250 cu into a 65/66 Mustang

[250in66Stang]

Hello
I need some help as I have no expirience with Mustangs. I prefer a L6 over a V8 but want some punch in the low rev´s.
I had the chance to buy a good running stock 250 cu from a 1969 Mustang. I too had a look at a few 65/66 Mustangs but haven´t bought one till now.
As far as I found out it is making more sense to buy a V8 Mustang because for a swap the gearbox and axels of a V8 are recommended.
I like to describe how my "dream car" will look like
65/66 Mustang
250 cu engine.....maybe later with alloy head
5 speed T5 manual Gearbox
4 Piston calipers disc brakes with servo
rack and pinion steering

As described I have got the engine of a 1969 Mustang with a flywheel and clutch. It was attached to a 3 speed manual. I´m looking for a car now and I´m not sure what is the best way to go.
As you can imagine in Germany you don´t find Mustangs at every corner nor gearboxes axels et cetera. So I have to order parts from the US. To save shipping costs it would be good to know which parts I´ll need.
Now my questions:
can I go with my flywheel and clutch?
is there a T5 with the right bell / which bell do I need?
where do I buy?
is it a great hassle to convert a automatic car to a manual concerning clutch pedal?what do I have forgotten / overlooked?

The next weekend I will have a look at a 66 Automatic Mustang for restoration. It is a L6 but the axels have already been converted to V8. It is a desert car from California with no or minor rust at the usual places but brakes, engine don´t work and some parts are missing.
Any opinions ?

I know that these questions have been often asked and all the information I have got is by reading this forum. But it is a lot of information and I can´t realy decide which things are important or will be important soon.

sorry for my english Paul

 

[bmbm40]

Some Mustang experts will help you but I think you can buy the pedal assemblies for manual trans from the Mustang vendors. On my 250 transplant into my Bronco I found a Mustang manual SBF bell on ebay or something. It's very lightweight might be aluminum or something. The people at Modern Driveline can help most likely with that T5 part of your build. 250 Mustang sounds nice that is what I want next.

 

[MPGmustang]

with a 250ci i6 you can use a bellhousing/trans from a v8, just get everything 0 (zero) balanced, also the 250 can runt the AOD (Automatic Over Drive) trans. so you can keep an auto.

if you get the 250 from a 69 mustang, ask for the motor mounts as they will help in the 65-66 and they can only be used with i6 engines.

the V8 Parts are better BECAUSE, more vendors have them and are cheaper. the aftermarket for the i6 is very small and everything is hard to find. that's why it's recomended to go v8. you will spend the same price on weaker i6 parts as compared to the v8 parts.

on the other note, the stock i6 parts should be reletively cheap as everyone wants to get rid of them. so if you keep it simple (stock) then you will get your money's worth.

Good Luck in your hunt!!!

PS- ANY car with no rust is better than a running car with rust. so get the car with the least amount of rust possible, don't be affraid to "POKE" around for rust underneath the car before you buy the car.

 

[bubba22349]

Getting a V8 car saves hunting for some parts like rear axle for the front end it's probably a wash if your converting it to disks from drums as still has to come apart again. The pre 1969 6 cylinder parts are just not worth messing with for a 250 swap it's torque will destroy them in short order.

 

[250in66Stang]

luckily the 250 cu engine came with the engine mounts, pentronix, new carb, petrol pump. I think I have to lower the engine mounts. Is the alloy head narrower so that the carb still fits under the bonnet off a 65/66 model?
The car I will have a look at this weekend is a 200 cu with a C4 converted to V8 axels. So I guess the transmittion won´t fit to the 250 cu. Knowing this it would make sense directly going the T5 way.
I have received some pics of the car which states that no welding is needed but on the other hand a lot of parts are missing/ unusable.
The T5 speed gearbox seems to be affordable new, but getting all the "swap parts" might get as expensive as the gearbox itself. And I am so new to this that I might order the wrong parts or go a unnecessary difficult way. Does the T5 with the right bell fit to my clutch or do I need a different clutch /flywheel?

