223 Oil after a re-build

[LeonBlank]

I was running conventional 10w-40 in my stock 1963 223. After a summer of burning oil I pulled it and getting a complete machine shop re-build. All surfaces machined new pistons, rocker shaft/rockers machined etc. I am thinking that I should be running conventional 10w30 after this re-fresh. I know you can ask 100 people and get 100 oil opinions. Most people stay away from synthetic in the older stuff.

What are some of you guys using in your 223's?

This is in a '63 F100 that does not high rev, go over 55mph and only hauls my girls to get ice cream.

Thanks guys!

 

[manglass]

Did your machine shop provide any recommendations? If so, you would do well to follow them as they will be handling the warranty if there is a problem.

If not, and assuming this is a stock engine, my experience has been that the oil you are running now should be fine for break-in too. If you have done anything with the camshaft (as in reground, replaced, esp. high lift) you might want to consider something with extra ZDDP to start. There are plenty of break-in oils just for this. If you have high pressure valve springs, you might want to install stock springs until the cam is broken in. My procedure used to be to change the oil after cam break-in, then again after 1000 miles.

FWIW, I run 30W in my 223. but my engine is worn and the single grade oil helps out with oil pressure. They were originally designed to run on this anyway but for a brand new variant, multi-viscosity is a better choice.

Lou Manglass

 

[LeonBlank]

Did your machine shop provide any recommendations? If so, you would do well to follow them as they will be handling the warranty if there is a problem.

If not, and assuming this is a stock engine, my experience has been that the oil you are running now should be fine for break-in too. If you have done anything with the camshaft (as in reground, replaced, esp. high lift) you might want to consider something with extra ZDDP to start. There are plenty of break-in oils just for this. If you have high pressure valve springs, you might want to install stock springs until the cam is broken in. My procedure used to be to change the oil after cam break-in, then again after 1000 miles.

FWIW, I run 30W in my 223. but my engine is worn and the single grade oil helps out with oil pressure. They were originally designed to run on this anyway but for a brand new variant, multi-viscosity is a better choice.

Lou Manglass

I am pretty sure the cam was in good shape and did not get re-ground. Nothing high performance put in for parts. I was going to to do a gentle break in and change oil after a few days of actual driving and then again at 1,000 miles. Unless they state different...I will probably stick with the 30w once its all worked in.

Thank you!

 

[bubba22349]

They used to say that you should wait to switch over to the Synthetic Oils until after you had about 15,000 miles on a fresh engine after the rings had sealed / seated that was way back when the Synthetics first came out. I don't know what they recommend now days but I am sure those rules no longer are the norm, but using the conventional oils with 1 quart of Synthetic (or the Blended Oils that we have now) will give you 90 % of the benefits of full Synthetic's. So far I have also ran the straight grade Oils in my Older engines I am going to try the Multi Grades soon in my next engine build though.

 

[manglass]

Just to clarify. When I said 30W, I meant 30W detergent. Please don't use non-detergent or you will recreate all the oiling problems these engines had in the 50's and 60's!!!

Lou

P.S. What Bubba mentioned about synthetic is absolutely correct. Most of the seals and gaskets are of different material now but if you should encounter any leaks just discontinue the synthetic and go back to conventional oil before you change any seals or gaskets.

 

[Luke64]

We run rotella t4 diesel oil in everything flat tappet. Has the most zinc and other goodies out of the oils out there. Still would benefit from an additive. They have 10-30 or 15-40 I think they might have straight 30 as well.

 

[Frank]

I am pretty sure the cam was in good shape and did not get re-ground. Nothing high performance put in for parts. I was going to to do a gentle break in and change oil after a few days of actual driving and then again at 1,000 miles. Unless they state different...I will probably stick with the 30w once its all worked in.

Thank you!

Andrew, don't baby it during break in. And don't idle or run at a constant rpm for more than 5 minutes at the time first 200 miles. Contrary to the old way of thinking, rings seat quicker with hard load applied during break in. Every 15 or 20 minutes of normal- normal driving, mash it to the floor and wind it up fairly high through second or third gear.
Oil recommendation: Valvoline Conventional Oil. Use a bottle of zink on the first 'round, and just the oil after that. Never had a cam failure on this oil.

 

[Frank]

PS- congrats on getting the overhaul! And staying with the original engine!

 

[LeonBlank]

Andrew, don't baby it during break in. And don't idle or run at a constant rpm for more than 5 minutes at the time first 200 miles. Contrary to the old way of thinking, rings seat quicker with hard load applied during break in. Every 15 or 20 minutes of normal- normal driving, mash it to the floor and wind it up fairly high through second or third gear.
Oil recommendation: Valvoline Conventional Oil. Use a bottle of zink on the first 'round, and just the oil after that. Never had a cam failure on this oil.

My plan was to use SAE 10w30 Quaker State Oil. Run it for a few min rev up to 1,500 for a few min. My drive to work is 10-15 min mostly flat roads but a few long hills and a few round-a-bouts. Drive it and get on it once and a while. Change oil after a week or so.

 

[LeonBlank]

PS- congrats on getting the overhaul! And staying with the original engine!

Thank you very much! The truck came with a "spare" 5.0 302 with an auto trans. If the PO was to keep the truck he was going to run the 302. I decided "I just cant do that" this truck is too perfect. 302 has been sold and no turning back now!

