On the road... sort of

[electrorc]

An old trick used to find lagging cylenders is to measure the temperature of each exhast manifold outlet with an Infared temperature sensor or lacking that squirt a good quantity of water on each and see if one responds different outlet tube.

The dual outlet tube will be a little tricky but you still may see some difference from the others.

Good luck and let us know where you are with it.

Interesting; I may give that a try sometime. Thanks, and thanks for checking in as well

I decided to go ahead and swap to a 2 barrel. I picked up a 1.02" venturi Autolite 2100 and CI's adapter. The ignition is getting swapped to electronic, with a DS2 distributor and a Mopar ignition box. I'm still waiting on all of the parts to get here for that, but I'm hoping that between the two it'll take care of the surging and *hopefully* the idle as well...

Otherwise, the Mustang is currently up on jack stands. It needs an alignment, so I'm doing the Shelby drop. There's also a little more rust that I need to fix in the shock towers.

 

[78merKri6]

&Electrorc, I spent some time in& around Belton 68,69. Was stationed at the Air Base. Nice town. Since you're putting on a different carb and etc.,you may eliminate the seeming missfire. I've had some long and ongoing problems with my '65 1100. First--flooding {scale},then stalling {coil, vapor lock}, poor power, idle and light throttle issues, then vapor lock, then very hard starting much of the time. In the main/idle circuits there 2 very small passages hard to get to or even see. One has to remove a small cup plug, also drill into the well in alignment with a passage. Use fine wire and compressed air,reseal your holes with fishing sinkers and epoxy. After all this I discovered missmatched needle&seat! Wont' say how long this has gon on--I'm outdone, embarassed. Reason for sticking with autolite is to keep car original and don't want to pay 400+ for another. Needle&seat would swell and stick when hot. Perhaps none of these examples fit your situation. You could have a worn lobe on camshaft or a bad lobe on distriburor cam. Vacuum guage might tell. Last words---- good looking stang and in words of Winston Churchhill-"never give in,never give in, in matters great or small, never, never, never,never!! Gary.

 

[electrorc]

&Electrorc, I spent some time in& around Belton 68,69. Was stationed at the Air Base. Nice town. Since you're putting on a different carb and etc.,you may eliminate the seeming missfire. I've had some long and ongoing problems with my '65 1100. First--flooding {scale},then stalling {coil, vapor lock}, poor power, idle and light throttle issues, then vapor lock, then very hard starting much of the time. In the main/idle circuits there 2 very small passages hard to get to or even see. One has to remove a small cup plug, also drill into the well in alignment with a passage. Use fine wire and compressed air,reseal your holes with fishing sinkers and epoxy. After all this I discovered missmatched needle&seat! Wont' say how long this has gon on--I'm outdone, embarassed. Reason for sticking with autolite is to keep car original and don't want to pay 400+ for another. Needle&seat would swell and stick when hot. Perhaps none of these examples fit your situation. You could have a worn lobe on camshaft or a bad lobe on distriburor cam. Vacuum guage might tell. Last words---- good looking stang and in words of Winston Churchhill-"never give in,never give in, in matters great or small, never, never, never,never!! Gary.

Ah cool, don't run into too many people from Belton! It's changed a lot since then, especially in the past several years. The Air base is gone and it's gotten a lot bigger.

Interesting, I'm sure I missed those passages when I did both rebuilds on it. I definitely didn't do any drilling on it lol. If I use it again at some point, I'll try to remember about those and clean them well. Mismatched needle and seat? That seems easy to miss and not think of. But, it did it prior to my rebuild and then I replaced both the needle and seat when I rebuilt it. I will say there's a chance I damaged them when I adjusted the float a couple times without pulling it apart. Vacuum gauge seemed to be close to lots of problems, but mainly head issues...

Thanks for the compliment on the car.


For an update: I've basically gotten nowhere with it lately. I have electronic ignition installed--junkyard DS2 distributor (had a reman, didn't fit, sanded it a bit, then realized it must be bent or something) with a Mopar box. No idle change.

