Tuning possibilities/Going Lean

Engine Fan

Well-known member
One of the many emission charts on line.
From this chart it appears hydrocarbons emissions drop till approximately 17:1 air fuel ratio. Leaner ratios start to misfire.
NOx emissions(a good indicator of combustion temperature) appear to peak around 15.7:1.
NOx emissions appear to be roughly equal to the stoich reading at a leaner 16.5:1 AFR
To run lean(light load) on one of our sixes would require consistent mixture to each cylinder. At least twin carb or throttle body but more likely carb per cylinder or port fuel injection.
Going to go out on a limb and say the leaner mixture with further space fuel particles would burn slower.
Throttle would be open further to maintain the same power creating less pumping loss.


Open to your thoughts, corrections, constructive criticism, additions etc.
 

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As any technical background is already involved, and to avoid going down too many fun but deep rabbit holes, I'll just respond with my experience to each item in-turn.
From this chart it appears hydrocarbons emissions drop till approximately 17:1 air fuel ratio. Leaner ratios start to misfire.
Yes, HCs drop, but where it begins to misfire (partial burn) depends on the specific test engine and conditions. One reason ignition systems such as GM's HEI and Fords high energy DuraSpark-I (not II) were developed going on 50 years ago was to allow full combustion with leaner mixtures. Same for chamber shapes and piston dishes, etc. Lean misfire is not a hard miss, but a sagging of power due to partial combustion.
NOx emissions(a good indicator of combustion temperature) appear to peak around 15.7:1.
NOx emissions appear to be roughly equal to the stoich reading at a leaner 16.5:1 AFR
Emissions tuning is a real balancing act, and the targets for each gas change regularly, depending on politics of what is most evil that day. NOx results from both temperatures and recombinations. It is not a good indicator of temperatures, though there is some loose relationship. NOx was originally picked as a catalytic converter target, and part of why 14.7:1 became a household number. That was ages ago. Also the motto "rich and retarded" for emissions tuning, practiced since the '50s to reduce the sharp tailpipe odor emissions.

In real-world tuning (except early cat emissions), Lambda 1.0 / AFR 14.7 (gasoline) is rarely if ever used, as the hottest combustion that is neither powerful nor economical. Combustion heat is cooler when either richer or leaner than stoich area, as witnessed by any pilot, that sets mixture to rich of peak EGT for power, and lean of peak EGT for economy. Do not confuse this with peak burn speed, which is found at peak torque fueling.
To run lean(light load) on one of our sixes would require consistent mixture to each cylinder. At least twin carb or throttle body but more likely carb per cylinder or port fuel injection.
Fuel distribution is never perfect, even with MPFI, as injector and port air-flows rarely match, and are typically off by surprising percentages. Better is better, and the better distribution is, the more you can get out of the engine as the engine is only a strong as its weakest cylinder. Every engine has one. So, we tune to that weakest cylinder (it's easy to find, or just work-around), and the rest will be just fine.

Not to rabbit-hole here, but that is one reason the hot exhaust under the log intake is a lesser of two evils benefit, to vaporize fuel better for more even distribution.
Going to go out on a limb and say the leaner mixture with further space fuel particles would burn slower.
Absolutely, and similar effects from other factors, such as throttling, VE, higher temperatures, altitude, humidity, etc. Each juggles with the rest and others for the correct ignition timing to reach peak cylinder pressure (PCP) at exactly the right crank angle ATDC. That optimal PCP angle is where we convert fuel to energy at maximum efficiency, and the goal of ignition timing. From the AOPA on lean mixture ignition timing:
AOPA - Savvy Maintenance said:
A lean mixture results in a slower combustion event that takes more time to complete; the leaner the mixture, the more time it takes. To accommodate this slower combustion, the engine needs more time from ignition to exhaust valve opening. Modern full authority digital engine control (FADEC) systems provide this additional time by advancing the ignition timing during lean-of-peak cruise.

Throttle would be open further to maintain the same power creating less pumping loss.
I'd say you are well ahead of most in this department. Yes, that is part of the magic ticket to economy. Sucking air through a straw takes a lot of power - pumping losses. The Catch 22 is that it takes x-amount of energy to go from A to B, and the only way to reduce fuel consumption is to increase efficiency. Leaning the mixture only helps a little with the pumping losses, but also creates new problems, late PCP (reduced efficiency) and late heat. The gold nugget is lean to reduce pumping losses, and correcting ignition timing to regain the efficiency of that perfect PCP, also found as minimum manifold pressure and MBT (Minimum Best Torque timing). Oh, and you avoid the "lean is hot!" issues. :cool:

How does that line-up with your thinking?
 
Where did PSIG's response go? Was reading it this morning before work and didn't get a chance to finish.
 
I did not delete anything. I spent my time to relay information, principles and concepts from my professional experience, that may be useful to others as a "pay it forward" as I enter retirement. I like to help people, especially with technical topics. Sad, does not quite capture it for me.

I'm not quite sure what to do if my informational and verifiable posts are deleted for unknown reasons. No Admin or Moderator has contacted me with cause, advice, guidance or admonishment, and more of my posts have been deleted in other threads. I don't know how to post without risk, if I don't know why they were deleted. I will not drag others into this by asking for advice. Thanks to those that were interested in advanced tuning principles and techniques. (y)
 
As any technical background is already involved, and to avoid going down too many fun but deep rabbit holes, I'll just respond with my experience to each item in-turn.

Yes, HCs drop, but where it begins to misfire (partial burn) depends on the specific test engine and conditions. One reason ignition systems such as GM's HEI and Fords high energy DuraSpark-I (not II) were developed going on 50 years ago was to allow full combustion with leaner mixtures. Same for chamber shapes and piston dishes, etc. Lean misfire is not a hard miss, but a sagging of power due to partial combustion.

Emissions tuning is a real balancing act, and the targets for each gas change regularly, depending on politics of what is most evil that day. NOx results from both temperatures and recombinations. It is not a good indicator of temperatures, though there is some loose relationship. NOx was originally picked as a catalytic converter target, and part of why 14.7:1 became a household number. That was ages ago. Also the motto "rich and retarded" for emissions tuning, practiced since the '50s to reduce the sharp tailpipe odor emissions.

In real-world tuning (except early cat emissions), Lambda 1.0 / AFR 14.7 (gasoline) is rarely if ever used, as the hottest combustion that is neither powerful nor economical. Combustion heat is cooler when either richer or leaner than stoich area, as witnessed by any pilot, that sets mixture to rich of peak EGT for power, and lean of peak EGT for economy. Do not confuse this with peak burn speed, which is found at peak torque fueling.

Fuel distribution is never perfect, even with MPFI, as injector and port air-flows rarely match, and are typically off by surprising percentages. Better is better, and the better distribution is, the more you can get out of the engine as the engine is only a strong as its weakest cylinder. Every engine has one. So, we tune to that weakest cylinder (it's easy to find, or just work-around), and the rest will be just fine.

Not to rabbit-hole here, but that is one reason the hot exhaust under the log intake is a lesser of two evils benefit, to vaporize fuel better for more even distribution.

Absolutely, and similar effects from other factors, such as throttling, VE, higher temperatures, altitude, humidity, etc. Each juggles with the rest and others for the correct ignition timing to reach peak cylinder pressure (PCP) at exactly the right crank angle ATDC. That optimal PCP angle is where we convert fuel to energy at maximum efficiency, and the goal of ignition timing. From the AOPA on lean mixture ignition timing:



I'd say you are well ahead of most in this department. Yes, that is part of the magic ticket to economy. Sucking air through a straw takes a lot of power - pumping losses. The Catch 22 is that it takes x-amount of energy to go from A to B, and the only way to reduce fuel consumption is to increase efficiency. Leaning the mixture only helps a little with the pumping losses, but also creates new problems, late PCP (reduced efficiency) and late heat. The gold nugget is lean to reduce pumping losses, and correcting ignition timing to regain the efficiency of that perfect PCP, also found as minimum manifold pressure and MBT (Minimum Best Torque timing). Oh, and you avoid the "lean is hot!" issues. :cool:

How does that line-up with your thinking?,
I had always thought that leaner was hot. Probably because you see fuel ratios richened for power, especially forced induction to keep combustion exposed parts from melting. However its the extra fuel being used to cool things down. As soon as I think of gaseous fueled engines, it makes sense as there is no cooling running rich, in fact past stoich(in the lean direction), gaseous fueled engines run cooler.
Surely I've over simplified, and certainly appreciate your explanations. Just when you think you've it figured out....
 
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I will participate on this thread's train of dots, and do my part to help connect them while I wait for Admin solutions to posting issues.
I had always thought that leaner was hot. Probably because you see fuel ratios richened for power, especially forced induction to keep combustion exposed parts from melting.
Multiple points to consider here from the rich side. First, the purpose of "rich" and what it does, then the use of "rich" for certain applications. Power applications use optimal max-torque fueling for optimal power; not too rich and not too lean for peak torque. Just right. Note the reference to "rich" is relative to best power AFRs, not stoichiometric as referenced in the first post to emissions. ;) When you say "it's running a bit rich", you are referring to rich of your best tuning, not rich of stoich, right? So, "rich" is relative to peak power in this discussion.

