200ci I know this has probably been asked before. The 1966 200 CI 6 cyl is listed at 120 hp. I am thinking about replacing it with a 1979 200 CI,,,,,,but

[chad]

"...I am thinking about replacing it with..."
never trust them to ID 200 v 250 v anything else. They don't know. Count frez plugs/H2O pump bolts'n in the course of events may B the pad where the 'rd draft tube' was/is. As B Ron above - get "the Handbook", read the above archive while waiting for delivery.

The Ford Falcon SIX Cylinder PERFORMANCE HANDBOOK | Vintage Inlines

The Ford Falcon SIX Cylinder Performance Handbook has 107 pages of History, Facts, and Information to help you get more power out of your small Ford SIX. This engine was used in Falcons, Mustangs, Fairlaines, and Comets in the 60’s. It was the FoMoCo workhorse in Mavericks, Granadas, and...

www.vintageinlines.com

Classic Inlines

 

[bubba22349]

Thank you Bubba, the Mustang I have was an early '65, with the 170 engine, WILL the oil pan and oil pickup still fit on this '79 200? Would you happen to have the part number for that larger bell, so I can hunt for it? As Xtcasy noted above, that dip stick tube, and oil pickup hole should already be there on the 1979 engine I'm going to look at, right. Thanks

Yes I think that $200.00 for that compleate 1979 200 is a very good deal I would certainly jump on it has it has so many of the more desirable parts such as one of the better large log heads, the DuraSpark II Distribitor, the clutch fan assembly (one of my favorites for a street driver and not so easy to come by) and that cable clutch pedal type bell housing that will let you easily bolt up one of the T4 or T5 transmissions. You also stated above that your 65 Mustang was an early model with a 170 and Automatic Trans I guess it would be helpful to know what your plans for the mod's on it then we can recommend the right parts for you that will take it in the right direction that you want to go. Still even if your plans are different the 1979 engine would be a good place to start and you can always trade or sell off those parts that don't work for your goals Best of luck.

 

[myrod1937]

Thank you Bubba. When I looked up this motor, it says it was used in 1979, 1980, and 1981. So, when I look at this block, the casting number should read; D9ZE for 1979 Mustang. If the the block is '80, or '81 it would start with the letter E and have a zero, or a one, as xctasy stated. To be clear, you were able to identify the bell housing in my picture, as being one that would accept easily (w/o adapters) either a manual T-5, or a C-4 automatic. On the T-5, I'd have to add a clutch pedal and clutch cable to my car (easy to do?). Thanks again
Oh, the C-4 was off a 302, don't guess that flex plate would work?

 

[bubba22349]

It's a fact that you can learn a lot from that short block's and its head's Casting Numbers if fact with them and togeather with their Casting Date Code Numbers I can tell you the exact day that Ford cast those parts at their engine foundry. Sometimes it's not that important except when you need to find or order a replacement part.

To me it's never been that hard to change an Auto Trans car or truck to a manual Trans or vice versa I have done them on many over the years. The good thing about these Fords is that the brake pedal support assembly under the dash is basically the same for an Auto or Manual Trans brake pedal assembly so you only need to change out the the pedals. So you just need to acquire a clutch and brake pedal set if that's not available in your local junk yards, here is a new set that's not to bad a price. https://www.cjponyparts.com/cj-classics-brake-and-clutch-pedal-assembly-manual-transmission-1965-1966/p/3624C/?msclkid=8725070987fd1afa120366dd30271025&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=New Bing Shopping Ads&utm_term=1101201851898&utm_content=All Products
Check out the support assembles bushings and bearing surfaces for wear, if I was rebuilding one of these support assemblies today that was very worn I would go with the Roller Bearing converstion Kits to repair it as well as making the pedals a little easier to push.
Here is the link for info on the Mustang Steve Cable Clutch Pedal parts and kits. https://mustangsteve.com/product-category/clutch-kits/