I have a 2 barrel carb on it... no idle change. Actually overall it's worse now. It's rather finicky with starting. It also won't run for more than a few minutes without dying, and that's when I'm lucky. Any fairly quick throttle changes kill it too. Carb came from Ebay, seller claimed it was recently rebuilt, and then I ended up rebuilding it again because it wasn't very clean looking inside (sadly, it's corrosion...). It's a 2100 with 1.02" venturis and I think #48 jets. Part number shows it's from a '58-'59 Fairlane with a 332. I played with the mixture screws a bit when I had it running, but either way it just seemed to shake more, just like with the 1100. I put one of the universal manual choke conversion kits on it, but there's nowhere to mount the bracket, so I'm just moving it at the carb for now. Just now I went out to go work on it some more and try tuning it again, and couldn't get it started. I'm not sure what's going on there. Sometimes it'll sound like it's about to start, but then doesn't.

I did get the Shelby drop finished, and I'll say that at least it looks better now.

 

[MPGmustang]

the 264 cam will run rougher than a stock cam, then add your 110* LC, and you'll be having a chop-ish ride.

I really think that your 2bbl carb that's from flea bay and your JY dsII is not helping you. ask faron (FSD) to rebuild your DSII, that you'll know it's working better than anyone else's. and your carb, I highly recomend taking the time to cean and tune it, settign the float is very imortant along wiht how to tune the carb.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68319
read and study this topic, alot of info, I honestly thing your engine is perfectly fine, it's just the tune that's off.

Idle will be 'rough' and the vacuum will be low, you can increase vacuum at bit at idle by making it more rich. that's normal. set to 900rpm, aim for 7-10 vacuum max, with timing at 10* static.

your autolite seems 'lean' with 48 jets, try giving the idle screw more GAS, it should like to be 'rich' . for the jets, I think you'll want around 51 size.

first just get it running, even if the idle is 1500rpm. disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the vacuum line, set timing to 10* secure ignition, then reconnect the vacuum advance canister to the manifold vacuum. timing and idle should go up, use the idle screw to lower idle and set to desired rpm by using the carb settings. make sure to final tune the carb after 30 min's of use, you mgiht have tor e-tune it after you get it back on the ground.

just take it slow, count turns, make notes on what everything does, it's best to be rich as lean hurts, rich just wastes gas.

 

[electrorc]

the 264 cam will run rougher than a stock cam, then add your 110* LC, and you'll be having a chop-ish ride.

I really think that your 2bbl carb that's from flea bay and your JY dsII is not helping you. ask faron (FSD) to rebuild your DSII, that you'll know it's working better than anyone else's. and your carb, I highly recomend taking the time to cean and tune it, settign the float is very imortant along wiht how to tune the carb.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68319
read and study this topic, alot of info, I honestly thing your engine is perfectly fine, it's just the tune that's off.

Idle will be 'rough' and the vacuum will be low, you can increase vacuum at bit at idle by making it more rich. that's normal. set to 900rpm, aim for 7-10 vacuum max, with timing at 10* static.

your autolite seems 'lean' with 48 jets, try giving the idle screw more GAS, it should like to be 'rich' . for the jets, I think you'll want around 51 size.

first just get it running, even if the idle is 1500rpm. disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the vacuum line, set timing to 10* secure ignition, then reconnect the vacuum advance canister to the manifold vacuum. timing and idle should go up, use the idle screw to lower idle and set to desired rpm by using the carb settings. make sure to final tune the carb after 30 min's of use, you mgiht have tor e-tune it after you get it back on the ground.

just take it slow, count turns, make notes on what everything does, it's best to be rich as lean hurts, rich just wastes gas.

Thanks MPG. I expected it to be a little rougher idle, though I definitely wouldn't have expected a cam not labeled as having a rough idle to pretty much shake the entire car. :/ If that's the way it's supposed to be then I'm okay with it, but I never noticed anybody else saying that it shook their car lol.

