250 2V build

[TCSTEVE]

OK finance is organised and so is the engine builder, the engine comes out in 2 weekends.
If you guys remember i have a TC Cortina and i want to run around 250 HP N/A manual and keep the Borgy diff, would like to keep it at 2.79 for crusing but a 13 sec pass would be nice. It's still going to be a daily driver and i don't wanna go to crazy on wheels,drivetrain etc
Is there a lsd centre for my Borgy that runs 2.7 or 2.9?
I've got this so far..
want to run a 4 barrel and will probally have the 2 barrel torker manifold cut and welded to suit, hey it already fits.
Oversized valves (probally 289)
smothed inlets and manifold wondering wether it worth it?
Enlarged exhaust ports and matched to oversized tuned length pacemakers,cone welded etc 2 1/4 exhaust allready on there
Aftermarket rocker gear maybe stud guides etc - still undiceded on this
Double valve springs
shot peened standard pushrods
solid lifters or would anti pumps be better?
ACLpistons/200 rods kit can someone give me an idea on cost for the kit?
set of timing gears and chain
aftermarket bearings
ARP rod bolts and head bolts
Full engine ballance including lightened flywheel
Electronic dizzy possible XE/XF plus coil
High volume oil pump/ baffled sump
Still not sure on the holley really like the large primaries smaller seconary idea and not yet decided on the cam????

I know most of this sounds like overkill and big $$$ so any help and advice on whats not needed and any ideas on the holley and cam would be greatly appriciated!!
Long live the i6
Cheers Steve

 

[Anonymous]

With that diff the max I would go for would be no more than a 224-234 at 50 dur with 114 LSA. (it is not a mild cam)
I think youd find it was still drivable. I would be surprised if you got 250 HP from it but with that diff I wouldnt go any more duration than this. There is a dyno compair with this cam in a 350 Chev and it doesnt lose that much low rpm power to gain up high.
I would have gone for this cam myself except I was concerned about too much lift that would need to go with a cam of higher duration like this one (probably? would have been ok). Also from what Ive seen a cam of 211-221 at 50 duration works within the same rpm range (almost identical) as a 224-234 at 50 cam would in a 250. The only difference is that the hotter cam looses a bit more dow low to make more more up high in rpm.
Regards Tim

 

[TCSTEVE]

Cheers tim i'm now looking at a 220 duration cam as with the manual not having a stall ill need that low down torque, its gotta go quick just want it more for crusing and daily round town.
To many decisions probally go a hydro cam and lifters less expensive and noisey.

 

[DYNOED250]

hey steve... just a few questions, is it a pre cross flow, i seem to remember thats what u had but im not sure.

any way if its a pre crosflow 250 ive never even played with one, only ever blown them up for a bit of fun...
if u want to run 2.92 gears, an lsd center from a falcon with 2.92, 3.23's 3.5's 3.7's and even pintara 4:11's not sure if they came with lsd these are all 25 spline. you can even use the center out of an eb-au diff you have to get the two outer cones changed to 25 spline as these are 28 from factory and wont fit yore axels, the eb-au one are pretty tough as there four pinion two, and they were used behind the eb/el GT all xr6's and 8's till ford went irs in the ba. THe only problem with these is getting one as most wreckers wont sell the center seperatly, and lsd's are hard to find, i got mine out of a wrecked eb ambulance, the diff was bent cost me nothing:>
******** this is important and i have fallen for this trap, if u use 2.77's then u need a center out of a diff that had 2.77's as the center has a different ofset to allow for the fatter pinion gear. these centers are easy to get as not many people want to run 2.77's there found in fairlans from xd-xf's , you can not use 2.92's on a center that come out of a 2.77 fair lane diff, so make youre mind up on what center u want to use, id go 2.92's incase u want to change gear ratio's later on you can still use youre lsd.


in the 250's, once u start camming them up they like to go up a lil in gearing , so even a mild cam like 215 @ 0.050 and 500 lift, will perform much better all round with 2.92's then 2.7's. MY mate had a 224@ 0.050 cam in his 250 with 2.92's gears it was quick but you still had to wait for the cam to start working, as even with this size it killed a lil down low, but one the 3.5's went in there was no cam lag at all it was a totally differnt car. since youre chasing 250 hp, thats one hp per cube, im thinking you will at least want 224 duration at 0.050 mabie more, so you will have to gear it to suit.