If you wanted to stay with an Automatic Trans then yes if that 302 C4 Trans is the Case Fill type Trans (some pictures is all I need to give a posative ID) than it could also be used since the V8 C4's have more clutches inside it will be very strong Trans to use for a six. To do this swap and be a direct bolt in you will need only to find a few parts, these are a 1965 to 1981 Ford 170 / 200 Six C4 Tin Block spacer Plate. a 1965 to 1981 Ford 170 / 200 Six Flex Plate, a 170 / 200 Six Troque Convertor with the correct input Shaft Spline count (this is determined by the year of the Trans. Now if your orginal 1964 1/2 to 1965 170 engine still has its Auto Trans this should also be a C4 will have most all of the parts you will need to do this swap i.e. The Tin Block Plate, the Flex Plate, and the correct C4 bell housing, the torque convertor may also work if the 302 C4 was a 1968 or 1969 Trans otherwise you need the TC. There is three different possibilities that have two different input shaft diameters and there are three different spline counts.

1. First one is a 1964 to 1969 C4 has a .788 inch diameter input shaft and a TC with a 24 Spline count.
2. Next is the one year only 1970 C4's with a .839 inch Dia. input shaft and a TC with a 26 spline count.
3. The last and by far the most common is the 1971 to 1981 C4's again with a .839 inch Dia. input shaft but now with a TC with a 24 Spline count.

Last you would also need to find a 1965 to 1981 Ford 170 / 200 Six C4 Bell Housing these are the small bolt patteren bell housings that can bolt right on the front of the Case Fill C4's so you just unbolt your current C4 V8 bell housing and install and torque the bolts on the correct Six Cylinder bell housing, that's all. I do like to use a TransGo Shift Kit in my C4's and a small Aux. Trans Cooler. Best of luck

 

[myrod1937]

Thank you for the info. I actually have a couple C-4's, I'll take a pic of them tomorrow and see what you think.

 

[myrod1937]

I was into this stuff years ago, but lost interest, decided to try to now finish a couple projects, but find "things have changed" some. I didn't think I would ever use this "six stuff" again, so left it outside. First pics are of the 170 six transmission (2) and the six torque converter (1). The last are of the two different c-4's.

 

[chad]

my thought is they can all B "brought back" just like the rigs they go in...
The longer left 'out there' the more time'n expense to "bring back"~

 

[bubba22349]

I was into this stuff years ago, but lost interest, decided to try to now finish a couple projects, but find "things have changed" some. I didn't think I would ever use this "six stuff" again, so left it outside. First pics are of the 170 six transmission (2) and the six torque converter (1). The last are of the two different c-4's.

So the first 4 pictures are of the Case Fill type C4's these can all be fitted onto a Ford Small Block 144, 170, or 200 six with the right bell housing, flex plate, & torque convertor i.e. So all those parts in the first to third pictures are the right ones to use for any 1960 to 1981 144, 170, or 200 small six and some 1982 blocks if they are a high mount starter. If those transmissions were protected well enough so that a bunch of water didn't get inside they might be still be useable otherwise X2 with a overhaul kit and some labor to freshen them up would likely get them to working condistion. So that 170 Trans looks to be an early Duel range C4 (Green Dot) if you find the ID tag still on the servo cover you can find out more info. In any case that bell housing would bolt right up to the back of the 1979 block with just moving of the two blocks dowl pins and removing the Pilot Bushing in the center of the Crankshaft if the engine was used with a manual Trans before. The 5th picture is a SBF V8 Pan Fill C4 looks to be a late 1960's Trans for a 164 Tooth Bell housing & Flex Plate if you found the ID tag on the servo cover you can ID the year and the Ford Model car it's was built for. That Trans can not be used on a small six.

