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Pinto 2.3

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64 200 ranchero
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Pinto 2.3

Post #1 by 64 200 ranchero » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:07 pm

I just bought a 73 pinto with a 2.3 and was wondering how I can maximize mpg. I was thinking of installing a tempo tbi. It currently has a progressive Holley carb.
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.80 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Dynomax muffler, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #2 by xctasy » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:56 am

JF, you have a control systems background.

See MechRicks sensational post on

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863

The fuel economy of the 1980 5 speed Mustang 2300 before the EPA downward composite adjustment in 1981 was 38 miles per gallon at 55mph with a Tremec 142VS wide ratio gearbox with 0.79 5th gear and 3.45 6.75 or 7.5 axle.

The gains were via a downgraded primary venturi size to make it lean cruise with less gas consumption. The ports were reprofiled, and from that year till the last passenger car year in the 1993 Mustang, Ford fiddled with a range of ďowngraded truck feedback 1-bbls from 83 to 87, then port EFi, twin spark heads, and then in the Ranger, it got a whole bunch of regular mods, the little debored 2.0 72 hp trunpike Jammer from 83 to 88, with a Mazda 2bbl carb. At the very end, the small main bearing 2.5 crank.

Soo your first thing is to find out is what the engine block and head and ignition is because the old Bosch non electronic from a 1973 2000 Pinto swapped into a 2.3 with a turbo block with 8.2:1 compression and a really good EFi Turbo intake with work best with a 390 cfm Vac Sec Holley with a Percys adjuster jet on the front primaries. The reverse idle lean out and the modifications to make the ball check system stop frothing up the well tubes and idle air bleeds so it works on the Vibrating Hulk Lima OHC fixes the basics. The Power Valve channel restrictors and a 4180C pulldown choke helps the curb idle to be kept down to improve MPG.

Since its a 2.3, not a 2.0, then you can move to a 2.79 axle. Or a stock 3.40 Pinto 8" and a four stage A4LD. Or a T9 Merkur 5 speed or U shift Tremec T142 or a T5.

Your average aggrotate mileage is the LA Basin 7 mile 12 mode FTP75 emission test, and anytime you have a C3 auto you loose 13% of your 4speed manual mileage, and 25% off the best 5 speed manual T5.

You ignition, talk to FalconSixDelivery.

Spend some time looking at all the options.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #3 by xctasy » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:15 am

My personal advice / recomendation is a 4bbl repositioned Holley 390 vac sec, mounted FSD style.

Then a Duraspark II converted single line vacuum, new pickup and Farons choice of ignition curve to suit your compression, ignition and carb and transmission.

If you want to stay auto, which im guessing you do, then be bold and just get an early 5 speed 5R55 and hook it up with the 4 cylinder lock up clutch and use a Browns TPS to control the lock-up and transmission module.

Leave the 8 inch at a 3.25 or 3.4 or 3.8 ratio that it might be now.

The 0.75 overdrive and lock-up clutch were simply devine on my 98 XLT 4.0 Explorer.

The gearboxes are throwaways and mega strong with a really loose stall ratio unlocked, and now that Ford of Europe gave reinvested in the Bordeux French plant that nade it, it is great to pick up and use. The 4R44 front section from an auto 2.3 or 2.5 Ranger or a made up 5 speed auto Ranger 2.5 style auto should take care if your milage. Its just a Mustang II SR4 style transmount to mate it to your Pinto.

The 4bbl carb can be lean cruised off the Perceys Adjustajet...there us a lean cruise option they sell for jet sizrs of 40 to 60 on tge primaries instead if the stock 56 to 100 metering block which is really useless for a Four cylinder 4bbl.

The 4bbl improves idle and can be converted to four corner idle and 1981 to 1988 4bbl Truck pull down choke. It is much nicer with 16 thou PVCRs, and is sized nice for a street 2.3 liter
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #4 by 64 200 ranchero » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:36 am

Thanks Dean, I'm going to start searching for parts
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.80 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Dynomax muffler, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #5 by MechRick » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:07 pm

The '73 2.3L should have an oval port head. I would ditch that in favor of a 'D' port head and matching intake. A Ranger round port head and matching intake would be a good choice also.

The Weber carbs don't get as good fuel economy as the one barrel setups of the eighties Mustangs.

I've had the best fuel economy with fuel injection. And believe it or not, installing a small turbo will improve fuel economy a few MPG. Garrett T3 or even better, IHI RB52 off a Thunderbird turbo with injection gets ~30 mpg.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #6 by 64 200 ranchero » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:56 am

I just found a complete 79 turbo 2.3 draw through engine, turbo, and transmission for $500. Supposedly it was running before being pulled. Is the draw through setup Worth it? I heard that they are not very reliable. I'd just swap the intake since the draw through engine is the same as the na.
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.80 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Dynomax muffler, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #7 by xctasy » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:51 pm

The Ford Motor Company will spend $100‐million expanding its Lima, Ohio, engine plant to turn out four‐cylinder engines by late 1973.

These engines, for the Pinto small car, now are made in West Germany and Britain, but the engine imports will stop with the Lima expansion. Pinto production had been hobbled this spring because strikes at British plants delayed engine shipments.



First Question.

Why is your 1973 car a 2300? Should be a Black painted 2000

Second, is it gonna be emissions tested?

If not then a 2.3 Turbo is great engine.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #8 by 64 200 ranchero » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:13 pm

The previous owner swapped in a 2300. He also installed a mustang svo lower intake and built an adapter for a 2 barrel. It seems to work ok, but I'm sure that it's not a very ballanced setup.
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.80 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Dynomax muffler, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #9 by 64 200 ranchero » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:24 pm

http://www.mustanglab.com/mustang-speci ... ance-data/
It's a nice little boost of power and gas mileage isn't affected
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.80 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Dynomax muffler, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #10 by xctasy » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:27 pm

The automatic C3 was used behind some of the 2.3 Carb Turbo's for 1980, not the 79.

There is a labyrinth of Vacuum lines, which varied between 79 and 1980. The level of difficulty for the carb 2.3 turbo is very high if you decide not to follow the orthodox cross over pipe and VECI diagrams... something like the Null knob cluster has 5 system settings, and unless you have all the parts, its very hard to set up. The ignition, 9:1 forged pistons, the con rods, the turbo spec carb, all of it is pretty simple if you follow the advice of gr79 and m81mclaren on the Four Eyed pride forum. The whole system is sound. Parts exist, and they work fine with the 1980 emission VECI as a C3 automatic if you use those protocols.

see and read http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... r-15-years!


Page 11 is the gregpro50 helped turbo rebuild.


http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... rs!/page11


Page 2 of this post. http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... ost1913153

I'm kind of trying to see where you might go with this. I have to assure you of success.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #11 by xctasy » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:56 pm

See this on the ignition system.


viewtopic.php?f=34&t=78616&p=606972&hilit=carb+turbo+ignition#p606972

I'm lucky to have done an LPG blow through turbo 2.3/2.8 Cologne V6 engine.

The US 2.3 Carb turbo is much more complicated.

The parts that make this install hard are understanding how the standard parts work in together. Anything missing will cause mayhem.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #12 by 64 200 ranchero » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:36 pm

That is way complicated. I wonder if it would be possible to just set it up the same way that some of the guys on here have done with their draw through setups? :hmmm:
What if I were to plug all of the vacuum lines and run a Weber 32/36 or a 38/38 with a ds2 and a MSD box?
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.80 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Dynomax muffler, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #13 by xctasy » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:37 am

64 200 ranchero wrote:That is way complicated. I wonder if it would be possible to just set it up the same way that some of the guys on here have done with their draw through setups? :hmmm:
What if I were to plug all of the vacuum lines and run a Weber 32/36 or a 38/38 with a ds2 and a MSD box?



