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Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

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62Ranchero200
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Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #1 by 62Ranchero200 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:25 pm

Greetings Ford Six Fans,

Somewhere on the forum I have previously seen a photo of a small six with a custom, three 2-V manifold - Holley (I think) or Autolite carbs, vertically oriented (completely separate from the Lynx/Australian/Weber trip manifolds).


Would appreciate any help to find this photo.


Thank you,
Bob
62 Ranchero, 252 cid, 300 rods, RaceTek pstns, ARP mains bolts & studs, balanced & blueprinted, CI AL head, 1.6 adj rckrs, Smith Bros, 274/274/108 cam, CI int, Holley 500, DSII, CI SS hdrs, PowerMaster strtr and 1wire alt, Optima, V8 rad, T-5z, 10" organic clutch, 5 lug 8" w/3.80 Trac Loc, rear drums, front 5 lug discs, Centerlines. Next: ?.

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chad
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Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #2 by chad » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:28 pm

quick links above (has tech archive in it, also immage gallery - paeg 5 has one), VI home page scroll thru that by use of "arrow", the search function here...
Denarootie (Xctasy) & powerband (members here) have extensive personal gif library (or pic, images, whatever they're called).
:nod:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #3 by drag-200stang » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:04 am

If it is the one I am thinking about, I think that it was photo chopped...No reason that it could not be done....Maybe a bit to much on stockish engine with an auto.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #4 by StarDiero75 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:07 am

Something similar to what you're looking for?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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pic: i6 w/three 2V Direct mount

Post #5 by chad » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:40 am

looks like the "M" head...
U don't have 1 w/o the adapters do U Ryan?

Any 1 know what carbs would fit w/o interference?...starting to look pretty crowded ?!?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #6 by powerband » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:59 am

Any 1 know what carbs would fit w/o interference?...starting to look pretty crowded ?!?

.. that's the question, mockups I've done have linkage and parts interference issues not to mention synchronizing. Adding a plenum can add some real estate for carb choices . Removable plenum could offer differering carb configuration swapping.

'still like the idea of three small 2bbl progressives ...


haev fun

3 X 2+2

Image . Image . Image

simpler Tri-Port big 2bbl adapter:
Image . Image
"Take time to stop and smell... The roadkill..."

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pic: i6 with 3, 2v Direct Mount

Post #7 by chad » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:12 am

I didn't know ur 'square log' had 2v's. Seen it alot.
Thank U for placing it on our site again!

What carbs did U use again? 2 on the ends different frm the 1 in middle?
Is it still in use? 170 motor?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: pic: i6 w/three 2V Direct mount

Post #8 by StarDiero75 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:51 pm

chad wrote:looks like the "M" head...
U don't have 1 w/o the adapters do U Ryan?

Any 1 know what carbs would fit w/o interference?...starting to look pretty crowded ?!?

No i wish i did. I found this trying to get pictures without the adapter for just 1 2v setup. But this has me thinking if i should try it since I'm gonna have mine setup for 1 2v. Maybe just have covers over the outer 2 in case i want to try 3 carbs, then i have that option
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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pic: direct mount trips (2v)

Post #9 by chad » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:30 pm

there R 2 different Offie's for these motors (triples) 1 older/sm log, one newer/bigger log. Using those U can have some nice linkage (the hard prt to me) & try 2 block off plates - IF wanting to make ur 3 mill passes for trips. Set up the 1 carb, come back later w/o having to remove head/remachine - when trying the 3. Not certain Y any1 would wanna do as U suggest tho. If U mill 3 'holes' ur gunna use them all, no?
I'd say set up a head for the direct mount 2v. Get nother head set w/the trips. Swap.
For me? -
Or better yet the Tqer for 1 and another for mpg - but this is a multi purpose vehicle & it would B to specialize in 1 or the other at different times (off v on road).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #10 by bubba22349 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:50 pm

62Ranchero200 wrote:Greetings Ford Six Fans,

Somewhere on the forum I have previously seen a photo of a small six with a custom, three 2-V manifold - Holley (I think) or Autolite carbs, vertically oriented (completely separate from the Lynx/Australian/Weber trip manifolds).


Would appreciate any help to find this photo.


Thank you,
Bob


:hmmm: I really think the picture Bob is looking for doesn't have anything to do with mounting 3 X 2V carb's on the standard log heads. It's an intake that's made to fit on the 2V Australian heads or the C.I. / V.I. Aluminun heads. I also remember seeing this triple 2V Holley carb pattern intake he is asking about. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #11 by xctasy » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:13 pm

Dennis B (Dbzokale) has a 221 Ford Falcon SP head on a US 200 engine with triple IDA 44 Webers. Maybee that was it.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #12 by chad » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:08 pm

likea dis?
They come as 3v...U not gunna fit 3 of these on...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #13 by bubba22349 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:57 pm

62Ranchero200 wrote:Greetings Ford Six Fans,

Somewhere on the forum I have previously seen a photo of a small six with a custom, three 2-V manifold - Holley (I think) or Autolite carbs, vertically oriented (completely separate from the Lynx/Australian/Weber trip manifolds).