The last one looks to also be one of the V8 Pan Fill C4's with 164 Tooth Ring Gear Flex Plate these were used in bigger Cars, Pick up Trucks, and Vans. That Trans can't bolt up to the small block six'es 144 to 200's the only small Ford Six it will bolt right on is the 250 Small Six with the correct Zero Balance Flex Plate, it would also bolt right up to the bigger Ford sixes like a 240, 300, with that same Zero Balance 164 Tooth Flex plate (or the newer 4.9 EFI engines). Best of luck. Edited

 

[myrod1937]

1st two pics are of trans that was connected to the 170 engine, and the TC is still attached to the 170. The 3rd and 4th pics are of the same trans, which came out of a mid '70's Fairmont and was connected to a 302. I just remembered that I also have two more early auto trans, told that one came out of a eary Mercury Cyclone with a V/8, and the other, from a mercury with a six. Think they were called "blue dot".

 

[bubba22349]

That's what I though on the 170 Mustang C4 parts in the first three pictures they are good shots of those parts. Ok I sure missed seeing that detail in the 4th picture that it was the same Trans as in the 5th picture (I will correct that in my above post), in any case that Trans won't be useable for the any of the small six's (144, 170, or 200 engines there isn't a small patteren bell housing to fit the Pan Fill C4's . Sounds like the Green Dot Trans these will have a shift patteren like this "P, R, N, D1, D2, L this is the same as your above 170 Trans is and basically all 1964 to 1966 C4's are like this. In 1967 Ford changed the valve bodys to improve the shifts of the C4's there shift patteren was standardized to (P, R, N, D, 2, 1).

 

[78_200_C4]

The 79 200 has 2 oil dipstick tube locations. Plug the rear hole. You can buy a soft plug to plug it if you can get the tube out. Stick a long bolt in the tube then work it back and forth with a set of vice grips. Install a new dipstick 3/8" tube in forward hole. A 3/8" steel brake line from Autozone cut to the correct length will work.
Get the cable throttle bracket that bolts to the block along with the throttle cable and throttle pedal assemble if they are available.
Space the Ford throttle pedal mount an inch off the floor.
Change your exhaust to 2" pipe to fit the newer exhaust manifold outlet.
You can use the valve cover, damper, water pump and pulley, and alternator brackets off your old engine to make it look stock.

 

[chad]

... to make it look stock.

in some folk's eyes (not in others)
AND
to what? the '65 or the '79?
Its all a big Q for me as I have the bronk - they pull all sorta 24!+ like sell VIN plates, etc, etc.
There's all ways a tell or 2 so it just leaves more Qs in my mind abt the builder, seller, car - what is going on...
It all goes away w/a few sentences tho (daily, pic, sales, show). A touchy subject for me as seen~

 

[78_200_C4]

in some folk's eyes (not in others)
AND
to what? the '65 or the '79?
Its all a big Q for me as I have the bronk - they pull all sorta 24!+ like sell VIN plates, etc, etc.
There's all ways a tell or 2 so it just leaves more Qs in my mind abt the builder, seller, car - what is going on...
It all goes away w/a few sentences tho (daily, pic, sales, show). A touchy subject for me as seen~

"off your old engine to make it look stock." "It" being the 79 engine. If the owner wants to he could take parts from 65 engine to try to make the 79 engine look stock in an earlier Ford.
I am not interested in any "bronk" or any other info about what ever a bronk is.

 

[chad]

Kouwell - that MY experience (it sits to the left on this post)

 

[78_200_C4]

The subject is: "The 1965 200 CI 6 cyl is listed at 120 hp. I am thinking about replacing it with a 1979 200 CI,."
This is the 144-250 "small block" six performance" forum not a how to tell if a Bronco is stock forum. Keep on subject or do not reply to any of my posts.

 

[chad]

Thank you Sir. I will endeavor to remember that.
+
yur 'lack of interest' on the other... ✓

 

[myrod1937]

Hi Guys, I bought the engine, but it wasn’t what he said it was. Hope this is a good engine to strart with!

D8BE (6015-GE) He now told me it came out of a Ford Fairmont. Found the below article on the net.

