All Small Six Continuing the journey - T5 Upgrade

[powerband]

two types of universals used on the Toploader splined output yoke., early 2.77 and some 3.03' tranny small rear axle cars used the ( Spicer ) 1100 series universals and virtually all later regular Fords use 1300 series U's. Adapters for different snap ring type 1300's available but NO ADAPTER available for early 1100 rear axle yoke to later 1300 U's Driveshafts. ( inserts for the universals to adapt have been fabricated. )
.
'63/170/T5 with fairly rare 1100 Universal Toploader yoke on T5 and OEM DS and rear axle
. .
.
have fun
.

 

[drag-200stang]

I could be wrong, but I think that your bellhousing and trans. were changed to the 67 bell and 303, maybe before you got it. It was a common thing to do.
If you think that the 303 is heavy, try the Ford ''NASCAR'' four speed the tail housing is all cast iron instead of aluminum and the input is 1-3/8'' and output is larger also. The one in my avatar is heaver yet at 150 pounds. No one wants the weight but, sometimes you have to do it for drive ability and the reliability.

 

[awasson]

I could be wrong, but I think that your bellhousing and trans. were changed to the 67 bell and 303, maybe before you got it. It was a common thing to do.
If you think that the 303 is heavy, try the Ford ''NASCAR'' four speed the tail housing is all cast iron instead of aluminum and the input is 1-3/8'' and output is larger also. The one in my avatar is heaver yet at 150 pounds. No one wants the weight but, sometimes you have to do it for drive ability and the reliability.

It came with it according to the door tag. Oh, and this car was entirely stock, down to the am radio, auto lite 1100, LOM and chromed sprint 200 air cleaner, when I got it. That’s one of the key reasons I looked for a six in the first place. I know from experience that if it was a V8 car, it would have been completely trashed by now but a six might be overlooked by rat racers and hooligans.

From what I’ve heard from other Sprint and 66 owners, it’s a mixed bag of what you’ll get in a dual pattern block Mustang.

 

[awasson]

Oh, hey… I checked and the OEM Slip Yoke on my drive shaft is the same teeth as the T5. I already swapped mine over but I may need to swap it back because it is several inches shorter than the OEM slip yoke.

With this in mind, in essence for someone with a 66 Mustang, inline 6 200, with a 3.03 Top Loader, the only parts that they really need to buy or fabricate are the adapter plate for the bell housing and I think the transmission is deeper at the cross member, mounting point so they will in all likelihood need the upgrade cross member.

They will need the appropriate pilot bearing too but they could used the OEM 3-finger clutch and leave everything else alone. I’ve done plenty of engine transmission swaps and this is by far the simplest one (now that I know the ropes).

Still waiting on the correct part from CPC.

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[awasson]

Just got this notification

Estimated delivery
Tomorrow, June 17 between 11:00 A.M. - 1:00 P.M.

That'll be at my US P/O Box so I still have to head down and get it but that's just a 2 hour trip, there and back.

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[awasson]

Just got this notification

Estimated delivery
Tomorrow, June 17 between 11:00 A.M. - 1:00 P.M.

That'll be at my US P/O Box so I still have to head down and get it but that's just a 2 hour trip, there and back.

Cheers,
Andrew

Sure enough, I went down and picked up the Toploader bell housing to T5 adapter on Tuesday. It took an hour to get there and an hour and 20 to get back. All going well, I’ll get the T5 installed tomorrow.




Adapter, installed and lock tighted in place. Beveled bolts on the left side and bolted from the inside on the right.

 

[awasson]

Oh, and as luck would have it, we’ve had a stretch of really nice weather for the last 2 weeks, while I’ve been waiting. It rained when I was under the car getting the plate lined up. It’s supposed to be clear tomorrow and then we get rain on Friday and over the weekend then it’s off/on for the next 2 weeks… of course.

 

[awasson]

Well, it was sunny today and it’s going to rain for the next few days so I did some unavoidable work on my day job stuff and in the afternoon I started the T5 install.

I would have paid a lot of money for a hoist and a transmission jack today. I have wheel ramps, axle stands, a floor jack, a motorcycle jack and ratchet straps. Oh, I also have and used the bell housing from the Fox Body the transmission came from. It took 2 hours to meticulously raise and balance the transmission and lower the rear of the engine so that it was aligned about as good as it gets. 15 more minutes and I had the input shaft into the throwout bearing and snugged up the 5 mounting bolts.

Then I hooked up the clutch pedal and gave it a couple of presses on the clutch pedal. To my surprise, it slid right in and the transmission was flush with the adapter plate on the bell housing. At about this point, I’d been on the job for about 2-1/2 to 3 hours.

So nobody talks about getting the shifter housing through the square hole in the transmission tunnel into the passenger compartment. My T5 did not come with a factory shifter so I bought an Amazon unit. It’s fine. I would have been happy with the OEM shifter but this is fine and it’s adjustable but it’s like a conning tower on a submarine and took come cutting of the trans tunnel to allow it to fit into the car and I sure as heck wasn’t going to drop the transmission to do so. Add a good hour of futzing around with a dremel reciprocating saw to make that happen and the tunnel is solid. That’s some heavy steel.



After that was in, I installed the conversion crossmember, I plugged in the speed cable, made a harness for the reverse light and installed the drive shaft. Then I checked all of the bolts and fasteners one more time. I had loosened the motor mounts so I retorqued them too. Everything is solid and fits perfectly.

The diaphragm pressure plate engages much later than the 3 finger pressure plate so I adjusted the linkage about 1/4” longer. It works but I’m going to extend it another 1/4” or more if I can. Other than that, this is AWESOME!