Would appreciate any help to find this photo.


Thank you,
Bob


:bang: Well from his post I don't think that DOCE, IDR, or any Austrailian triple Webers intakes are the direction he's wanting to go (not). Ok now if you actually read the OP's very first post (see above) you can see he's talking about a picture of a triple 2V intake with Holleys (2300) or Autolites that's going to fit the C.I. / V.I. Aluminum or a 2V head. Also hes was not interested in a Lynx or Weber triple intake. Plus if you happened to have ever looked at his engine build up in the past for his Ranchero he has the C.I. Aluminum head. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #14 by chad » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:18 pm

is that the 2nd time ? some1 said "Refer him to:"

https://fordsix.com/viewforum.php?f=3

"Yeah, I think so."
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:29 pm

:hmmm: Ok then, I'll just give up and say "Uncle"!

“What we have here is a failure to communicate”, just like in the old movie “Cool-Hand Luke” :rolflmao:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #16 by chad » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:48 pm

sorry Bubs, I must B ignorant, thought we were doin ok (yeah not great tho).

One problem is I don't re-read the thread every time, am into several threads at once. I come home frm wrk or got some time B4'n rush thru em. Also the way a Q is written has alot to do w/any quality answ we might give. All sorta past experience (& lack) in the 'mechanic OP'... It's a wonder this all wrks out at all !!!

Den ya gotta guy w/arthritis & learnin disabiity like me throws a monkey wrench in there...
:nono:

Could patience'n care B what holds it together?

Oh'n ford6 interest - DATs Da REAL glue, no?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:34 pm

It's all good Chad, I was just trying to steer the posts back on track to what I think Bob was asking about both in this post and an earlier one before. Seems like I also had seen that picture showing three Holley 2300's he was looking for yet can't remember where or when it was, in searching for it didn't find it though. Good luck :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #18 by xctasy » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:16 pm

Both Charlie Price's Vintage Speed has a triple 2v adaptor suitable for the VintageInlines and Classic In lines 4bbl.


https://oi1215.photobucket.com/albums/c ... eed_v1.jpg
https://oi1215.photobucket.com/albums/c ... eed_v2.jpg
https://oi1215.photobucket.com/albums/c ... eed_v3.jpg

Image


See https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... d.1103265/

Image


Image

See http://vintagespeed.com/index.php/contact-us


AussieSpeed makes two kinds of adaptor to fit the 2V 250/Classic Inlines style intake

Image

Supplied with the bottom section AS0032 and the removable top AS0139

Image

Ford 250 2V supercharger intake manifold AS0032


See http://www.aussiespeedshop.com/product/ ... -manifold/

The manifold is supplied machined and does not include a backfire valve as it isnt required when running a ribbed belt, the cylinder head face is machined and drilled to bolt straight on to Falcon, Cortina and Mustang inline powered cars fitted with the 2V 250 cylinder head. The manifold is made and machined in Australia and can be shipped world wide.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #19 by xctasy » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:48 pm

To Bob the Builder!


Okay, 2bbl Strombergs are the Bendix Technico carb that is similar to the Ball and Ball Dual choke Carter BBD.

Image

The 250 and 302W and early 302C used these with an Autolite 2100 adaptor pattern.

I've seen an old 2V250 with three WW Strombergs. but the photo's...no.


Other things it might have been is a triple Zenith Stromberg CD175 equiped engine, but they are 1v carbs. gb500 has lots of really neat photos. Check his posts.

From his stuff:-


Log heads CNC or machined other ways.

Added spun alloy log with any variety of flanges.


Image


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67003&p=531208#p531208
gb500 wrote:argentine heads - circular ports:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image




See http://fanafalcon.com.ar/foro/index.php?topic=48401.0

Image


Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #20 by xctasy » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:14 pm

More care of fakundo__92

Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #21 by chad » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:09 pm

reminds me of powerband's square log (quite a different engine, tho).

Yeah, fukundo had some interesting Q (I forget what they were right now) but was surprised to know he was in USA at
some point. Wonder if he cont contact here (Oz/S. of the Border forum ?) when returning home? Don't remember his pic...
Thnx, U no how "I Luv pic!"
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #22 by xctasy » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:22 am

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76330

See post#11, Bob.

Two 3bbl carbs, effectively
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #23 by xctasy » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:50 am

The worlds most simple 6bbl intake



Image


Image

http://s148.photobucket.com/user/WDoug7 ... 6.jpg.html


.......Fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by xctasy on Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #24 by chad » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:35 am

4 some reason I see just "the blue box w/? inside it".
No pic in last post Dean...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #25 by xctasy » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:34 am

I am a member if the Royal Order if Boxheads....