Decoding Ford parts can be interesting to say the least. It's very possible that your engine could have been used in an airport baggage loading car, as well as many other platforms out there. Here's the breakdown starting with the engineering number on the block itself (C8DE-6015-B):

C8 = 1968
D = Falcon (model the part was developed & billed for)
E = Engine (design engineering office that created the part)

6015 = This is the actual part number for the block

B = This means it was the second block designed for a 1968 Falcon; not necessarily a revision, but the second block designed for that model line (as an example only, the first could have been a 170 CID or a 260 CID).


Now, all that being said, this does not mean the engine came out of a '68 Falcon. It just means the part was designed for a '68 Falcon, or more accurately that the design engineering office that was responsible for engines designed the block for the Falcon line, and billed it to that model line. Likewise, it was possible that engines designed for a different model line theoretically could have been used in a Falcon - it's fiscally sound for a manufacturer to use any part in as many different vehicle configurations as possible. If that wasn't confusing enough, here's a curve-ball for you - a part could have been designed for a different year than it was actually used in. In some cases, a 1968 part could have been used in 1967, or may not have been used until 1969. I could go a little deeper into the black-hole of Ford engineering numbers if you want, but didn't want this thread to be too long...let me know if you need me to clarify any of this or have any other questions...

 

[bubba22349]

The Design / Casting numbers D8BE-6015-GE decode as such.

D= This is the Decade of the part in this case the 1970's
8 = This is the year thats added to above decade so we get 1978
B = This is the Ford Car Model Line that this engine part was designed for this is indeed a Fairmont engine they were produced from 1978-83
E = is the Department that produced the part so Engine
6015 = The Parts Generic Part Code in this case an engine bare block.
GE = Yes this means that this part was redesigned many times over the years G = at least 7 times E= at least another 5 times.

From all this we would get that its at least a First year production 200 Six for a Ford Fairmont however you also need the blocks casting date code to know for sure this is a small casting that looks like its a metal tag in the block with a straight blade screw head on each end it will have two or three numbers and one letter in it. However just cause a part is design for one model car line doesn't always mean that its only used in that car model line exclusively in this case though there were only Fairmonts / and i think maybe a Mercury version of the Fairmont if it was really only a 1978 year model, in 1979 the new Fox Chassis Mustang's came out and they also used that engine in them for a few more years until 1982.

Yes this is a very good engine to start with, it's one of the best and it will only require a few parts being swapped over from your old Mustang engine onto it to work in your car. This is mostly the Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pick Up Tube, and front Motor Mounts, plus the Oil Dip Stick and Tube also need to be changed, and then it will be ready to bolt in. There are a few other differences too but they are all great up grades over what we're on your old 200 engine such as the much better large log head, a better carburetor, and the excellent DuraSpark II ignition system, to name a few. Congrats on a good score!

 

[chad]

now let's C what the displacement is (to confirm - as it seems a 3.3/200 ie Y/M/M but in 40 yrs can B anything ).
Tech archive above:

Classic Inlines

"the Handbook":

The Ford Falcon SIX Cylinder PERFORMANCE HANDBOOK | Vintage Inlines

The Ford Falcon SIX Cylinder Performance Handbook has 107 pages of History, Facts, and Information to help you get more power out of your small Ford SIX. This engine was used in Falcons, Mustangs, Fairlaines, and Comets in the 60’s. It was the FoMoCo workhorse in Mavericks, Granadas, and...

www.vintageinlines.com

(seem to B goin in circles on the last part, the links are to reduce # posts on final ID).

 

[myrod1937]

Well,,,,,,,,,,,"The Book" is on the way, but has not arrived yet. In the meantime, please tell me what I have. The head is: D78E 9430 CA, is this a good one or not. It is a 1978 engine & head. Better pic of bellhousing, with the fork and flywheel (had been and automatic) attached, but no clutch or pressure plate.