I grant you that its complicated. However, its single port advance Duraspark II and its ability to run on low octane gas while running a 9 to 1 compression was all due to the ability to tune the air fuel mixtures. The whole system is assuredly sound. Anything you do won't be better air fuel wise, and wont be certain to be sound. That's not a put down on your abilities or saying nyet to free thought.


The 2.3 is a small engine, and Ford worked hard to make it behave like a 137 or 140 hp Fox 5.0. It didn't, due to appalling gearing, the factory 1/4 mile times varied from 17.3 to 17.9 seconds, and some versions couldn't break 100 mph while the 5.0 did 16.7 to 17.0 seconds, auot or manual, and over 119 to 125 mph. An indication of power. With a loss of just 5.5 mpg at 55 mph, about 27 verses 21.5 mpg. The 2.3 carb turbo was supposed to be a big car engine for 2800 pound compacts and intermediate Foxes.

The wide ratio 4 and five speed manual transmissions and the very rare 1980 Fairmonts and Mustangs with the C3 auto and turbo carb were very badly geared, with a 3.45 axle, and that hurts the mid range and makes it a risk to miss shift and blow the engine up. Which happened, with conrod failure, leg out of bed blocks and many problems with the turbocharger.

I hope I'm not using Judge Judy language here, but the details on the Holley Weber carb mods were very structured, and with all the emission package in place, it at least worked well enough. I'm adamant that those awful gear ratios did more to wreck the dream than production compromises. All 2.3 turbo carb engines used the demon 3.45 7.5 " axle ratio. Those dreaded 4.05, 2.43, 1.48, 1.00:1 (and with the 0.82:1 ratio 5th) ratios are totally wrong for easy use in a lighter car. The C3's 2.48/1.48/1.00 are wrong with 3.45 axle ratio too.


Going back a step. A 5.5 to 7 pound turbo boost will make a C3 auto Pinto with a taller axle ratio (3.25/3.00/2.79) pretty nice.

All you really have to do is learn the emissions system, and use it to is advantage, and get the base advance and carb you have working the way the Chief Engineer at Ford intended in 1979.


If you go it alone off the normal build process, then your gong to have use an O2sensor, and control the whole air fuel ratio and advance curve yourself, and IMHO, that's going to be harder than using the default settings that are known to work. The Carb turbo 2.3 continued in Canada right up to the 1982 model yer, and then got replaced with the EFI Turbo 2.3.

The testimony of gr79, gregpro50, m81mclaren and about five others including TuxStang who has a French market factory automatic 1980 turbo......many of those others vouch that the whole system works well enough. It just looks nasty....


I trust precedent over anything else.

The 2305 Holley 500 cfm swap gr79 has done might be a good step up, if you want to do an elimination of the catalyst and some of the emissions gear. The user 80Capri did an extensive modification of his little non turbo 80 Capri, and the whole system was quickly replaced.

Four cylinders don't take well to draw through Weber conversions without the factory checks and balances

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... -3-a-Turbo


[QUOTE=xctasy;1820712]Easier than falling off a log, and you can do that in stages with the magic of the simplicity of these engines.


Take one bone stock U shift 5 speed non turbo Capri, and add parts in stages until automtive Nirvana occurs....

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/1507-we-have-a-soft-spot-for-the-fox-capri-and-this-1980-mercury-is-here-to-stay/



Image


80Merccapri's 5 speed 1980 Capri to Turbo conversion...with N20!

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?172175-Turbo-kit-options



Check out. http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?173837-Air-Fuel-Ratio


Standard problems have standard responses...



http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?143950-Fixing-the-W-option-Turbo-Carb-Mustang-and-Capri

Factory Pinto turbo 2 liter conversions with stock parts done for many years on the little forgein 1594 debored and destroked OHC, also some 1993 cc's were regularly blow through turboed.

The 5200 Holley Weber (or its nearly mirror image 32/36 Weber brother) is a great blow through carb.

Image

Image


The Isuzu 1600 and 2000, 2200 and 2500 engines were turboed with a factory Ford 2-bbl Holley Weber or the similar 32/36 DGV.