Maybee this link will redeem me!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78236
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #26 by xctasy » Sat May 04, 2019 10:19 pm

4.0 or 258 AMC Jeep intake by Offenhasuer

Image



viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31668&p=273682&hilit=neutral+drop#p273682


258 AMC Triple 2300 350/500 CFM Holley 2BBLS

xctasy wrote:
Stubby wrote:You lost me a couple of times. You said IR then you said run on the center carb until sorted then add the others.

I'm looking at isolated runner at very low revs. The better Triple Weber D-type Jags and DB5 Astons and even Charger R/T E38's have a magically refined low speed amble when in high gear, despite big cams over 280 degrees. So some kind of spin off from the Offy style progressive linkage, with an ability to run all carbs below 1200 rpm, but just the centre from 1200 to 2500 rpm, and then back on all three from 2500 to 4500 rpm should work really well.


So, you are trying to build a progressive/IR intake?

If the Webers are capable of running in IR configuration, then they will be easier to tune with a plenum?

I have also considered an IR setup and the Holleys are priced right. If the blower and turbo guys can reference the power valve to boost, couldn't we keep the power enrichment and activate it some other way than manifold vac?



Image

Image

Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #27 by xctasy » Sun May 05, 2019 3:57 pm

You can do this all from one supplier.

Lynx.

Lynx Auto.com.au wrote:Factory 15, 35-37 Canterbury Road. Braeside, Victoria 3195. Australia

Tel:

Australian Area Code 61

(03) 9587 32 77




You take your Ford 250 2V 6 Cyl - 3 x Weber DCOE manifold, the Lynx M190 intake, https://www.lynxauto.com.au/ford-6-cyl- ... ifold.html.


Image



To hook the Holley 2300 or Autolite2100 /Motorcraft 2150 to the m190 intake, you use either three of the BurtonPower adaptors


https://www.burtonpower.com/inlet-manif ... fv450.html

Inlet manifold adaptor - DGV/DGAS to single DCOE. Ford Essex V6, SOHC Pinto, Kent X/flow OHV FV450

Image


See https://www.burtonpower.com/media/catal ... /FV450.jpg

, or three of the WeberPerformance Lynx KC190 90 degree adaptors

https://www.weberperformance.com.au/pro ... ts_id=1115

Image


Image



Image

You then have to add the normal Holley Weber 5200 to Holley 2300/Autolite 2100/ Motorcraft 2150 adaptor to each to mount your 500 cfm Holley 4412 carbs.

Racer Walsh makes them and has done since the 1970's for the SOHC 1969 -1974-Pinto/Capri 2000 and 1974-2005 Lima 2300/2500 engines.


Image

Redline makes another

Image

With a linakge and a proper level of jetting with reduced PVCR'S or removed power valves, Job done.
Last edited by xctasy on Wed May 08, 2019 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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lynx

Post #28 by chad » Sun May 05, 2019 9:11 pm

some here used a goodun frm them like the M-190 but thinner (&
possibly for our head, not the Oz 2v. )
They stopped production of it, aussie speed is out of them I believe
but I sent out a post to another 2ndary mrkter incase something can
B found for this other model. It's not 3 X 2 but 6 : 6 (or may B 3 DOCEs?
which is a side draft instead).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #29 by bubba22349 » Sun May 05, 2019 9:59 pm

Bob swapped out the 200 in his 62 Ranchero long ago when he built a 250 with 300 rods plus custom Pistons and the C. I. Aluminun head runing a Holley carb see link for the build details. viewtopic.php?t=70677

What I gleaned from reading some his posts in the past is that he was interested in running 3 Holley 2V carb's. My best guess is that this photo of Xctasy's" of the IR 258 AMC intake might be what he had in mind or maybe also the same but with a plentium. Good luck. :thumbup: :nod:

Image
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #30 by xctasy » Mon May 06, 2019 2:13 am

What was shown before was the motorbike carb install Do you think that was closer to Bobs idea?

Image

Image


Image


Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #31 by bubba22349 » Mon May 06, 2019 5:16 pm

My understanding is he didn't seem interested in Weber DCOE or any other side Draught type carb's. I think he wants to go vertical using the 2V Holley's (350 / 500 CFM) so he can reuse his existing carb and then add two more. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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2 trips/ webber

Post #32 by chad » Mon May 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Sat is 1 mo No Show 4 him (OP) let's keep goin, dis is fun.

How would U use some of these multiple lill Lynx adaptors in these last posts to fit the trips in post # 30? Possible?

They would B only 2 banks, a well known automotive carb (rather than the Keihins I keep pushin
( I'm thinkin designed & may B pre-made for easier throttle/pedal linkage ).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #33 by 62Ranchero200 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:46 pm

I apologize for my long absence - as we often say here, life gets in the way: since my original post, my car club hosted a regional meet, my wife and I went camping on the beach, and we ran a half marathon. I have been following this thread, but not commenting.

