All Small Six Fuel Pump Question 1967 Bronco 170 Six

[iSense67]

I have a 1967 Bronco with a 170 six. After a maddening process I finally had my issue diagnosed and its my Fuel pump is not keeping up and hence starving my engine. With that in mind, I am having electric wipers installed so I do not need a vacuum pump which are MUCH more expensive. As I look at the mechanical pumps for non electric I am concerned that the cam is different. Does anyone know if this is an issue and where can I find a pump that is non vacuum? Here are a few links and I was hoping to buy locally to avoid shipping...

This version says its for 1969 and up...mine is a 1967 so will the cam be different and therefore this is not a solution?
https://shop.broncograveyard.com/19...tDOLRfhGj58SqdAbdmHyj3scXK7FyvQQaAigqEALw_wcB

This is the version I have now but I do not need the vacuum plus this is more than triple the cost.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/...1/automotive-suv-1967-ford-bronco?q=fuel+pump

Does anyone know of if one of the auto parts chains has a mechanical option that will fit (cam) that has the non wiper vacuum port that I do not need? I am just looking for the least expensive solution to get back on the road...

thank you in advance for your thoughts...

 

[mustang6]

Never knew the cam was different to support the vacuum fuel pump, as this and your other post show. If you aren’t using vacuum and don’t want to change the cam, I’d be inclined to cap it off and run an electric fuel pump.

 

[drag-200stang]

I think all SB6's cam fuel pump lobes are the same.
I like the faster starting with the electric being able to prime the carb with fuel before cranking, but they are more work to hook up. Sure, that the pump is bad and not fuel line pickup clogged.

 

[drag-200stang]

That first one you posted in the fine print says that it is for 66-74 broncos with electric wipers. They did not make a special cam for vacuum wipers, so this one should work.

 

[Slickster]

I installed a mechanical pump on my 68, after multiple carb overflows, I had to add a pressure regulator...keep that in mind if you run into issues

 

[iSense67]

I think all SB6's cam fuel pump lobes are the same.
I like the faster starting with the electric being able to prime the carb with fuel before cranking, but they are more work to hook up. Sure, that the pump is bad and not fuel line pickup clogged.

Yes I replaced the fuel line

 

[drag-200stang]

Yes I replaced the fuel line

That is not what all I asked, So the line into the tank and the filter on it is not clogged?
If a new pump fixes it, that is all that matters.

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

iSense67, what pump did you end up purchasing?

 

[iSense67]

iSense67, what pump did you end up purchasing?

I ended up using an electric pump. It fixed the dying issue but it’s running rough. I’ve brought this to 3 shops and it was running smooth before except the when it acted up. This latest issue is like a vibration and it barely gets up to 40 mph. The only thing I had the mechanic do was replace the points and he said the distributor was loose so he tightened it and checked the timing. When I picked it up it was running worse than before. So I took it to another shop and he added the fuel pump and checked the points gap and dwell but couldn’t figure out the problem. I’m in over $1000 and i can’t drive this bronco 5 miles without a problem. It’s very frustrating.

 

[iSense67]

I ended up using an electric pump. It fixed the dying issue but it’s running rough. I’ve brought this to 3 shops and it was running smooth before except the when it acted up. This latest issue is like a vibration and it barely gets up to 40 mph. The only thing I had the mechanic do was replace the points and he said the distributor was loose so he tightened it and checked the timing. When I picked it up it was running worse than before. So I took it to another shop and he added the fuel pump and checked the points gap and dwell but couldn’t figure out the problem. I’m in over $1000 and i can’t drive this bronco 5 miles without a problem. It’s very frustrating.

In summary here is what has been done to it.

New plugs
New coil
New points and condenser
New pvc
New fuel line
New fuel filter
Rebuilt carburetor
New fuel pump
Checked for vacuum and everything was perfect

It starts up easily, idles fine. Note when you drive out it vibrates and isn’t smooth like it was before I started all of this so I solved one issue but all this work has created another. And as I said I’m on my 3 rd mechanic and none of them can figure this out. Any wisdom would be welcome.

 

[bubba22349]

Have you done a Compression Test Yet? Was the Distributors upper shaft bushing checked for excessive play? What is the PSI of that electric Fuel Pump?

 

[iSense67]

Have you done a Compression Test Yet? Was the Distributors upper shaft bushing checked for excessive play? What is the PSI of that electric Fuel Pump?

The psi is 4-5. Will find out about bidding shaft. I know one of the ships said it was loose but after that ship was when I had these problems

 

[bubba22349]

Excellent 4 to 5 PSI Fuel Pressure is right were it needs to be, so that rules out too High of fuel pressure! A Distributor that has a loose upper bushing allows the Points Dwell Angle to change radically. Sadly most people now days wont have the experience or know how to get the points adjusted correctly to compensate for a loose distributor bushing. The way to test that is with a Tach / Dwell Meter when you will see the Dwell going away as soon as you start raising the engine RPM above Idle. Sounds like you probably will need to find a rebuilt distributor. Which Carburetor are you using on your 1967 Bronco?

 

[iSense67]

Excellent 4 to 5 PSI Fuel Pressure is right were it needs to be, so that rules out too High of fuel pressure! A Distributor that has a loose upper bushing allows the Points Dwell Angle to change radically. Sadly most people now days wont have the experience or know how to get the points adjusted correctly to compensate for a loose distributor bushing. The way to test that is with a Tach / Dwell Meter when you will see the Dwell going away as soon as you start raising the engine RPM above Idle. Sounds like you probably will need to find a rebuilt distributor. Which Carburetor are you using on your 1967 Bronco?

