here is info on how the LOM distribitor works too.
ci/Loadomatic.html

Here are the Stock 1963 170 Tune up specs
Distribitor rotates CW firing order is 153624
Autolite BF-82 plugs gaped at .034.
Basic Points setting gapping them at .025 but for the very best performance your looking for a Dwell setting of 37 Degrees.
Base timing is set to 6 Degrees BTDC for a Standard ( Stick) trans and 12 Degrees BTDC for a Automatic trans.
Idle RPM is 550 to 600 RPM for a Standard Trans and 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto Trans in Drive, parking brake set, AC if you have that is off
Fuel pressure is 4.5 PSI

To get most accurate tune up with a orginal point ignition always use of a tach / dwell meter, and also a timing light. This is the procedure I have used for decades and quickly for a persision tune up.

A good tune up follows this order of work.
1. Set the plug gap to .034
2. Set the points basic setting to .025 after its running set the Dwell Angel to factory spec of 37 degrees.
3. Now you need to set the timing to the 6 degrees (with stick Trans) or 12 degrees (Auto Trans) base timing vacuum line disconnected and plugged. You can also try more base timing to as much as 16 degrees but if there is any hint of pinging when you try it driving it up a slight grade then back it off until it stops. Reinstall the vaccum line to the Distribitor after setting the base timing.
4. With engine warmed up good, choke blade is fully open too. Set the Idle mixture to its Lean Best Idle. ie set to highest idle RPM then turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn to lean it. See Addistional Notes below.
5. Set the curb idle speed to 550 to 600 RPM if standard Trans. Set idle RPM's to 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto trans in drive parking brake set, wheels chocked with block of wood, or you can have someone set in it and hold the brakes.
6. Repeat 4. & 5. To see if it improves anymore. When properly tuned these engines (warmed up) will restart without even touching the gas pedal.

Addistional Notes
You might also test your coils output with the volt / ohm meter to see that it's within spec. Or you can do it by watching the spark color (a Bright Blue) and the lenght it can jump to cap terminal (from 1/2 inch or more).

While doing the tune up settings to the carb mixture and curb idle setting the engine needs everything installed and hooked up just as it will be operated! This includes having the Air Cleaner with a clean air filter installed and the PCV hooked up if your engine has one. If you want to use a Vacuum gauge then hook that up to the Intake Log below the Carb you would be looking for about a steady 17 inches of vacuum at idle RPM. Good luck in your tuning :thumbup: :nod: Edited



So, I'm not sure if you read the post or not but just to make sure I didn't forget or was mistaken I went out, with a timing light, and reset the timing at 12-13* base timing. Adjusted the idle mixture screw a tad and the car runs like complete junk. Will barely go down the road. Now if I adjust the timing to near 30* base timing the car runs at its best in current form. Everything you mentioned minus the dwell meter and vacuum gauge has been done. When I replaced the plugs I gapped them. When I replaced the points I gapped them. When I pulled the distributor to check for shaft wobble, and found none, I checked point gap full rotation at every lobe on the point cam. The spark is great as she fires right up and I've pulled every plug wire, while running, searching for a bad wire. At that time I observed the amount of spark and it was a lot to say the least. My original question comes from the fact that I cannot even advance the timing enough to create a pinging. I'm not a mechanic by trade but I've been working on vehicles for about 22 years now but I'm not an expert. I do understand however that the timing should not be as far out as it is without the damper having slipped. Odd thing is the TDC marks line up as they should. I still go back to my original question. I've also read and read on all the LOM distributor info I can find on this site and across the web. I've also read about all the tuneup info you posted long before I decided to ask my original question. None of that has worked. If everything is correct 30* of base timing shouldn't even go down the road so that is where I come back to my original question. Is it possible that the cam gear be off one tooth? Or even though TDC marks line up that the balancer has slipped? If the balancer has slipped it still doesn't solve the bad hesitation no matter the timing adjustment.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #21 by Creechn32 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:07 pm

Here are some pictures of the ignition components and the carburetor.... Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8584
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #22 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:54 pm

Yes I have read all your posts and I have addressed your question on the timing being one tooth off and how to check for a worn timing chain and gear set in the #17 post above. Yes I had also seen that you did many of the things listed in post # 18 yet not everthing was stated or even yet such as a compression test, hence the step by step method I use that rules out each item that can be a cause of trouble. Sorry if I have offended you but with any newer member there is little chance of knowing at first where they are starting from as far as experance level until you tell us. Then also there are many other people that search these posts for answers to their questions too so some of my and others answers will be for them.