In my original post I did mention that the setup I am interested in would use vertically oriented, Holley or Autolite carbs. The side draft Webers are sexy, but I think I might have to cut the shock tower for clearance to run those (and possibly install a Mustang II suspension), and I’m not ready to consider that yet, although I do have the Lynx side draft intake manifold. Also, I have some experience tuning Holley 2-Vs but not Webers.

I should have been more specific in my post. While an Offy-type setup with a modified log and three 2-Vs would be great for fuel distribution, I want to take advantage of the larger ports and valves and higher flow that my AL head offers. Chad, the photo on page 5 of the image gallery is of three 1-Vs on a log intake, if I am not mistaken:

Image

The closest I've seen in this thread to what I had in mind is the photo below:

Image

However, I am convinced that an intake with a plenum would be much safer: with an IR (independent runner) type manifold, if one of the 2-V carbs developed a fuel delivery problem, such as a clogged fuel filter or a stuck needle valve, the two cylinders fed by that 2-V carb could run very lean, possibly with severe engine damage. A plenum would lessen the impact of such an event. Please correct me if I am thinking wrong.

Another photo in this thread is the photo below, which is apparently of a custom intake fabricated for an Argentine head:

Image

I realize this specific custom intake would not work for a CI AL head; but something similar could be made for that head. If there really isn't enough space for three 2-Vs (theoretically best), maybe there would be enough space for two 2-Vs. With equal-length runners from the plenum to the head, this would still give better fuel distribution than the CI intake.

To summarize, I am interested in a plenum intake for three vertically oriented, Holley or Autolite (but most probably Holley, since they are available new: I could order three identical new Holley 2-V carbs whenever I am ready) 2-V carbs that fits the AL head. As far as crowding issues, would setting up the carbs with manual chokes, or no chokes at all relieve some of the crowding?

Thanks,
Bob
62 Ranchero, 252 cid, 300 rods, RaceTek pstns, ARP mains bolts & studs, balanced & blueprinted, CI AL head, 1.6 adj rckrs, Smith Bros, 274/274/108 cam, CI int, Holley 500, DSII, CI SS hdrs, PowerMaster strtr and 1wire alt, Optima, V8 rad, T-5z, 10" organic clutch, 5 lug 8" w/3.80 Trac Loc, rear drums, front 5 lug discs, Centerlines. Next: ?.

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #34 by chad » Tue May 07, 2019 9:57 pm

there's Bob !
So - it is: 1) "...my AL head..."; 2)"...IR..."; 3) "...interested in a "plenum intake" for three vertically oriented...new Holley 2-V carbs..."

"...As far as crowding issues, would setting up the carbs with manual chokes, or no chokes at all relieve some of the crowding?..."

Just on the last - can U run the ele choke on the single middle carb as when using the Offie?

On the 1st 2 - I see the CI intake as an IR style. Not sure how 2 get both plenum & IR.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #35 by xctasy » Wed May 08, 2019 8:21 am

Welcome back Bob the Builder!

Ultra marathon training for me. Welcome to the madness of the Half Marathon, mate!


Great idle quality happens when you can run more than one throttle per two cylinders. The four corner idle on the vac secondary 4bbl 1983 to 1985 5.0 HO GT Mustangs....ie 4 feeds to 8 cylinders.

You can run a rectangular hole section plenumb as a transition to your M190 intake. Then mount your three 2v 4412 carbs on it.

Essentially, I felt in 2006 that Mike W should use an M190 intake on every Classic Inlines Head, and then add an RHS adaptor for whatever down draft carb option the customer wanted. One 4bbl. Two 2bbls, two 3bbls, or (G"d forbid) three 2bbls. Or 3 1bbls.

Page 5 triple 1bbl is the Faron Rhodes 250 cube 14 second Mustang that he ran at Beaver Springs in Pa. Gene has it now in his 64 Falcon.

Instead of three RacerWalsh 5200 to 2300 2bbl adaptors, on top of three Lynx KC190 90 degree down draft DGES/DGAS/DGAV to DCOE adaptors and then onto your M190 Lynx, you'd just have one big PowerBand style Rectangular Hole Section with three Holley 500 cfm mounts, and six holes to your Triple DCOE 45 M190 intake.

Good idea. Follow the the strength of your convictions.
:beer: :thumbup: :mrgreen: :cool: :D :twisted:
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FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #36 by chad » Wed May 08, 2019 10:15 am

"...an RHS adaptor..."
gota pic?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #37 by xctasy » Wed May 08, 2019 10:54 am

Post #6 above, powerband.

RHS plenumb.....
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #38 by xctasy » Fri May 10, 2019 4:36 pm

Internally, I think your better off copying the flow path of the Argentine SP221 triple IDF 44 system

Image

The preoccupation with risk aversity isnt needed with a triple Holley 2bbl 500 cfm carb system-unlike all Webers, each Holley is designed to feed 400 cubic in
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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One photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifolds-nonUSA

Post #39 by chad » Fri May 10, 2019 5:50 pm

oh my, like 2 have that sclupture in my livin rm.
Wonder it those 'pipes' scorch the fender paint?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #40 by 62Ranchero200 » Fri May 10, 2019 5:57 pm

xctasy wrote:Internally, I think your better off copying the flow path of the Argentine SP221 triple IDF 44 system

Image

The preoccupation with risk aversity isnt needed with a triple Holley 2bbl 500 cfm carb system-unlike all Webers, each Holley is designed to feed 400 cubic in


Hi X,

If I used triple Holley 2-Vs, I would use the smaller “350 CFM” Hollley 2-Vs. As you are no doubt familiar with, Holley 2-V carb flow ratings are different and a 2-V “500 CFM” actually only flows 385 CFM, a “350 CFM” only 270 CFM.

Thank you,
Bob
62 Ranchero, 252 cid, 300 rods, RaceTek pstns, ARP mains bolts & studs, balanced & blueprinted, CI AL head, 1.6 adj rckrs, Smith Bros, 274/274/108 cam, CI int, Holley 500, DSII, CI SS hdrs, PowerMaster strtr and 1wire alt, Optima, V8 rad, T-5z, 10" organic clutch, 5 lug 8" w/3.80 Trac Loc, rear drums, front 5 lug discs, Centerlines. Next: ?.

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #41 by xctasy » Fri May 10, 2019 6:26 pm

Its still a realitivley free country, so use whatever. Enjoy whatcha do, and you cant make a bad call.

Except for downgrading to three 7448 Holleys with tiny 1.1875 venturis which will drag your peak power down, and remove mid range torque.

Peak rev range with 30.6 mm venturis on a 250 engine is 3600 rpm, and a open plenumb won't make a jot of difference.

CFM has nothing to do with improving any performance; duty cycle and venturi size govern this aspect.

The only way you can go down a carb venturi size without suffering a disapointing mid range and upper range flatness is by a higher compression ratio and a Restrictor Plate cam profile, the late Currie Industries 65 Mustang is an example; even though it had a low compression ratio, it ran on 87 octane.


With the right intake manifold, cam, and heads, you can get 350 hp from even a 289 with a box stock 4412 blueprinted 500 cfm Holley 1.375" venturi carb.

Even a 2-bbl (or especially a 2-bbl!) really likes single plane 4-bbl intake a lot better than anything Ford ever made for 1968 to 1985 2 or 4-bbls. If your very carefull, this might fit under the hood.

See http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/hrd ... g-fastback


http://image.hotrod.com/f/9267509+w660+ ... 8-hero.jpg
and this


http://image.hotrod.com/f/9267560+q80+r ... _large.jpg

Photo 8 of 15 | The Keith Dorton-modified 500-cfm Holley carb is the largest allowed in Currie’s Carrera Panamericana class, and it mates to an Edelbrock Victor Jr. single-plane intake with an adapter that’s hogged to match the carb’s bore size. Maximum power on the dyno was made with box-stock calibrations. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ford-289-engine-buildup/#ixzz3ig86Xoy3 @HotRodMagazine on Twitter | HotRodMag on Facebook

The hot 289 two-barrel shown here made an impressive 352 hp at 6,700 rpm and 316 lb-ft at 5,000 rpm—on 87-octane gas—using a sensible combination of parts and preparation.




There is a very specfic combo listed here that will get you close, but it'll be like a 86 with the wildest 303 cam, and you'd probably out perform it. Due to the cam and carburation, your rev range would require some gearing more like Franks 66 Shelby replica. Its a real car, with real performance, and some real science went into getting it to do 140 mph and sub 15 second 1/4 miles. None of that data is hidden. If you run it through a simulation program, you get the same power peaks with less rpm. It is a real 7000 rpm engne with 292 cubic inches. A 306 would drg the peak power rpm down a little with the cam specs.

Basically, peak power is its related not to peak carb air flow because (as NASCAR proved), even with Winston Cup steel restrictor plate, and a little 390 cfm 4-bbl, you can make 850 hp if you compress, cam, exhaust and use the right heads the right way to underscavege a 351 Windsor or pre EFI F452 block. In a similar way, the so called production Carrera Pamaerica has been dominated by 2-bbl stock gasoline engines that absolutely can make insane power very, very cheaply. Frank Curries car in the link above is proof what can be doen on below 9.25:1 compression and 87 octane gas.


The problem with the 2150 is that they were only 1.08 or 1.21 carbs, 287 or 351-356 cfm rated Fords way. With the advent of the 1965 Clean Air Act, Ford decided the last big two barrel was the 1964 to 1966 390 2100 series "C4MF-A"prefixed Autolite 2-bbl with a 1.33 venturi, and 424 cfm.