Peak power Lambdas/AFRs are certainly 'hot' from the standpoint that the engine is doing maximum work and total heat production is high, so your cooling system better be good so it doesn't over-heat; but the combustion is not relatively hot, and is burning at the optimal AFR to convert fuel to energy. Important relationships and terms. All good.

Power does not melt parts at optimal fueling and timing, as temperatures are right where they should be, NA or power-adder. We can see evidence of this on our spark plugs. We are assuming at this point the fuel octane is sufficient and ignition timing correct, so they are not factors involved in AFRs at this point. There is no reason to run rich of optimal power AFRs if all is good. End of story. :cool: Ah, but octane and timing do come into play, especially if insufficient or incorrect. Here is where AFR manipulation comes into play, often incorrectly.

Detonation is caused by heat. Period. Many sources of cumulative heat, from compression heat to intake heat, coolant heat, spark plug and exhaust valve heat, and so on. Some confusion results from comments to always run rich or timing retarded in order to delay combustion and resulting peak cylinder pressure point (crank angle), typically to avoid detonation. Delayed PCP means late burn = lower pressure = reduced tendency to det on low octane.

Again, correct PCP is required for max efficiency, which translates to power, or economy, emissions, etc - in this case power. If timing is correct, and fuel is correct, but octane is low and detonation is detected, one option is to slow the burn by adding more fuel. Peak-torque fueling is fastest burn, while richer or leaner are slower. Delaying PCP adds late-heat, but is somewhat offset by added excess over-rich cooling fuel. A band aid and inefficient de-tune, and it works sometimes in a pinch when you can't get better fuel - but there are downsides.

Conversely, with low octane and potential for detonation; we could delay the burn by retarding timing, to again delay and lower PCP for a similar de-tuning effect. What is not good is adding these delays if you don't need them, as you just reduce power and add late-heat, and the problem returns with a vengeance on long pulls as that added late-heat accumulates. Unfortunately, juggling fuel and timing to get past issues tends to result in chasing one's tail, more retard needs more fuel, but eventually needs more retard... vicious cycle. Of course, we could also de-tune by reducing throttle for the same effect, but it's against our nature to do that. šŸ˜

Note in all these cases the burn rate will change with AFR, a little or a lot, which means ignition timing that was correct is now not correct. Richer or retarded is often claimed to be "safe". It is not. Correct, where the engine is happiest, is safest. Especially timing, retarded means lower efficiency, reduced power or economy, and added heat. Fuel and spark are a team, so when you change fueling, you change timing.
However its the extra fuel being used to cool things down.
Yes, rich from best power. It reduces performance as a de-tune, but helps the immediate issue of detonation, which does melt parts. Literally. As it heats and melts stuff by blasting-off the boundary layer of insulating air clinging to the parts, the accumulated heat can also ignite the incoming fuel before the spark occurs, called pre-ignition. Even more destructive than detonation, and can destroy the engine in one stroke. As a diagnostic in engine failure analysis, a "holed" piston is one softened by detonation, but then blown-through by the extreme pressure of pre-ignition on the up-stroke. Bent rods and lifted heads are yet other signs of pre-ig. While all of these comments are related to rich and lean, they are focused on the why's of rich, but also how they are different than lean.

Knowing all that, what about "lean"? How about adding timing to stop detonation? :oops: Yes, following the above principles, I have had that situation, and it highlights using the correct timing found by tuning, not advanced or retarded by suggestion or guessing. In this case, I was diagnosing an engine that would cruise fine, but then began to creep into detonation after a bit. The short story is that vacuum advance was not sufficient at lean cruise, the late-heat of the effective retard heated the spark plug and exhaust valve, and it accumulated enough heat to initiate detonation increasing with time. Solution? Add timing to correct timing, increasing efficiency and economy, reducing late-heat, and solving the detonation issue completely.

Moral of the story is to build the engine to use the chosen fuel, or use fuel with sufficient octane for the engine build. Else, there are workarounds, but never as-effective or reliable as using the right stuff, tuned for best values. How best fueling and best timing are found in tuning might be a good next-step. Hope that helps.
 
With non ethanol fuel, WOT should be in the 12.8-13.1, Cruising 14.6-14.9, cruising at low speed where you are running mostly on the idle orifice, 13.2-13.5. 90% of carburetors are way rich on the idle orifice.
With pump ethanol bring WOT down to 12.2-12.5, cruise 14.3-14.5 area.
Since ethanol varies in pump fuel those #'s could vary.
The curving of your distributor need to be performed by someone with experience on the engine you are running.
I use a Sun Distributor Tester to check what i want.
More power to you.WSA_0460.jpg
 
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I will participate on this thread's train of dots, and do my part to help connect them while I wait for Admin solutions to posting issues.