 

[Frank]

My plan was to use SAE 10w30 Quaker State Oil. Run it for a few min rev up to 1,500 for a few min. My drive to work is 10-15 min mostly flat roads but a few long hills and a few round-a-bouts. Drive it and get on it once and a while. Change oil after a week or so.

Maybe it's greatly improved, it's been 3 decades since seeing engine internals that had Q State, they were all completely gummed up. It is (used to be) paraffin based, and was the worst brand available. A few months ago, Sevensecondsuv wiped a cam during break-in after a VERY careful, detailed rebuild- using Q State oil. (See thread titled, "The Rolling Dumpster Gets A Rebuild").

 

[LeonBlank]

Maybe it's greatly improved, it's been 3 decades since seeing engine internals that had Q State, they were all completely gummed up. It is (used to be) paraffin based, and was the worst brand available. A few months ago, Sevensecondsuv wiped a cam during break-in after a VERY careful, detailed rebuild- using Q State oil. (See thread titled, "The Rolling Dumpster Gets A Rebuild").

Pretty much the only reason I am drawn to the Q stuff is as a child my dad baught a new 1989 f150 manual with a straight 6 and used QS and clocked over 300,000 miles with zero issue.

 

[Frank]

Pretty much the only reason I am drawn to the Q stuff is as a child my dad baught a new 1989 f150 manual with a straight 6 and used QS and clocked over 300,000 miles with zero issue.

I hear you Andrew! Engines are funny like that, every one has an oil preference. Have run many engines with high and very high mileage, and old ones run quieter, stay cleaner, and use less oil on a particular brand. . For example, always used Rotella in my Cat powered semi diesels. My 5th truck was powered by Detroit Diesel 60 Series, and they recommended Mobil Delvac. Had 650,00 miles. About the 3rd oil change I decided to go back to Rotella. The engine literally sounded different, the Rotella was just better. It does matter.
Here's another interesting old-engine oil quirk- engines that use some oil will often find a "sweet spot" on the dipstick where consumption drops off, and it will stay at that level for a while, often until the next change is due. Pretty much all my "elderly" diesels would consume oil fairly quickly after an oil change, down to some point in the lower edge of the "safe" zone on the stick, and quit dropping. If I topped it off, it would drop back to that point quickly again. Learned to stop topping-off, it was a waste. Those same engines would also tell you when the oil change was needed: after being on it's sweet spot for several thousand miles, the engine would suddenly begin to use oil again. May drop a gallon a day (= to a pint in a 5 qt system) when the change was due.
BUT you have a spanking-new engine! So all this no longer applies!

 

[myfoxmystere]

Keep us posted on how the engine is doing. Most are saying adding STP to the oil is a must, as zinc levels have dropped in oils. Zinc protects a number of tappets and other metals inside the engine block.

 

[Luke64]

stp or Lucas isn’t necessary, although helpful in their own right. They sell just plain zinc additive if you want to keep your oil thinner still. I run T4 rotella in my 223 and have for 20k miles, still holds 55 pounds at any rpm.

 

[LeonBlank]

I just got word that the engine shop will be done in two or three weeks and they prime the engine with Penn Grade straight 30. We have a phone call scheduled to discuss the full break in that he suggests and I can report any findings here as well.

 

[Frank]

stp or Lucas isn’t necessary, although helpful in their own right. They sell just plain zinc additive if you want to keep your oil thinner still. I run T4 rotella in my 223 and have for 20k miles, still holds 55 pounds at any rpm.

It's interesting that Rotella is used successfully in gasoline engines- it is NOT API approved for spark ignition engines. It's D sure the best oil for diesels though- (ask me how I know.)

 

[Luke64]

It's interesting that Rotella is used successfully in gasoline engines- it is NOT API approved for spark ignition engines. It's D sure the best oil for diesels though- (ask me how I know.)

I know a lot of people that do with great success, we run it in our tractors too. Regular oil changes and a good WIX only filter. Comes out clean and clear every time. Ran it in my 7.3, ran the same jug in the 64, ran the same jug in my 29 McCormick. Lots of good minerals in it, I wouldn’t shy away from running it in any gas motor. Not sure why it wouldn’t work or why it’s different, other than the mineral content. I might not run it in a modern modern gas engine, although I run it in my 1997 2.3 also with 263k miles. Good stuff IMO

 

[Frank]

I know a lot of people that do with great success, we run it in our tractors too. Regular oil changes and a good WIX only filter. Comes out clean and clear every time. Ran it in my 7.3, ran the same jug in the 64, ran the same jug in my 29 McCormick. Lots of good minerals in it, I wouldn’t shy away from running it in any gas motor. Not sure why it wouldn’t work or why it’s different, other than the mineral content. I might not run it in a modern modern gas engine, although I run it in my 1997 2.3 also with 263k miles. Good stuff IMO

It is good oil, no doubt. Kept me rolling almost 3 million miles with 5 different trucks, all of them older and well used when purchased, all exceeded a million miles most with original bottom-end.

 

[LeonBlank]

I have decided to run Penn Grade SAE30 Break In oil for the first 200 miles or so. Then run Penn Grade SAE 15W-40 after that as recommended by my re-builder.