Anyway there is a problem if your engine has good compression that's close to equal in all the cylinders, plus then we all know now that your engine shouldn't need to have 30 degrees of base timing to run right. Check out your timing chain set this is the likely cause of this. Ie just because the timing marks on the Dampner line correctly with the timing cover timing marks with the piston being at TDC this is only going to show that the crankshaft dampner hasn't slipped. The distribitors body position can be easily turned so that it will fire the #1 cylinder yet the Distribitor rotor is being turned by the camshaft which is turned by the crankshaft via the timing chain and gear set. So if the timing chain set is very worn out its going to be way off in relation to the crankshaft position. Good luck :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #23 by Creechn32 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:58 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Yes I have read all your posts and I have addressed your question on the timing being one tooth off and how to check for a worn timing chain and gear set in the #17 post above. Yes I had also seen that you did many of the things listed in post # 18 yet not everthing was stated or even yet such as a compression test, hence the step by step method I use that rules out each item that can be a cause of trouble. Sorry if I have offended you but with any newer member there is little chance of knowing at first where they are starting from as far as experance level until you tell us. Then also there are many other people that search these posts for answers to their questions too.

Anyway there is a problem as we all now know that your engine shouldn't need to have 30 degrees of base timing to run right. Check out your timing chain set this is the likely cause of this. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Thank'you, I will continue to search for the issue and keep y'all informed. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me...

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4220
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #24 by chad » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:34 pm

even tho it only has "1 thru 6" bubs has laid out well over 75 steps. Just to go thru them w/o a skip (I do this cuz "I know" & guess what - that 1 I skipped, I didn't know & assumed) will take a full morning.
I often find problems where "I knew everything is OK". Luckily I have another task to get onto or I'd blow my top (not a good thing). I come back later possibly w/the solution frm freein my mind / focusing on something else. /OR/ realize I did not do a simple step lower in the sequence / mislaid a sm component, spoke w/a more knowledgable friend... The guy who's shop I'm at is way better'n me. He keeps at it (more'n me) and has more experience. Sometimes 'not keepin at it" can have advantages too (a break thru).

Example - not that it applies here but - I think I mentioned "condensers & points should B replaced simultaneously" each time. Little things can have little effects (& sometimes bigger). Any way, hope U take a break, sounds like ur attitude already has improved. That's a good thing.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Creechn32
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #25 by Creechn32 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:08 am

My apologies is I came across with an attitude. I do appreciate the knowledge y'all have shared with me.

As I do not own a dwell meter or vacuum test gauge I was curious if y'all would have a suggestion to quality tools to invest in or particular ones to stay away from?

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8584
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #26 by bubba22349 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:47 pm

Creechn32 wrote:My apologies is I came across with an attitude. I do appreciate the knowledge y'all have shared with me.

As I do not own a dwell meter or vacuum test gauge I was curious if y'all would have a suggestion to quality tools to invest in or particular ones to stay away from?


OK It's all good, we all need to start somewhere and our site members are great people and glad to help you figure it out. On Tach / Dwell units there are a lot of good one and fthen you can pick the higher end units used at very reasonable prices. Some of these older models are Snap On, Mac, NAPA Balkamp, Katel, & Craftsmen, there are probably a lot more that am not thinking of right now. I personally like those that have a larger size meter that makes it easy to see from a distance. Did you get your timing chain set check out yet? Vacuum Gauges are simple and you will find quality ones at most auto parts houses like NAPA again Snap On is a top brand but even less the expensive one will work good. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8584
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 1963 170 hesitation issues

Post #27 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:17 pm

Creechn32, have you made any progress on your 170? :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests