water injection

[Anonymous]

Water/Alcohol mix would fix the freezin proablem.
TeeJet sells agricultural misters for greenhouses to keep humidity up in the winter.
There are also misters for livestock buildings for the same reason.

 

[StrangeRanger]

FWIW I would find the water injection system viable on a racecar where you could be sure the reservoir was properly maintained at all times. On a street car, I would not want to have to rely upon it. Way too easy to screw up and ruin the engine. Perhaps a blowoff valve for the street that could be blocked at the strip combined with a wastegate running at a higher pressure would be an answer. Run at the blowoff pressure without water injection on the street and at the wastegate pressure with water on the strip. Of course then if you forget to open the valve....

 

[MustangSix]

I've gotten kind of lazy in my old age. Filling a one gallon water tank every day is too much effort. OTOH, if you could fill a five gallon tank everytime you fill the gas tank, that would be an acceptable level of maintenance. I guess how much water you use would be a function of how much boost you use. I'd need a big tank.

One other problem in this humid environment is mildew and other living organisms. Any tank that holds just water without some sort of anti-fungal/bacterial/algaecidal stuff will end up pretty nasty. a splash of bleach every now and then might be in order.

 

[Anonymous]

Here's someone who's figured out a practical way to add water under high vacuum as a means to lean out cruise mix for better mileage:
http://website.lineone.net/~da.cushman/ ... nject.html

 

[xctasy]

(Hello. It's not me talking. I promised not to butt in, but I was always unable too keep my trap shut....


Ignore water or anti-detonation injection at your own loss. If people have a lens scratch which tells them it is intuitively a bad idea, let them go there own way.

A tiny spike of Ethyl methyel ketone (1%) or centrimide, and use either 50% ethonal or methonal (must be denurtured), 48% water, and 1% acetone. Been done to death since 1983 on dyno engines and on street engines which have been designed for race fuel. In all kinds of conditions.

I believe that an anti-detonation injection system should be set up with the same care as an EFI system.

The issue is people aren't looking at setting up a stage potentiometer or gage, or warning lights or good procedures.)

 

[Anonymous]

Then what we really need is a electronic fuel injector type system for water.

 

[Anonymous]

[No message]

 

[broncr]

Exactly what I was thinking as I read Bell's defamations... "unreliable" - ? Only as unreliable as the design/monitoring.

broncr

 

[StrangeRanger]

it seems to me that the more complicated the recipe for the anti-detonant (it's no longer 'water") the less practical it becomes

 

[Anonymous]

After carefully reading Ricardo's sections on the use of water as an anti-detonate several times, it became clear to me that I needed to rebuild my "fluids capacity" to reflect a 60/40 ratio of fuel to water. And that every time I topped up the fuel tank I would also need to stop by the garden hose for a top up with water.

For the ultimate in fuel economy and turbo boost, it may be needed, though. In any case, it surely would make an interesting experiment.

What say you, X?

 

[xctasy]

In 1996, the New Zealand Government made some very bad descisions regarding the replacement of hi lead 97 octane gasoline with an aromatic unleaded 96 octane gasoline which had an illegal 56% aromatics hydrocarbon content. It was to be no more than 45%. In the US, the petrochemical company would be sued. Over here, the Government authorised no testing and thus became responsible for absolute mayhem. Engines such as lawn mowers, chainsaws, and some old engines blew up and poor quality carb parts became softened ( SU carb and Weber carb parts espiecially). The benzene content was over 5%, and Cortinas and Austins, already prone to going on fire, stated leaking fuel, and there was a speight of under hood fires.

At this stage, everyone was talking about the disaster, and they couldn't off load there old carby engined clunkers for love nor money. This caused the V8 mob to have severe issues with running the new unleaded 96 octane. Most got VP Plus racing fuel, and spiked it, others used conventional 105 octane avagas, still others decided to run Flash lube, Moreys or ditch there engine for a post 1986 EFI Commodore six or Falcon. It was a disaster.

What I've personally saw at that time was a mate with a stock hi-compression Cortina that had the nasty, detonation prone 9.2:1 compression (Pinto) SOHC 2000 engine that won't run well on high lead 97 ( your 91) octane without detonating. The he added H20 injection, and it ran armoatically inferior 91 octane (your 87) with ease. Saving in 1996 amounted to about 10% per tank of fuel. This happened just by adding water form one source, an original Ford washer bottle, running off an adjustable pressure potentiometer in the manifold. When vacum dropped, the water came in, just like a power valve. Easy.