Great advice I will have that tested! It’s just odd in that the current problem is different than before as it drive smooth like a fine watch for up to an hour then it acted up. This issue started after I had the shop change the points and they did something to the distributor as they said it was loose. The carb is an auto lite 1100 that I rebuilt. It worked great after I did that but still has the issue after driving awhile. That’s why we then identified the fuel pump so an electric one was just added. Now it sends to not die but it’s really rough under load.

 

[bubba22349]

Yes that's is odd that the problem started after the shop changed the points, however sadly its not unusual I can't tell you how many times I have worked on cars and trucks to fix a bad point ignition tune up job. In one case a guy at the Construction Company were I was the mech wanted to sell me his little Honda so cheap after he had changed the points and couldn't get it to run again, I offered to help him get it going but he said he was done with it, even though I didn't really want or need it I bought it had it running great in less than 10 minutes and with no extra parts. It seems that very few auto techs know how to do a point ignition I guess that kind of knowledge is becoming what mostly only the old timers have. If you can post a picture of the distributor with the Cap removed to see the points I might be able to see what's wrong with what they did. But if there is a very loose top bushing as it sounds like by your description then it takes a more experienced person to know how to compensate for that bushing wear so the engine runs decent and still the best way is going be to replace it with a fresh rebuilt distributor. I can tell you how to test this also by hand so there is no out of pocket cost.

So is your Autolite 1100 one that has a SCV? If it is than the Distributor they used was the LOM (Load O Matic) with its Vacuum Advance only Depending on which market your Bronco was built for. These Distributors were changed first in the Calif. sold Ford's in 1966 and a little later on then the rest of the country in 1968 to 1974 the better breaker point Duel Advance Distributor's. Some good pictures of your Carb and Distributor will help in Idling them. With a real lack of knowledge of these older LOM ignitions systems often the wrong Distributor and Carb are paired together and this causes problems in drivability and economy. Here is a fairly good article that describes the operation of the Load O Matic Ignition System. https://www.fordsix.com/ci/Loadomatic.html

The Duel Advance Distributors were Fords Improvement to the small six engines as mentioned Ford finally first started using them in the model year 1966 on Inline Sixes to improve the Emissions and Fuel economy of the all the sixes. Ford had already dropped the LOM system on the V8 engines long before in 1957. This would be a good drop in upgrade if you wanted to do it and the engine will still look factory stock. If you wanted there are ways to go to the an electronic ignition and still look completely stock. Best of luck

 

[iSense67]

Yes that's is odd that the problem started after the shop changed the points, however sadly its not unusual I can't tell you how many times I have worked on cars and trucks to fix a bad point ignition tune up job. In one case a guy at the Construction Company were I was the mech wanted to sell me his little Honda so cheap after he had changed the points and couldn't get it to run again, I offered to help him get it going but he said he was done with it, even though I didn't really want or need it I bought it had it running great in less than 10 minutes and with no extra parts. It seems that very few auto techs know how to do a point ignition I guess that kind of knowledge is becoming what mostly only the old timers have. If you can post a picture of the distributor with the Cap removed to see the points I might be able to see what's wrong with what they did. But if there is a very loose top bushing as it sounds like by your description then it takes a more experienced person to know how to compensate for that bushing wear so the engine runs decent and still the best way is going be to replace it with a fresh rebuilt distributor. I can tell you how to test this also by hand so there is no out of pocket cost.

So is your Autolite 1100 one that has a SCV? If it is than the Distributor they used was the LOM (Load O Matic) with its Vacuum Advance only Depending on which market your Bronco was built for. These Distributors were changed first in the Calif. sold Ford's in 1966 and a little later on then the rest of the country in 1968 to 1974 the better breaker point Duel Advance Distributor's. Some good pictures of your Carb and Distributor will help in Idling them. With a real lack of knowledge of these older LOM ignitions systems often the wrong Distributor and Carb are paired together and this causes problems in drivability and economy. Here is a fairly good article that describes the operation of the Load O Matic Ignition System. https://www.fordsix.com/ci/Loadomatic.html

The Duel Advance Distributors were Fords Improvement to the small six engines as mentioned Ford finally first started using them in the model year 1966 on Inline Sixes to improve the Emissions and Fuel economy of the all the sixes. Ford had already dropped the LOM system on the V8 engines long before in 1957. This would be a good drop in upgrade if you wanted to do it and the engine will still look factory stock. If you wanted there are ways to go to the an electronic ignition and still look completely stock. Best of luck

Great story and crazy fortuitous the issue was driving me nuts today so I opened the hood and studied what they did. After 10 minutes of looking at it I noticed they had the spark plug wires on two in the wrong order. I suspect that was done at the previous garage that put in the points then the second garage that put in the fuel pump repeated the mistake. When I put them in correct order it now runs like a fine watch and the new fuel pump corrected my original issues. I just drive it for two hits and worked perfect with zero driving issues. That said I noticed an oil leak from the disconnected fuel pump the previous mechanic removed and put back on. I am trying to find a backing plate but none of the auto parts stores have one for the 170 six. Any thoughts?

Also I have the original carb version…but now it’s fixed I know it’s not the carb

 

[bubba22349]

Congrats on finding what was wrong, that is certainly a very sad state of affairs' when two shops couldn't fix such a simple engine as a Ford Six! Yes I seen your other post and answered it with the right block off plate to look for, good luck.