Multiple points to consider here from the rich side. First, the purpose of "rich" and what it does, then the use of "rich" for certain applications. Power applications use optimal max-torque fueling for optimal power; not too rich and not too lean for peak torque. Just right. Note the reference to "rich" is relative to best power AFRs, not stoichiometric as referenced in the first post to emissions. ;) When you say "it's running a bit rich", you are referring to rich of your best tuning, not rich of stoich, right? So, "rich" is relative to peak power in this discussion.

Peak power Lambdas/AFRs are certainly 'hot' from the standpoint that the engine is doing maximum work and total heat production is high, so your cooling system better be good so it doesn't over-heat; but the combustion is not relatively hot, and is burning at the optimal AFR to convert fuel to energy. Important relationships and terms. All good.

Power does not melt parts at optimal fueling and timing, as temperatures are right where they should be, NA or power-adder. We can see evidence of this on our spark plugs. We are assuming at this point the fuel octane is sufficient and ignition timing correct, so they are not factors involved in AFRs at this point. There is no reason to run rich of optimal power AFRs if all is good. End of story. :cool: Ah, but octane and timing do come into play, especially if insufficient or incorrect. Here is where AFR manipulation comes into play, often incorrectly.

Detonation is caused by heat. Period. Many sources of cumulative heat, from compression heat to intake heat, coolant heat, spark plug and exhaust valve heat, and so on. Some confusion results from comments to always run rich or timing retarded in order to delay combustion and resulting peak cylinder pressure point (crank angle), typically to avoid detonation. Delayed PCP means late burn = lower pressure = reduced tendency to det on low octane.

Again, correct PCP is required for max efficiency, which translates to power, or economy, emissions, etc - in this case power. If timing is correct, and fuel is correct, but octane is low and detonation is detected, one option is to slow the burn by adding more fuel. Peak-torque fueling is fastest burn, while richer or leaner are slower. Delaying PCP adds late-heat, but is somewhat offset by added excess over-rich cooling fuel. A band aid and inefficient de-tune, and it works sometimes in a pinch when you can't get better fuel - but there are downsides.

Conversely, with low octane and potential for detonation; we could delay the burn by retarding timing, to again delay and lower PCP for a similar de-tuning effect. What is not good is adding these delays if you don't need them, as you just reduce power and add late-heat, and the problem returns with a vengeance on long pulls as that added late-heat accumulates. Unfortunately, juggling fuel and timing to get past issues tends to result in chasing one's tail, more retard needs more fuel, but eventually needs more retard... vicious cycle. Of course, we could also de-tune by reducing throttle for the same effect, but it's against our nature to do that. šŸ˜

Note in all these cases the burn rate will change with AFR, a little or a lot, which means ignition timing that was correct is now not correct. Richer or retarded is often claimed to be "safe". It is not. Correct, where the engine is happiest, is safest. Especially timing, retarded means lower efficiency, reduced power or economy, and added heat. Fuel and spark are a team, so when you change fueling, you change timing.

Yes, rich from best power. It reduces performance as a de-tune, but helps the immediate issue of detonation, which does melt parts. Literally. As it heats and melts stuff by blasting-off the boundary layer of insulating air clinging to the parts, the accumulated heat can also ignite the incoming fuel before the spark occurs, called pre-ignition. Even more destructive than detonation, and can destroy the engine in one stroke. As a diagnostic in engine failure analysis, a "holed" piston is one softened by detonation, but then blown-through by the extreme pressure of pre-ignition on the up-stroke. Bent rods and lifted heads are yet other signs of pre-ig. While all of these comments are related to rich and lean, they are focused on the why's of rich, but also how they are different than lean.

Knowing all that, what about "lean"? How about adding timing to stop detonation? :oops: Yes, following the above principles, I have had that situation, and it highlights using the correct timing found by tuning, not advanced or retarded by suggestion or guessing. In this case, I was diagnosing an engine that would cruise fine, but then began to creep into detonation after a bit. The short story is that vacuum advance was not sufficient at lean cruise, the late-heat of the effective retard heated the spark plug and exhaust valve, and it accumulated enough heat to initiate detonation increasing with time. Solution? Add timing to correct timing, increasing efficiency and economy, reducing late-heat, and solving the detonation issue completely.

Moral of the story is to build the engine to use the chosen fuel, or use fuel with sufficient octane for the engine build. Else, there are workarounds, but never as-effective or reliable as using the right stuff, tuned for best values. How best fueling and best timing are found in tuning might be a good next-step. Hope that helps.
What you are saying breaks it down to what's actually going on under varying conditions in the combustion chamber. Definitely some good information to have in the tuning tool box. Now I just have to read through it again to absorb. Hmmm, feels like being in school again.
 
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