All Small Six Early (1964) 200 ??

[Eaglo]

I have a dilemma. I have a motor with Block # C4OE-6015-A . It's in an Econoline. Probably originally came from a Fairlane. It has five freeze plugs in the right side, so I always assumed it was a seven-bearing 200. I seem to remember it having dished pistons, which would support that it's a 200 and not a 170. Now I'm not sure what it is.

Several years ago, I replaced the head and never measured the cylinders. I believe it has the larger distributor shaft. The thing had adjustable rocker arms, but from all I could tell it seemed to have hydraulic lifters, so I adjusted the valves as hydraulics and it runs great like that. Had its original cross hatching on the cylinder walls.

So here's my question: Is this a 200 with seven bearings? Or is it a 170? Or is it an oddball on of the early 200s with four bearings? Does it have solid or hydraulic lifters? Just what have I got?

I've read all the books; the Falcon Performance Handbook doesn't even mention the casting number. One guy on a forum says he opened one with this casting number and found four bearings even though it had five frost plugs. Hard to believe but I know there were some early 200's with four bearings.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I don't want to pull the head or the oil pan; at least not right now.

Thanks for any help.

 

[bubba22349]

The first Ford 200 Six'es came out in 1963 1/2 it was designed for use in the Ford Fairlane's and also used in some Mercury Monarch's. There were some special 1/2 year Ford Models built in 1963 1/2 as part of kicking off “Fords Total Performance Years”! Your block number C4OE-6015-A supports it being one of those early Ford 200 Six Block's.

C = The Decade of 1960
4 = Year 1960 + 4 = 1964
O = Car Model Line The Part Was Designed For, this number designates it was for a Fairlane.
E = The Engineering Department that Designed the part E = Engines
6015 = This is Ford’s Generic Part Number for a Cylinder Block
A = First Design of this part

These engines were also an engine option in Ford Falcon's & Mercury Comet's starting in the 1964 Model year too. I was interested in buying a 1964 Falcon Futura Fordor Sedan (it was loaded with many options) that I found recently near by it also had this early 200 Six Engine, they are not found very often today.

Yes these first 200's only had the four main bearing crankshafts in a configuration just like all of the early 144's, and the early 170's except for the 200’s longer stroke length and they also share many of the other design features of those other two early small sixes. As a side note these 200 cranks can be easily swapped into a 170 block to make a 182 Cu, In. (Stock Bore) or more if bored over size, short block. Yes correct to my knowledge all of the 200 six short blocks will only have 5 freeze plugs. But no these early 1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2 200 blocks will only have the early smaller 1/4 inch oil pump drive. Yes they will also have a cast dished piston same as all the other 200’s used (there were two piston dish volumes in the later 200’s a larger one used for later 1969’s California Emission engines to lower it's Compression Ratio). Yes the 144 & 170 engines both had the Flat Top Piston's. Yes it has Hydraulic lifters same as all other 200 Six’s do, and just as most of the other 1963 up Ford six engines do (there are some exceptions of certain 170 cu. in. sixes still using solid lifters until around some of the 1965 (like in the truck models, I.E. Econoline's, Ranchero's, & Sedan Delivery's). Ford also still used the adjustable rockers arms on some of these early hydraulic lifter Six engines too until the 1965 models and of course its also a very popular swap item on the many years of the Hydraulic Lifter Cam 170's, 200's & 250 Six's. One other peculiar thing to note is that these early 200 engines like the early 144’s and early 170’s will only have the smaller bell housing bolt pattern along with the 1965 200’s a C5DE-6015-A block which was the first to get the newer 7 main bearing crankshaft. So yes in my option you have one of these first 200 sixes. Best of luck

 

[Eaglo]

Thanks for the note and the information. There's a harmonic balancer on it, while I thought some of the early motors just had a pulley. So do you think that every 200 with a C4 casting has just the four bearings? It runs great.

 

[bubba22349]

Yes any Ford small six block with a C0 to C4 Casting / Design Number is going to only have a four main crankshaft, as well as any of the several other sizes of pre 1965 Ford six’s. The 7 main crankshaft was first put into production in the 1965 model year six's in both the Small Six's (200) and Big Block six's (240 & 300). A 200 Six with a 7 main crankshaft will have at least a C5AE-6015-A Block Casting / Design Number or one of the many other higher numbers used on the later 200’s.