There was a slight hi rpm performance loss, but no audiable knocking.

At that time, I went to Liquid propane on a car with very high compression (9.7:1 on the rebuilt engine), and since it was 105 octane from the pump, I've never had to run water injection.

I have read every book I can on fuels. I'm comfortable that water injection alone is a power looser, but if the compression is too high, then it is the only option.

When you add a 115 octane alchohol base fuel like methonol, then you gain peformance. If it was good enough for planes in the late 30's and early 40's on the grade of gasoline they had to use then, then I'm all for it.

I've been unduly inflienced by Mr Vizard on this area. He has used it with total sucess. I haven't, but can rationalise why I would. I agree with what SR said, though. Too many systems, too many problems. The best option is to have some discipline, and design your engine around it. On a high pressure turbo, it is a natural.

If I ever run petrol (gasoline) again on any of my engines, it will be a high compression engine and will have water injection at the least.

 

[FastRonald]

8) We may upgrade to using an after market washer bottle and pump with a momentary on switch. This would start as the throttle linkage hits half or full open position. We'll continue to use washer fluid do to the alcohol content.

 

[Anonymous]

Some aircraft have used water injection for years especially cargo planes, it was uaually used on takeoff when engine heating problems were usually greatest. but they have greater control (and training) over the engine, usually they run them richer for take off and apparently some of them could also increase the advance for takeoff, this with the engine heat generated taxiing with less than optimal air flow tended to make the engine hot and prone to detonation when power was applied, so they would inject water when power was applied and it would cool the charge, prevent detonation and increase takeoff power.
Some setups both aviation and racing have used alcohol injected up further in the intake or in front of the intercoolers especially in hot wheather to cool the intake charge more, sometimes in conjuction with water. I played around with water and alcohol injection on my old 2.3 ford for fun (an edelbrock unit) and it really did work I could bump up my advance a little and run it without it rattling but in the end I got tired of having to get purified water and alcohol for it as the hard tap water clogged the nozzles and just messing with it in general, so I set the timing back a little and enriched the mix a little and let it go. I'm sure on a turbo high performance system it would be great.
I only ran straight denatured alchol once to see what would happen, it worked great but I wasn't comfortable running around on a 115 degree day with a half gallon of denatured under the hood. I hate having to pull over to put out my truck.

 

[Anonymous]

8) We may upgrade to using an after market washer bottle and pump with a momentary on switch. This would start as the throttle linkage hits half or full open position. We'll continue to use washer fluid do to the alcohol content.

that was the point of the cam and micro switch in the above aticle, theres a micro switch on the carb so as you hit say 35 percent throttle the water is injected.

cheers.joe.

 

[FastRonald]

8) With the snow and all in the Chicago area I'd be concerned a microswitch may not last so long. So I'll use a momentary on switch that can be enclosed quickly. It's snowing like mad today, forecast is for six to eight inches of snow.

 

[Anonymous]

All this makes me wonder why my gas mileage goes UP a little when I use water injection (during the summer, anyway). I don't notice any power change, except that when I climb the long mountain hills it doesn't lose as much power at high altitudes. Not a lot of difference, just a couple or 3 miles per hour of speed is noticeable - better with the water.

It idles better, too, with the water, after a long, hard pull.

Any ideas why? Too much spark advance, maybe? It never pings, though.

:

 

[Anonymous]

Just a FYI...

My reservoir holds 1 gallon of water and I usually have to fill it up every other full tank of gas (400-450 miles).

Later,

Doug

 

[xctasy]

He he he. 'My Mustang does 450 mpg of water!'


A big 350 V8, turboed with water injection can go through 1.4 gallons in three hours of illegal drag racing and burnouts. Something like 30 mpg of water. Just don't ask me how I know....

There are rates I can compute. The discharge is proportional to need. A turbo needs it, a 351 NA engine with 10.5:1 on 87 would need about twice as much as a 200 six. The Old F85 Turbo could do 8000 mpg on RocketFuel, I've heard tell.

 

[Anonymous]

are there bolt on WI kits for the 200?.........or do i have to not be lazy and make one........also........why cant u use a system that activates the water at a certain RPM.........like the shift lights do

 

[Anonymous]

are there bolt on WI kits for the 200?

No, sorry.

or do i have to not be lazy and make one

Yes, sorry.

why cant u use a system that activates the water at a certain RPM.........like the shift lights do

Because the engine needs the water as the BOOST rises...not as the RPM rises.