Aussie GM Holden guys exclusively hunt out the F-O-R-D Pinto engines fuel delivery parts to make quick, reliable turbo Holden Gemini sleepers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_QmGq7zSfs

The work done by Ak Miller and David Vizard on the shorter 1970-1973 Pinto 2000 EOA is able to be perfectly replicated these days.

Check out. http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?173837-Air-Fuel-Ratio[/QUOTE]
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #14 by bubba22349 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:00 am

64 200 ranchero wrote:I just found a complete 79 turbo 2.3 draw through engine, turbo, and transmission for $500. Supposedly it was running before being pulled. Is the draw through setup Worth it? I heard that they are not very reliable. I'd just swap the intake since the draw through engine is the same as the na.


I think it might be better to swap in the whole engine as the Turbo engine has forged pistons over the N.A. Cast pistion short block. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Pinto 2.3

Post #15 by xctasy » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:13 am

1. For 2.3's, the slipper skirt is best TIG welded up, and the oil lands circumferential drilled. Busted piston skirts do happen.

As long as the dreaded shallow tapper issue discussed by Uncle Tony's Garage

https://youtu.be/hxVx3WGwwgc

and Mike1157's 2618's suffered that as well. Most likely a sleeve application problem that I've never seen before.

As long as that don't bite your butt, the 2.3 will work with whatever you have.



2. Forged pistons are interesting:-

The 1962 340-hp, 327-ci engine received the first factory- designed forged pistons, by Federal Mogul. and thereafter they were offered in high performance 327, 302, and 350 engines. The 327-type dome was used through 1967 on all high-performance 327 engines and in the 1967 302-cid Z28 engine. About this time, Mahle introduced solid skirt high silicon content pistons for GM Holden's 186 and 202 engines, Repco used this, and it was based on the eventual Cologne V6 piston in the 1969 Capri 2.3, RS2600 and later, the 1974 2.8 Mustang


Ford reciprocated various kinds of forged pop-up pistons to achieve the desired 10.5:1 compression ratio with the 302 Boss. That same piston appeared on the forged pop-up (domed) Boss 351C. Then 30, 60 and 80 thou overs, like the special XH-10588-marked forged pistons made for this engine by TRW, a Boss non solid skirt piston which was often a cause of some bore splitting. Then for 79, the 2.3 Carb turbo used that kind too.


All early pistons were VMS-75 or early variations of "4032" alloy. For 1983, the return of the Turbo 2.3, it VMS-75. AA4032 = "4032" and 2618-T61 = "2618" These have become common go to replacements as of about the Zollener period of 1999 with the 5.4's, a time of landmark piston slap issues for Ford and GM production cars in the Ford 4.6 and LS series 5.7 liter OBDII era.

5.0 HO's from 1985 to build dates ending in July 1992, then the later In the USA the Ford E7ZE TRW forged piston was dis-continued during the '92 model year and replaced by the F3ZE hyper-eutectic piston.


Now.

If you want 132 hp by a 390 cfm 4-bbl carb, you'll get about 130 lb-ft of torque at 3500 rpm, and you'll have to rev it harder than a 2.3 Carb turbo making 132 hp and 142 lb-ft at 2800rpm.

Choice is yours. Since its automatic, I'd just go right for a turbo, and enjoy it.

The EFI system used from 1983 to 1989 on the 2.3 turbos, and on the Four cylinder Mustang non turbo EFI's and the last of the 2.3 and 2.5 Ranger trucks that would be an engine to MegaSquirt.

For me, because I understand fuel trim by Percy's Adjustajet, and love the 390 or 465 Holley 4bbl, I'd go right to https://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/ and rework one.

Use the Duraspark II single advance tube unit, and use the EFi intake, and use JACook's propane method to tune the air fuel ratios. For air fuel control, use a narrow band Bosch O2 sensor, and copy all of Walking Tall's tricks to read the stock Fox O2 sensor.

And I'll buy your turbo and all the emission parts.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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