I know the junkyard dist isn't the best, but I was just trying to get something that'd work for now since the reman didn't.

As far as the carb, well, it looked pretty decent in the pictures and the seller said it was clean and worked well... but yeah. I did soak it for several hours and then did a full rebuild, but I couldn't get rid of all the corrosion that was on it. All of the passages *seem* to be clear though. The float is set at the spec for that year (29/64", and it's about as close as I can get it. I've run it on both the high side and low side of that spec now.).

Yep, I've been keeping an eye on that thread. I have no idea what power valve I have, as it wasn't labeled in the rebuild kit. Guessing it's probably too high for mine, so I'll need to check about screwing the mixture screws in.

48s are probably too lean? Dang. Since it was for a 332 I was hoping it'd be okay. I'll have to check it out once it's running better. At least it should be Holley jets on this one.

I did get it running again now. Increased the idle speed screw a bit and also backed out the idle mix screws another half turn each (so they're at 2 turns out now). The RPM was bouncing around a bit, but it's settled down more now that I tightened the carb a little more. I was able to have it stay running for awhile and was able to fully open the choke plate this time. I also got it idling down around 1200 rpm. Below that it just dies still, so definitely needs some more adjustment. Quick check: on the idle mix screws, is out richer or leaner? Seems like it was richer but I want to make sure. Edit: Ok checked the guide on CI's website, out is indeed richer.

Thanks for the help again!

Edit: Well so much for that... it sat for an hour or two and now it won't start again. I'll wait for it to cool off a little more.

 

[jimlj66]

" Any fairly quick throttle changes kill it too. "

I was having the exact problem with my 1100 carburetor. (I know, 1100 and 2100 are different, but I think the accelerator pump works the same) Make sure you are getting a squirt of fuel AS SOON as you start to move the throttle. If you aren’t getting an immediate squirt of fuel you will kill the engine before the main circuit can deliver enough fuel to keep it running. In my case I had to bend the linkage to the pump (shorten it). It made the car sooooo much easier to drive!

 

[69.5Mav]

Well so much for that... it sat for an hour or two and now it won't start again. I'll wait for it to cool off a little more.

Well this is a tough one. At this point I would suggest you get an AFR meter, there are some reasonable ones on Amozon. This should alow you to determin your actual Air to fuel ratio. 14.7 is a good number to shoot for though not correct under all conditions, leaner at cruze greater then 14.7, richer under full throttle less then 14.7. I think that you are to lean from some air leaking in or a bad carb.

Once you establish an idle AFR you can try different things to correct your AFR to the desired number.

Once you get your idle AFR correct you can work on off idle and full throttle.

One of the things I got good at was on two cylinder motor cycles when the carbs were out of sync I could tell just by lissening and could rev them up by ann ultra slow oppening of the throttles. Then i would resync the carbs and the bikes would run like new in stead of dieing on oppening the throttle. With the carbs out of sync when you oppened the throttle one would be oppen to wide and to much air would drop the vacuum below the point where gas woulg get pulled from the ventury leaning out the cylinder and the bike would die. I think something akin to this is happening to you, not exactly but similar.

 

[electrorc]

Figured out why it wouldn't restart. After having no luck basically all day yesterday, decided to check for spark... nothing. Looks like my new ignition box died. I know it was cheap, but I expected more than like 30 minutes of runtime on it lol. So I'm running on the old LOM distributor and points for right now.

I also discovered that once running, I can fully shut the front idle air mix screw, and partially close the back one. Now if that's perfectly relevant to the power valve or not, I'm not sure--that was at around 1200 rpm. I'm also thinking I may need a spacer.

" Any fairly quick throttle changes kill it too. "

I was having the exact problem with my 1100 carburetor. (I know, 1100 and 2100 are different, but I think the accelerator pump works the same) Make sure you are getting a squirt of fuel AS SOON as you start to move the throttle. If you aren’t getting an immediate squirt of fuel you will kill the engine before the main circuit can deliver enough fuel to keep it running. In my case I had to bend the linkage to the pump (shorten it). It made the car sooooo much easier to drive!