The SAE Net Hp in the 2-bbl 400 was about 172 to 180, then down to 159 to 163hp in the restricted exhaust truck era. Rated Gross was 260. I'm picking that with the 5.0 GT 1.21 carb, you'd get to 250 hp net fairly easily. The German DIN factory net hp was about 240 in the 64 to 66 2-bbl 390, or 280 hp Gross.

The work Currie Industries did on there Mustang

http://image.hotrod.com/f/9989744+w660+ ... _right.jpg


includes a cam specification, a intkae and exhaust target air flow, an intake manifold, and it would work fine with a 2150 carb fly cut or abrasive reamed to a 1.375" venturi. Normally, any Motorcraft carb has well over 160 thou of wall thickness in the casting. With 80 thou removed around the annular portion of the venturi, you'd get to a 1.375" venturi size fairly easily, enough for over 430 cfm. If it broke through, you can expoxy it back with JB weld, and resand with emery or wet and dry. Its been done before with 5200 Holley Webers, take them out another 160 thu easily for 336 cfm, up from 227 cfm.

a stock 5200 Holley Weber, which is 23 and 27, can be routed out to 29 and 31 mm venturis and still work, as well as flow 336 cfm at 3" Hg like this one by Mercury Marc (an Aussie told him how to do it!)

Image


Without a very specfic cam duration, exhaust and intake flow development program, you stuck with these sizes for performance

For any thing port on port, irresepctive of grouped plenumbe, assuming a 5 inch from butterfly to valve head.

Up to 1.181" or 30mm,180 hp six
up to 1.260" or 32mm, 198 hp six
up to 1.378" or 35mm, 234 hp six
up to 1.496" or 38mm, 276 hp six
up to 1.575" or 40mm, 306 hp six
up to 1.653" or 42mm, 336 hp six
Up to 1.771" or 45mm, 390hp six
up to 1.889" or 48mm, 444 hp six
up to 1.968" or 50mm, 480 hp six
up to 2.047" or 52mm, 522 hp six
up to 2.126" or 54mm, 558 hp six.

As stated, ye canne change the laws of physics" unless you play around with the exhaust flow rates, compression, and find a signifcantly better way to deliver fuel to six cylinders. They've done that at NASCAR, ACTC, and LeMans where restrictor plates are common, but they have engineers with degrees to help them. As you can see above, I'm not against CFM figures, but CFM isn't the issue, its the size of the restriction in cubic inch of engine per square inches of venturi, a critical flow dimension which has defined drag factors under Bernoulis eqautions. CFM at a carb is pressure based, with a targed air speed of about 265 feet per second for Holley carbs, 4-bbl or 2-bbl. Its really got nothing to do with anything but having a fair, common base to rate things by.

Air doesn't care about CFM. Flow net analysis defines horsepower because engineers who are good at it (and Ford Motor Company has the best engineers around bar none), they rate engines on not just dynos, but in actual real world conditions.

I think the GT40 427 Dual Quad system was the best ever non Independent runner system around. It kicks a$$. But try fitting that kind to a six in line, and it won't work.


If you want to go to 30.6 mm venturis, factor in $400 for David Vizard at APT Fast to design a new camshaft and exhaust to suit your intake system.

Then get them to grind a cam blank to suit.

Don't try an cheat physics...its too expensive.

https://www.aptfast.com/ContactUs.aspx
92507 (Riverside Weather Forecast, CA)
Advanced Performance Technology
595 Iowa Avenue, Suite C
Riverside CA 92507

Phone: (951)686-0260
Toll Free: (800)278-3278
Fax: (951)686-2831
danton@aptfast.com
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #42 by bubba22349 » Fri May 10, 2019 10:14 pm

xctasy wrote:You can do this all from one supplier.

Lynx.

Lynx Auto.com.au wrote:Factory 15, 35-37 Canterbury Road. Braeside, Victoria 3195. Australia

Tel:

Australian Area Code 61

(03) 9587 32 77




You take your Ford 250 2V 6 Cyl - 3 x Weber DCOE manifold, the Lynx M190 intake, https://www.lynxauto.com.au/ford-6-cyl- ... ifold.html.


Image



To hook the Holley 2300 or Autolite2100 /Motorcraft 2150 to the m190 intake, you use either three of the BurtonPower adaptors


https://www.burtonpower.com/inlet-manif ... fv450.html

Inlet manifold adaptor - DGV/DGAS to single DCOE. Ford Essex V6, SOHC Pinto, Kent X/flow OHV FV450

Image


See https://www.burtonpower.com/media/catal ... /FV450.jpg

, or three of the WeberPerformance Lynx KC190 90 degree adaptors

https://www.weberperformance.com.au/pro ... ts_id=1115

Image


Image



Image

You then have to add the normal Holley Weber 5200 to Holley 2300/Autolite 2100/ Motorcraft 2150 adaptor to each to mount your 500 cfm Holley 4412 carbs.