Paul

 

[xctasy]

Is the alloy head narrower so that the carb still fits under the bonnet off a 65/66 model?

No, its wider but will fit the 66 hood better as the carb can be mounted lower than a log headed 250. The 250 engine is 42.18 to 42.31 mm (1.663 to 1.666") taller than the 200, but the Classic Inlines manifold was designed around the confines of the 66 hoodline.

The best option for you is to find locally the 5.0/302/351 V8 C4 or C5 or the AOD automatic.

The TUV has some regulations you must get around in that the car must be substaintially stock, so starting with a factory parts is best. T5 is an easy swap too, but you need to decide what you really really want.

 

[bubba22349]

The car I will have a look at this weekend is a 200 cu with a C4 converted to V8 axels. So I guess the transmittion won´t fit to the 250 cu. Knowing this it would make sense directly going the T5 way.

That C4 can be bolted on to the 250 easy you would only need to change the bell (bolts on) it's same as a SBF 289 / 302 V8 (6 bolt bell) used from 1965 1/2 up. Also find a 250 flex plate (1969 up), and the torque convertor the V8 one will also work.

 

[bmbm40]

Did you buy the 66 yet? I want to build pretty much the same Mustang someday. Hoping the 250 fits in there well as far as height is concerned. Initially may go direct mount 2100 and thinking this will be lower than the stock Carter height, someone on here will know. I have an air cleaner from a Granada and it is low profile so it may all fit. If not then a carb hat connected to a cold air box should leave enough room. I can tell you from experience that the 250 has good low rpm torque even stock.

 

[rbohm]

8) if you decide to use an automatic in your stang with the 250, and you cant find the correct zero balance flexplate, grab a flexplate from a V8 small block that goes with your bell housing, and remove the balance weight. that will zero balance the flexplate, or get it close enough that your local machine shop can finish zero balancing the plate. same with the flywheel if you cant get one for the six, just have a V8 wheel zero balanced, machine shops do it all the time.

as for what trans to use, for a manual i recommend the T5 from a V8, for a manual get an AOD, and use a full pressure valve body from this place;

http://silverfoxtrans.com/silverfoxtran ... B_AOD.html

that way you dont need to figure out how to adjust the TV cable to work properly as it becomes just a kick down cable like used on a C4.

 

[250in66Stang]

It has been quite a long time since I have been here...... I had to buy my 66 Mustang - trailer it 600 km home - putting it to pieces - making endless lists of spares I need to get the Mustang on the road again.
The good thing is that the body is in great condition, no welding needed. There is a very thin layer of paint over the original arcadian blue, so the real condition is not hidden under thick layers of paint.
The axels have been already converted to 5 lug but trying to order spares it took quite a long time finding out that there is a cruel mix of R6 V8 manual and power steering.

And here is my question:
I want to keep my original steering gearbox which is a 16:1 powerunit and combine it with a V8 pittman arm ,center link, idler arm and inner+outer tie rod ends all V8 manual.

Will it be possible? Do the 16:1 and 19:1 gearboxes have different gears or does only the length of the pitman arm make the difference?

It would be nice if someone can help Paul

 

[bubba22349]

Will it be possible? Do the 16:1 and 19:1 gearboxes have different gears or does only the length of the pitman arm make the difference?

Maybe but you will need to find out the V8 steering Pittman arm spline ID measurements and compare that to your 6'es Pit. arm. I do have a 64 V8 Falcon Sprint steering box with arm in my parts collection that could measure. To my knowledge both arms were the same length though when ever I swapped them out would only use all the V8 items together. There was aftermarket Shelby parts that used a different length used with another idler arm this was called a quick steer kit. The 16.1 and 19.1 boxes used different gears inside. Good luck

 

[250in66Stang]

The build in pittman arm is only bend to ONE side ( around the corner) not as the V8, which is bent to the height too ( sorry for that description). I can´t measure it as the steering gearbox is still build in because I need to move the car.
It would be a pity needing a new gearbox as I intend to convert to a rack and pinion steering. But to get the Mustang registered in Germany it has to be in stock condition- well it makes it much easier!

