All Small Six Ford 200 idle slightly shaky vacuum slow movement 18-18.75. At a loss?

This relates to all small sixes
Will the Distributors Vacuum Advance Canister Hold A Vacuum with a Vacuum Pump or by sucking on the vacuum Line while it's disconnected at the Carb fitting and then watching that the Point Plate inside the Distributor moves to advance it and that it's holding that advanced position?
 
Hi, what spark plugs do you have? What kind of PCV valve is that? I wonder because later parts do not always work so well on older engines. Also did you pinch off the vacuum hose going to the transmission vacuum modulater? This is a process of elimination. Good luck
 
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Thanks, Need to check the dwell angle but all else should be right on. I did adjust the point gap per the Manual .025.
Dshak65- welcome! I recommend a dwell test for sure. Sometimes on old engines the wear of the points rubbing block will make the correct feeler gage setting too wide, there will be less dwell than is correct even though the points spacing is "at specks" by the feeler. Set the points with the dwell meter, then check the gap with the feeler. This will be your correct starting-point gap from then on.
Also, I suspect the engine inhaled water. A bent rod and bent pushrods is a tell-tale. I'm sure you planed the head and block before reassembly.
Peace
 
Dshak65- welcome! I recommend a dwell test for sure. Sometimes on old engines the wear of the points rubbing block will make the correct feeler gage setting too wide, there will be less dwell than is correct even though the points spacing is "at specks" by the feeler. Set the points with the dwell meter, then check the gap with the feeler. This will be your correct starting-point gap from then on.
Also, I suspect the engine inhaled water. A bent rod and bent pushrods is a tell-tale. I'm sure you planed the head and block before reassembly.
Peace
Thanks Frank. Sorry for A bit of a delayed response. Still have not fixed. Not sure on the hydra lock on the bent components. Guess it could have been but was very mild. Whomever rebuilt the engine initially did a butcher job. Will spare the details. That said I checked dwell and actually replaced points cond and coil so it was all new. The head did not need to be planed. Had my local race engine shop check. All good compression with in 5%. I guess I could try a leak down test but given the good compression 165-170 range thought we should be good. I did all the vacuum tests with no issue. The loadomatic dist is working as it should. The only thing I can think of is they replaced the carb with a aftermarket. It is a repo Autolite 1100 with scv. I pulled the carb apart adjusted float and the pumps. Just wondering if there is something not right with it. Still at a loss. Tough to find an Autolite 1100 FOMOCO with manual choke for rebuild.
 
Hi, what spark plugs do you have? What kind of PCV valve is that? I wonder because later parts do not always work so well on older engines. Also did you pinch off the vacuum hose going to the transmission vacuum modulater? This is a process of elimination. Good luck
Hi. The plugs are Ngk which replaced the original Autolite same result. Yup, I did all of the vacuum tests. All checked out fine.
 
Thanks Frank. Sorry for A bit of a delayed response. Still have not fixed. Not sure on the hydra lock on the bent components. Guess it could have been but was very mild. Whomever rebuilt the engine initially did a butcher job. Will spare the details. That said I checked dwell and actually replaced points cond and coil so it was all new. The head did not need to be planed. Had my local race engine shop check. All good compression with in 5%. I guess I could try a leak down test but given the good compression 165-170 range thought we should be good. I did all the vacuum tests with no issue. The loadomatic dist is working as it should. The only thing I can think of is they replaced the carb with a aftermarket. It is a repo Autolite 1100 with scv. I pulled the carb apart adjusted float and the pumps. Just wondering if there is something not right with it. Still at a loss. Tough to find an Autolite 1100 FOMOCO with manual choke for rebuild.
Sounds like you're on top of the important details. . I watched your vacuum gauge video again. Usually on a carb mixture problem, the pattern of the vacuum change is different. Not sure I can explain- I look at a vacuum gauge constantly while driving, I can spot when the idle mixture needs tweaking instantly. Yours is in a "longer pattern" , that is, it's stable then drops several inches in something like a "surge", then returns to stable. The rpm drops when it drops too. .
What comes to mind: 1) the China carbs can be bad, few are correct out of box. You've checked the float and pumps, but there's been other issues posted. One was leaking fuel past a gasket, going rich. On my YF china carb, the vacuum advance port inside the throttle bore was machined too high, didn't advance soon enough. Stupid stuff, poor craftsmanship. Anyway, check that the carb is not somehow going rich momentarily. Look into the bore when it's idling and verify that no fuel is pulling out of the main circuit at the venturi, or from anywhere else. At night with flashlight or timing light shining into the carb will spot it best. If fuel is intermittently being drawn out of the main circuit, you will see it, and hear it when the fuel goes around the closed throttle. I've seen this cause similar idle symptoms, when the float is adjusted too high. Smell the exhaust while it's idling, see if it's rich. Excessive fuel pressure will cause this type of bowl flooding also.
All this said, it looks more like a valve problem to me. If a lifter stays pumped up intermittently it will cause that valve to stay just cracked open, and the symptoms are similar. I'm not making this up, I have this issue right now with an old 7.3L non-turbo diesel in a '89 F250. one exhaust lifter is stuck "pumped up", and it sounds exactly like a burnt valve at the tail pipe, and vibrates at idle but still has enough compression to fire. a "1/4 miss", if you will. When I loosen the rocker nut, it clears up instantly. I'm not familiar with the rocker arm design on the 200, but if the lifters have an adjustable pre-load, they may be too tight. A sticking or held open valve would align with the "1/4 miss" idle vibration also. An open valve may be discernable audibly at the exhaust as well. If the carb checks out and it sounds like a "partial miss" at the exhaust when it drops down, it's probably a valve.
Anyway, hope you find the source!
Peace
 
Thanks for the input. Did a leak down test just to confirm no valve issue and everyone was~ 95% at 100psi. Ended up buying a good autolite 1100 core and rebuilt. Car runs night and day. Vacuum is now barely moving. Couple fine tune adjustments and should be good. What a difference. Can’t even believe the power difference. One last item but think it could be the torque converter. When I adjust the idle to 550 in drive with brake one it no longer shakes but when I put it back in park the idle is ~950. Seems a little high?
 
Sure sounds like your New Carb had some internal issues going on. Yes that's a bit high of an Idle usually they will be around 650 to 750 RPM in Park or Neutral after setting them to Idle in Drive setting. did you set it to the Lean best Idle first? You could also try 500 or even 450 RPM in Drive to see if that brings it down. Good luck
 
Thanks for the input. Did a leak down test just to confirm no valve issue and everyone was~ 95% at 100psi. Ended up buying a good autolite 1100 core and rebuilt. Car runs night and day. Vacuum is now barely moving. Couple fine tune adjustments and should be good. What a difference. Can’t even believe the power difference. One last item but think it could be the torque converter. When I adjust the idle to 550 in drive with brake one it no longer shakes but when I put it back in park the idle is ~950. Seems a little high?
Good deal! Really glad you found a real carburetor! (y)
If your base timing is real high (early) there is more of an rpm fall-off under closed-throttle load. Is your vacuum advance on manifold or ported vacuum? If it's on manifold, try ported, it should bring the rpm difference between P and D down. . just remembered you may have the load-o-matic timing control. If not, try the ported vacuum port and see if it helps.
Peace.
 
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