200 hp, with a smaller cam but more low end torque will flog a 250 hp motor with up high power if there both running 2.77's to 100 km.. but put 3.5's in and the storys differnt so its really a case of deciding what u want.

* you have 2 choices, if you want 250 hp, and 13 second quaters, lots of cam big carbie, head work and 3.5 gears and sit on 3000 at 100 kmph and you might sneak a 13 in, or turbo it, with boost you get hudge amounts of tourqe and torque loves to work against gearing, so you can use 2.77's cruise at 2000 grand at 100kmph, and still run 13's



but thats just my opion its all up to u.. i went the monster cam 3.7's injection way, now that i look back i should of just boosted it, but thats boring nothing sounds better then a 6 thats camming its arse of and reving to 7000 rpm and melting the tires


the kit to run the acl pistons for the 200 rods, is about 500-650 depending who rips you of the most, i got one of these its a larry perkins race kit, comes with top notch head gasket, race series acl bearings, every gasket u will need the pistons are ultra light with a really light gudgen pin, im not sure but when we were balancing mine, im pretty sure the pistons were around 350 gram not sure on that, but the rods are a lil longer 2 so ther is more weight in them, all u need are the rods. not sure if they do a kit for the pree crossflow.

If u use 200 rods, make sure youre engine builder removes the weight on the end of the 200 rod, as some 200 rods have a very large weight on the end, this fowls on the piston, remove enough so they all clear then weigh from there. i heard about this engine builder down here who new it all and put the rods straight on then found none of them moved as the weight was hard up on the piston

 

[addo]

Do you mean precrossflow 2V? I am wondering what is the manifold you're referring to... Curious!

 

[TCSTEVE]

Yeah boys 250 2V pre crossflow. The motors coming out this coming weekend!
The manifold is a redline i think havent seen the car for a while and its got a 350 holley on top, but after reading through posts i might end up going a 2 barrel holley 500 as I think Tim said they run the right cfm and will definatly fit under the bonnet of a cortina.
Cheers for the advice Dynoed. I'll go the 2.92 gears as i think thats what my stocky has got due to being a wagon and being able to change them around later sounds good cause i'm bound to want it to go faster later on.
Does anyone know if the ACL piston/rod kit comes out for a pre crossflow I was under the impression they do one?? I going to run PULP and the higher comp and RPM power can't hurt!
Now shit has change....again.
A 200HP motor with the right gear to run NOS down the track might be a little more friendly to drive and on the pocket which leaves more money for a very nice example of a TE i can get my hands on for a drag project.
Keeping all this in mind ill talk to my engine guy again and aim for 2.92 diff and a more milder cam and the 2 barrel holley instead.
Get the car on the road again asap and get into the TE for a more serious project as the TC wagons the one going to be towing it everywhere
As its a daily driver the higher gearing and 4 barrels stuff is going to cost big and not help with fuel consuption and noise pollution at all!
Thanks Steve

 

[xctasy]

TC Steve asked:-

advice on whats not needed and any ideas on the holley and cam would be greatly appriciated!!

The best carb without hassle is the Holley 500 cfm, but Aussie7 Mains stated that timing is touchy with various Holley carbs. I think the 500 is perfect. The 350 may have issues dealing with the cam duration.

The 500 cfm carb can take you to over 175 hp really easily, and 220 is possible if its tuned right. I have seen 354 hp gross on a 500 Holley 2-bbl.

Suggestion to Steve and Tim: Use the Impco CA 300 Lpg carb snorkle used on the Dual Fuel V8 1970- 1988 carby V8's. Air cleaner issues are a pain in the butt. There is just enough space to fit that on, and have the air cleaner draped over the spark plugs where there is no engine heat. Sorry, haven't got a picture, but it solves the air cleaner space issue. Use the LPG carb, and place it on open. The Air cleaner cartridge is AF-1 or Ryco A391, but other ones fit too.

That is a good option.

Get an old fashioned air/fuel meter which measures actual air fuel ratio without the CO2 scale, and have a proffessional find the right jet sizes. I'd stick with a 4.5 power valve, some 72 jets, and make sure the fuel system is well filtered with a proper in-line filter. If you can spare it, a fuel regulator which drops the fuel pressure to 2 to 3 psi from the stock 6 to 7 psi, situated on the intake manifold and bolted to a bracket off one of two of the manifold bolts will work wonders.