Paul

 

[MustangSix]

All the 65-66 steering boxes are the same externally except for internal gearing for the standard box, GT, and Power Steering box. The GT and the PS box have the same 16:1 gearing, but differ in the bearing preload setup. If you use a PS box, it is essentially the same as a GT box.

They will have the smaller 1" (25.4mm) pitman arm shaft and a long, single-piece steering shaft. They are interchangeable and the V8 pitman arm will bolt to any of them.

To convert to V8 linkage you will also need the drag link, idler arm, and tie rod assemblies.

 

[MPGmustang]

man, you're doing what I should have done...

on the steering, look at costs before you shoot, a manual rack and pinion is a cheap bonus about $800 and much more precise, if modifying the original steering it might be cheaper in the long run to go R&P... I know I want to after replacing ALL of my stock steering components. the stock setup will ALWAYS have 1-2 inches of steering play, where as R&P don't have any play. but the down side would be the tighter turning radius, R&P are notorius for lowering how tight you can turn (not as far as stock) but when crusing and driving reguarly there is none better and no difference, only while parking.

the engine and trans, with my 200 I went t5, sure it's great and I love the OD but for my DD it sucks in traffic. so make sure you know what you want your car for. if you do see yourself driving to work reguarly, I HIGHLY recomend going AOD with a nice shift kit.

other ideas would be on my future dream build... viewtopic.php?f=11&t=57006

 

[chad]

"...But to get the Mustang registered in Germany it has to be in stock condition- well it makes it much easier!..."

! they'll never know.
I take a 4o yr old bronk to the inspection station (& it's an american in america!) and it's supposed to have everything that came from the factory on it. It don't (marker lghts, back up lghts, rear views out side, etc, etc) & always passes.
Whadda day know in Germany!?! eh?

 

[xctasy]

"...But to get the Mustang registered in Germany it has to be in stock condition- well it makes it much easier!..."

! they'll never know.
I take a 4o yr old bronk to the inspection station (& it's an american in america!) and it's supposed to have everything that came from the factory on it. It don't (marker lghts, back up lghts, rear views out side, etc, etc) & always passes.
Whadda day know in Germany!?! eh?

LOL!

TUV is typically German, and even a patriotic German is no fool when it comes to what should be on a T5. They'll know. And a trying to bribe one by offering one a mini Munich BeerFest won't work either.But its all good. The TUV gives me a new set of BMW 528i TRX tires each year, because the Germans have to have a new date code every TUV inspection. Almost like a Colorado or Cali Smog certifiyer, they are like Andy's Toy's...they see everything!

 

[bubba22349]

That's for sure went through a inspection there once to get my L. Plates the inspector checked over the whole car and showed me everything he wanted fixed.

 

[chad]

everything he wanted fixed

how could he know - duz he have a book/'puter listing every yr/make/model world wide to compare to what's before him in the moment of the inspection? (may B he duz?).

 

[xctasy]

Its easier than that. If its been touched, it requires proof positive that its original. If its been shifted or moved, then the TUV inspector tends to push back on the owner to prove originality. It's not impossible, just requires a respect for the D(ue) Process. David Vizard used to modify Leyland Minis, and in order to get German compliance, he'd suggest to the customer that they use only stock parts that look stock, but they had to be modified only internally. Each nut, bolt, washer, plastic clip or hose. Any outside visable change was Verboten

TUV are such zealots like that for the sake of safety, they blacklisted four wheel steering Mazda 626/MX5's in the 80's , wouldn't give approval for items on the Mustang which car makers would use in the US. So a German T5 Mustang was quite different to the US one. And yes, the TUV have approval books for every car, they will have a nice manual for a T5, and if mod is not on the list, it must be completely stock. You see lots of private left hand drive imports, but they have to be stock.

 

[chad]

"...makes it much easier!."

OK, I'm convinced.
I saw a mag put out by Easy Rider - "Rat Rodz" I think is the name. w/pic of those vehicles on the autobahn. They were able to get those rigs registered in Germany, but complained how difficult it was.

Why a 250 anyway? They don't rev like the 200 do they?