 

[Eaglo]

Other than dished pistons, how would I know this is a 200 as opposed to a 170?

 

[100_2023]

*

 

[bubba22349]

The easiest way is to look for the 5 soft / freeze plugs located on the side of the block that all 200's & 250's will have, the 144 or 170 six's will have only 3 soft plugs, (you also would never find a 250 six without a least C9 or higher block casting number). You can also measure the stroke lenght by using a wire in one of the spark plug holes, find TDC make a mark on the wire then find BDC and make another mark than measure the distance between the two marks. A 200 six has a stroke length of 3.126 inches, a 170 six has a stroke length of 2.940 inches. Good luck

 

[Eaglo]

Thank you Bubba, for your help!

 

[bubba22349]

Your very welcome!

 

[ATM]

Yes any Ford small six block with a C0 to C4 Casting / Design number is going to only have a four main crankshaft, as well as any of the several other pre 1965 Ford six’s. The 7 main crankshaft was first put into production in the 1965 model year six’es in both the small and large block six'es. A 200 six with a 7 main crankshaft will have at least a C5AE-6015-A block casting / design number or one of the many other numbers used on the later 200’s.

Bubba,
Are you cock sure ALL C4OE block number 200 engines have only 4 main bearings? I need a 200 block (mine is cracked) for my 1965 seven main bearings 200 rebuild and have found a FREE 200 with five freeze plugs and C4OE stamped on the block. If this FREE 200 has only 4 main bearings, I can't use it. Please confirm.
Thank you, Alfred

Alfred.T.Marshall@gmail.com

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, I am pretty sure if the block has 5 core plugs on the passenger side it has to have 7 main bearings. Most everything will interchange between the 4 main blocks and the 7 main blocks except the crankshaft, and possibly the distributor. Good luck

 

[bubba22349]

Hi Alfred, welcome to the Ford Six Forum. First off yes all years of the 200 Six's are going to have the 5 Freeze Plugs in the side of the Engine Block. I am sorry but yes those first 1 1/2 years of 200 Six production (starting in the mid year of 1963 (made for the new and first time offered to my knowledge new 1963 1/2 mid year models) and also the 200 built until the end of the 1964 year models are going to only have 4 Bolt Main blocks. Below are a few pictures of a very early 200 Six Long Block 1st picture shows the C4OE-6015-A Casting / Design Number. in the 2nd picture is the Stamped Short Block Number that Ford used to ID the Engine Size of the Pre 1965 Engines. In the 3rd picture is the back of the Block Showing that it only has the Small Bolt Pattern Bell Housing Size like all other Ford Small Sixes from 1960 to end of 1965. In the 4th picture you can see that it has the Adjustable Rocker Arm's even though these were all Hydraulic Lifter Cam Engine's. The 5th picture is of a very Early 200 Six Log Head with a very Unique Number C3DE-6090-DX10, this decodes as a 1963 Head Design made for a Falcon Engine the DX10 the D means it is a 4th Revision part the X might make it an Experimental Part the 10 maybe means its even had more revisions on top of that. The Head Casting Date Code is hard to see maybe is 3B last looks like a C that one doesn't make as much sense the 3B part it will decode as February 1963 if its a C it may mean it was done in the third week of February in any case it is a very early made casting for a use on 1963 1/2 Model. There will also be a Casting Date Code on the Short Block that I wish I had a picture of it looks like a small metal plate and has a Straight Blade Screw Head on each end of it it will have 2 or 3 Numbers and a Letter on it (see 6th Picture for an example of what they look like). If you can find and read it than I would probably be able to tell you the exact day that Block or Head was cast at the Ford Engine Foundry.

Those early 200 Six Blocks C4OE-6015-A Block Casting's are all going to be a 4 Main Block you need at least a C5AE-6015-A block or newer to find one of the 7 Main Blocks there were 18 years worth of them made. It's a shame I sure wouldn't mind finding one of those blocks to use and to document all their differences and those 4 Main Crankshafts are very rare now days I know the that early 200 Six Engine isn't useful to fix your 1965 7 main Short Block but it should be saved. Good luck in the hunt.

 

[ATM]

Bubba,
Thanks for your information, NOT what I wanted to hear. My search will continue...
Alf