 

[addo]

I want to see that manifold!

 

[Anonymous]

Execute
Why the lower pressure fuel regulator.

Steve
I can understand Addos curiosity as Ive never heard of a 250 2V Redline manifold, (a pic?)
If you want to tame it down and keep the diff the same for a while and use a 500 Holley (instead of 4 bbl) you will have to be even more careful with the cam choice on a 250 2V.
I am even a little douptful about my new cam. Should have gone a bit more LSA if I wanted to "play it safe" for better idle vacuume & low rpm as they tend to lack gas velocity at low rpm which more cam and tighter LSA make worse. There is always a perfect compromise somewhere.
Aussie7mains is the one with a lot of experience on this he said up to 220 at 50 is ok for 500 on 250 2V (to run) but didnt say how 500 would behave on it? Thats why I went less on intake duration.
All the best with your project.

 

[TCSTEVE]

OK ill check the inlet manifold this weekend. The cars been in nannas garage for 7 months now.
Cheers Tim im leaving the choice of cam till last depending on valves and head work to come ill look to keep it under 220 degree duration!!
Thanks also to execute i read a thread on your XE which i think you did a 500 swap onto the standard manifold....nice!
I'm going to go for the 500 and play with it at the dyno tune hopefully sooner than later.
Ill keep you posted on the motor and its results. Thanks boys!!

 

[Anonymous]

Electronic ignition is a good idea, but the boss in the pre x-flow is 20thou wider. That means the bottom of the distributor is not supported properly and will flog out the bush. The dizzy drives the oil pump remember. You may be able to bush the elec dizzy shaft or get the head welded onto a points shaft.
I think I've seen a post on that.
Dom

 

[addo]

Been there, done that on the diz. Two comments - the slop does not cause immediate catastrophic damage but on a built motor, it's not clever to avoid "getting it right". I installed one like this (sloppy) in a stock 200, two years ago - still 100% fine. The reshaft, recurve, rebush runs to about $275, money well spent IMO. Or you can just buy a US Duraspark and get it recurved.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but Im not sure what all this is about. With my engine rebuilt 5000 km ago approx and with a new cam I did a fairly makeshift installation of a elect dizzy to my 2V.
I did not replace the gear on bottom of dizzy with the new cam back then and expected because of that and also the there may be a (shaft size difference???) that there would be lots of wear on the cam or dizzy when I took it all out recently and replaced the cam with another new one. I could not find even a slight indication of wear on either gear??

 

[addo]

That's my point. People say "Oh, the distributor will lock up, or the gears will chew the cam", but it hasn't happened. One's about 12.6mm, the other about 13.4. So the radial slop is only 0.4mm, close to the 20 thou mentioned.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Adam,
I can see Ill still have to look at this at some point. Maybe after I attempt to re-spray the front end.
Thanks Tim

 

[64xm]

how did you end up goin with this build?

 

[xctasy]

(Tim sold the car ealier this year after becoming a daddy. Bought an AU Falcon).

 

[64xm]

damn kids

 

[TCSTEVE]

Ha ha still going. Im fed up with engine guys. The brake suspension, everything wasa a piece of piss. Gave me disscount and everything. But the engine guy has 20 motors on the go and has had mine for over a year. I go back every couple of months and a little mores been done to it but fuck me its too much. Anyway besides bitching its getting there.

Larger valves been fitted, seats done for ULP, valve shrouds and bowl done, acid bath,cam bearings done. Exhaust ports 3/4 have had some braze welding done to get the ports the same size for the porter.
Dizzy fully rebuilt and geared, new everything to be bolted to it. Pistons dished to get 9.8 comp so now the actual porting has to be done and the balance and throw it all back togther and whack the 500 on top.

Maybe before Xmas ill be burning up the streets but i aint holding my breath and neither will the engine guy for much longer.

THE NEXT MOTOR IM BUILDING MYSELF!!

 

[TCSTEVE]

Hey also whats this bout Timmy selling the Corty. My mrs can go IVF with herself before my first and second child leave me

Least the Au is nice and still inline i hope. BTW im still using that cam you sent me Tim. Cheers Steve