Racer Walsh makes them and has done since the 1970's for the SOHC 1969 -1974-Pinto/Capri 2000 and 1974-2005 Lima 2300/2500 engines.


Image

Redline makes another

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With a linakge and a proper level of jetting with reduced PVCR'S or removed power valves, Job done.


Well looks like we are starting to nail this down some now! So if Bob happens to already have that Lynx M190 intake like in Xctasy's above picture and then could get ahold of those 90 degree adapters also pictured above or maybe even make them. Then you could calculate out the size plentium (about 80% of engine capacity) and then build it out of some sheat aluminum to mount on top of the 90 degree adapters, you would have a short style tunnel ram intake to mount the 3 Holleys or Autolites on top of or many other carb's for that mater. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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64 200 ranchero
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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #43 by 64 200 ranchero » Fri May 10, 2019 11:18 pm

powerband wrote: Any 1 know what carbs would fit w/o interference?...starting to look pretty crowded ?!?

.. that's the question, mockups I've done have linkage and parts interference issues not to mention synchronizing. Adding a plenum can add some real estate for carb choices . Removable plenum could offer differering carb configuration swapping.

'still like the idea of three small 2bbl progressives ...


haev fun

3 X 2+2

Image . Image . Image

simpler Tri-Port big 2bbl adapter:
Image . Image


Not progressive, but it works on my daily driver.
img/_data/i/upload/2019/03/12/20190312231332-2ad19529-sm.jpg
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.40 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Flowmaster, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #44 by lavron » Sat May 11, 2019 9:18 am

This what I am working on right now, remember this is early and I will probably change it some as I progress. I am hoping to be able to sand cast this by either finding someone with a forge or building one myself (yes I have cast metal before and built patterns, just was a long time ago).

What I am doing right now is building the pattern and laying it out, I am using 1990 Ford Escort carbs a progressive 2bbl (build by Webber/Holley), my intention to direct link all the carbs.

Image

My pattern should basically look like the finished product except in wood :roll: I will post more when I get some more done, I am working on this right now because I decided the aluminum head is not in my budget currently and I was not sure of the availability.

The head is a '72 M head (I am going to put late model valves in it and hardened seats), and I have removed the auto choke on the center carb, will probably remove all the auto chokes and build a manual choke(s). Also my engine is a 250 I think a 200 could run just 2 of the carbs possibly (Escort is a 1.9L IIRC).

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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3X2v

Post #45 by chad » Sat May 11, 2019 9:29 am

"...'90 escort carb..."
The Ford variable venturi carburettor or the replacement Weber carburetor 28/30 TLDM ?
Sounds like 1 of the last evolved carbs...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #46 by lavron » Sat May 11, 2019 9:43 am

chad wrote:The Ford variable venturi carburettor or the replacement Weber carburetor 28/30 TLDM ?


They are Motorcraft 740 or 5740 used on the Escort/Lynx 1981-1990

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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three 2-V manifold

Post #47 by chad » Sat May 11, 2019 9:49 am

interesting:

http://p15-d24.com/topic/42342-carterweber-jetting/

yes, 1.6L, 1.9

Engine in
'81/'90 Escort
'81/7 Lynx

1.6 L CVH I4
1.9 L CVH I4
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #48 by xctasy » Sat May 11, 2019 7:53 pm



Nice. :thumbup: :wow: :beer: :cool: :hmmm:

Any carb sizes will work, but you
might
(Dean knowing might shall become Will ) need significant Restrictor plate style cam, exhaust and ignition spikes to get it running crisp.

But love is what I have for your setup lavron, and 62Ranchero200 and 64 200 ranchero and people who aggree/dissagree.

For everyone who says independent runner style port on carbs work, there's another who says they don't. badasscars.com is full of sarcastic bull pucky. I know. Now I'm sarcastic too.


2 barrel carbs are bigger than 4 barrel carbs
http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/pag ... prd440.htm
badasscars.com wrote:Now, I know I'm going to get the emails from guys saying that if they ran a 250 or 275 cfm 2 barrel on their car, it would Peter-out at only about 2,500 - 3,000 RPM. Well thank you Dr. Obvious's. We're not talking about running at full or max RPM here. We're talking about running around town in your average RPM range, which is usually below 3,000 RPM, so IF you are comparing apples tp apples, for normal driving, which includes gas mileage and off the line get-up and go, it is a fact that even something like a 350 cfm 2 barrel will be more sluggish and will get less mileage than a 500 or 600 cfm 4 barrel, which supports my argument that a small 4 barrel is pretty much always better for throttle response, gas mileage and off the line get-up and go power than what most would consider to be a "small" 2 barrel.