Thanks. The accelerator pump does work, but looks like it could stand to be adjusted. There's a gap between the pump arm and the rod part of the diaphragm, so it doesn't squirt immediately.

Well this is a tough one. At this point I would suggest you get an AFR meter, there are some reasonable ones on Amozon. This should alow you to determin your actual Air to fuel ratio. 14.7 is a good number to shoot for though not correct under all conditions, leaner at cruze greater then 14.7, richer under full throttle less then 14.7. I think that you are to lean from some air leaking in or a bad carb.

Once you establish an idle AFR you can try different things to correct your AFR to the desired number.

Once you get your idle AFR correct you can work on off idle and full throttle.

One of the things I got good at was on two cylinder motor cycles when the carbs were out of sync I could tell just by lissening and could rev them up by ann ultra slow oppening of the throttles. Then i would resync the carbs and the bikes would run like new in stead of dieing on oppening the throttle. With the carbs out of sync when you oppened the throttle one would be oppen to wide and to much air would drop the vacuum below the point where gas woulg get pulled from the ventury leaning out the cylinder and the bike would die. I think something akin to this is happening to you, not exactly but similar.

Thanks Mav. I've been thinking about getting an O2 sensor since I'm still learning on reading the plugs and everything. A wideband is mostly out of my budget right now, but a narrow-band would at least give some indication and is very affordable.

 

[69.5Mav]

I can fully shut the front idle air mix screw, and partially close the back one. that was at around 1200 rpm.

At 1200 the idle cicuet is just a small part of the AFR.

I would find a way to block off the power valve to eliminate it from the equation.

Wide band AFR gages are around $150 on amazon.

 

[electrorc]

Figured I'd give an update to this since it's been awhile.

The 2100 really doesn't like me. I installed a narrow-band O2 sensor so that I could at least figure out the general direction. It's really lean. I have to keep it almost fully choked, which puts it somewhere on the rich side (~800-900 mV). If I open the choke flap anymore, it goes lean really quickly--with an O2 output around 50 mV. Keep opening the choke and of course it dies. That's with a non-marked rebuild kit power valve or with a power valve block off. I've rebuilt it a few times now and used several different things to clean it. Same results every time. I have a feeling something must be wrong inside, but I'm not totally sure without another one to mess with. I never found any vacuum leaks anywhere with it.

I finally got the 1100 running a little nicer. Turns out I had the idle mix screw out too far and so I was too rich. I spent some time with it today with a vacuum gauge and monitoring the O2 sensor. I'm still running a little rich at idle, but it's definitely better than it was. I'm pulling around 14-15" Hg of vacuum now with a little needle shake, idling around 1000 rpm still. Can probably lower it a little and lean it out a bit more. The exhaust sounds and smells better, and the car doesn't shake much at idle anymore. I actually checked to make sure it was still running at a stop sign after I made the adjustments lol. Where it would be really jerky in 3rd gear below 30 mph and off the gas is smooth now too.

So now my main engine problem is this vibration I get that's really bad on the highway but also sort of noticeable even just revving in neutral with the clutch in. Maybe I'll do another thread for that sometime, heh.

Oh, and I'm past 1000 miles on it. Thanks for all the help everyone

 

[nickstewartroc]

Any update on your Mustang?
btw, check your venturi's in your carbs. I had similar idle issues with mine, and found the venturi cluster was dripping on one side while idling!

-Nick

 

[electrorc]

Any update on your Mustang?
btw, check your venturi's in your carbs. I had similar idle issues with mine, and found the venturi cluster was dripping on one side while idling!

-Nick

Nope, not really. I've just been driving it with the 1bbl, haven't really made any other changes or tried to figure the vibration out more yet.

When I had the 2100 on, the cluster did drip at idle at first. That went away though--I think after the first rebuild I did on it.