And http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/pag ... prd400.htm

The actual reality is the adge old Eduardo Weber IR knowledge

http://www.timsroadster.com/html/tuning_webers.html



timsroadster.com wrote:There are some common misconceptions about Weber IDAs. I recall when I was designing the motor for my Cobra replica I was talking to a gentleman who is very highly regarded in the industry about my carburetion options. I told him that I was considering Weber IDAs. He was very adamant that the IDAs were a poor choice and went on to explain why. For my application (a 331 stroker small block Ford) the “traditional” carburetor might be a Holley 650 CFM four barrel. This carb has 4 bores that are approximately 43mm in diameter. A Weber IDA system for the same motor might use 8 bores that are maybe 40mm in diameter. He explained that the Webers would fall flat on their faces when nailing the throttle because they would suddenly be opening up nearly twice the throttle area of the Holley 4-barrel. This, he reasoned, would kill air velocity and therefore performance.

At first glance, his reasoning seems sound. But it’s actually not, and the reasons become clear if you think about it a little bit more. A motor demands air only one cylinder at a time. In a traditional 4-barrel setup, the carb is essentially only serving one cylinder at a time, and each cylinder “sees” all 4 barrels plus the entire manifold at WOT. In essence, this is just the opposite of what the expert explained to me. An engine with conventional carb sees far more area when the throttle is nailed than an engine with Webers. Consider an IDA on an individual runner. Each cylinder only “sees” its dedicated barrel and a very short manifold runner. It certainly doesn’t “see” any of the other independent barrels. This results in a very fast-moving air charge. Torque is a highly dependent on air velocity and high velocity increases torque. Since the runner is so short, the air can get moving very quickly, increasing throttle response. There is a reason that the Weber IDA on an independent runner manifold was the carburetor of choice for race cars prior to the advent of fuel injection. It provided the best torque, and throttle response – essential for a race car.




Ask Mike1157. After removing his turbo and putting a BMW M3 six ITB EFi system on, and finding it didn't have the mid range and high end grunt of a turbo, he then found a whole bunch of leaks and other issues. Which is common with multiple delivery fuel systems.

Carbs have a progression circuit, transfer slots and idle air bleeds, and this needs to be understood.

Its why some 32/36 and 5200/62xx/65xx Holley Weber cars don't idle, while others do.

Image

That's the difference between a loose torque system and one that eats other cars. The Italians shared the info to V8 engineers that made the Maserati Indy, Ghibbli, Khamsin, Bora and Aston Martin V8 Vantage. Ask an owner of them about Mid range and low end grunt. Those owners really know how great a non Fuel injected multiple carb engine is. Jay Leno on the Khamsin is great.

The late John Wyer (Aston Martin and GT40 race engineer) drove the first AMV8 Vantage, and was amazed that it felt better than the early Bosch Injected versions.


It's all good. :nod:
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Photo of small six with custom three 2-V manifold?

Post #49 by xctasy » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:18 pm

Howdy Bob the builder.


What's needed to make 280 rear wheel horspower and well over 390 horsepower at the flywheel in a Falcon Pick-up?

A minimum of Three 50 DCO carbs with 45 mm venturis.

I.e. Six 2 inch throttles with six 1-3/4 inch venturis.

see https://www.whichcar.com.au/events/drag ... -challenge

Image


Image

Image


The Aussie Cross Flow intake ports flow worse than the Vintage In lines / Classic inlines heads do, with ports that are smaller. The only restriction to horsepower with the aloy US 250 2V head is net valve lift from the valve lengths and valve guide positions, the rocker ratio, and your carb size.

Increasing the carb venturis and Isolating the runners to make it an Independent Throttle Body ITB system takes care of idle and performance. All idle problems are high port velocity issues in our less than port on port in line sixes. The best way to crucify performance is drop down in carb venturi size.

The six Venturi size basics that work to get flywheel net horspower are these:-


For any thing port on port, irresepctive of grouped plenumb, assuming a 5 inch from butterfly to valve head.

Up to 1.181" or 30mm,180 hp six
up to 1.260" or 32mm, 198 hp six
up to 1.378" or 35mm, 234 hp six
up to 1.496" or 38mm, 276 hp six
up to 1.575" or 40mm, 306 hp six
up to 1.653" or 42mm, 336 hp six
Up to 1.771" or 45mm, 390hp six
up to 1.889" or 48mm, 444 hp six
up to 1.968" or 50mm, 480 hp six
up to 2.047" or 52mm, 522 hp six
up to 2.126" or 54mm, 558 hp six.


To get those sizes, the carb throttle HAS to be at least 1.125 times the venturi size to flow well.

It's not got anything to do with CFM...that's a falsehood. It's got to do with the shape and size of the hourglass profile, and the goal is low air speeds of in some cases less than 17 feet per second at the peak flow.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Post #50 by chad » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:08 pm

I C Mr. Bernoulli is back ("hour glass").
Wonder if Giovanni Battista Veeeee is gettin jealous ?
:hmmm: :help:
:twisted:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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