I took it for a shakedown around the neighborhood and it’s like a new car. Wow! I can’t believe how smooth the clutch is and since I’m using the 4-cylinder T5, it’s geared super low. It’s like a Ferrari gear box compared to the 3-speed I replaced. Now, I think I need to make it rev like a Ferrari. Before you know it, you’re at the top of first gear at 4,000 RPM and you shift into second. 2nd on the 5-speed is like 1st in the old 3-speed. 4th on the 5-speed is like 3rd on the old transmission, except it’s so much tighter and quieter.

After the shakedown, I took a more involved 20 mile shakedown. I stopped 3 or 4 times along the way to check and double check things. After my neighborhood shake down I had to cut and repair my fuel line to the input of the fuel pump because it had a split so I was checking that while I was on my longer run. 2nd gear is good for driving in slow traffic areas (15 mph zones). 3rd gear is awesome for going through twisty mountain, residential roads that are rated for 30 mph.

Also, my Speedo is reading better with the T5. I have a GPS app and 30 MPH reads 35 or so. My Speedo gear is the white one. I may get a yellow if it’s even more accurate. On the highway, doing 60 MPH, I’m in 5th pulling about 2,000 RPM. At 80 MPH, I’m somewhere just under 2,500 RPM. It’s pretty much exactly what I had hoped for and so darn smooth!

Anyhow, that was about 6 hours to install the transmission, modify the trans tunnel, reinstall the drive shaft, set up the clutch and make up a wiring harness for the reverse light. I’m exhausted but so happy with the results. It’s awesome!

 

[Josh63Falcon]

Sounds like a great day wrenching!
Congratulations.

 

[bmbm40]

Sounds like a great day wrenching!
Congratulations.

Well, it was sunny today and it’s going to rain for the next few days so I did some unavoidable work on my day job stuff and in the afternoon I started the T5 install.

I would have paid a lot of money for a hoist and a transmission jack today. I have wheel ramps, axle stands, a floor jack, a motorcycle jack and ratchet straps. Oh, I also have and used the bell housing from the Fox Body the transmission came from. It took 2 hours to meticulously raise and balance the transmission and lower the rear of the engine so that it was aligned about as good as it gets. 15 more minutes and I had the input shaft into the throwout bearing and snugged up the 5 mounting bolts.

Then I hooked up the clutch pedal and gave it a couple of presses on the clutch pedal. To my surprise, it slid right in and the transmission was flush with the adapter plate on the bell housing. At about this point, I’d been on the job for about 2-1/2 to 3 hours.

So nobody talks about getting the shifter housing through the square hole in the transmission tunnel into the passenger compartment. My T5 did not come with a factory shifter so I bought an Amazon unit. It’s fine. I would have been happy with the OEM shifter but this is fine and it’s adjustable but it’s like a conning tower on a submarine and took come cutting of the trans tunnel to allow it to fit into the car and I sure as heck wasn’t going to drop the transmission to do so. Add a good hour of futzing around with a dremel reciprocating saw to make that happen and the tunnel is solid. That’s some heavy steel.

View attachment 26333

After that was in, I installed the conversion crossmember, I plugged in the speed cable, made a harness for the reverse light and installed the drive shaft. Then I checked all of the bolts and fasteners one more time. I had loosened the motor mounts so I retorqued them too. Everything is solid and fits perfectly.

The diaphragm pressure plate engages much later than the 3 finger pressure plate so I adjusted the linkage about 1/4” longer. It works but I’m going to extend it another 1/4” or more if I can. Other than that, this is AWESOME!

I took it for a shakedown around the neighborhood and it’s like a new car. Wow! I can’t believe how smooth the clutch is and since I’m using the 4-cylinder T5, it’s geared super low. It’s like a Ferrari gear box compared to the 3-speed I replaced. Now, I think I need to make it rev like a Ferrari. Before you know it, you’re at the top of first gear at 4,000 RPM and you shift into second. 2nd on the 5-speed is like 1st in the old 3-speed. 4th on the 5-speed is like 3rd on the old transmission, except it’s so much tighter and quieter.

After the shakedown, I took a more involved 20 mile shakedown. I stopped 3 or 4 times along the way to check and double check things. After my neighborhood shake down I had to cut and repair my fuel line to the input of the fuel pump because it had a split so I was checking that while I was on my longer run. 2nd gear is good for driving in slow traffic areas (15 mph zones). 3rd gear is awesome for going through twisty mountain, residential roads that are rated for 30 mph.

Also, my Speedo is reading better with the T5. I have a GPS app and 30 MPH reads 35 or so. My Speedo gear is the white one. I may get a yellow if it’s even more accurate. On the highway, doing 60 MPH, I’m in 5th pulling about 2,000 RPM. At 80 MPH, I’m somewhere just under 2,500 RPM. It’s pretty much exactly what I had hoped for and so darn smooth!

Anyhow, that was about 6 hours to install the transmission, modify the trans tunnel, reinstall the drive shaft, set up the clutch and make up a wiring harness for the reverse light. I’m exhausted but so happy with the results. It’s awesome!

I have sure enjoyed reading about your T5 conversion and how it changes the driving experience. The T5 is perfect for the six cylinder Mustangs. The close ratio 1-4 always provides the correct gear for every situation and the OD fifth gives comfortable capable cruising at interstate speeds.

 

[awasson]

I did a couple of videos of the install and one this morning doing a cold start and warm up.

View media item 322
View media item 320
View media item 321

I managed to get a drive into the dentist first thing this morning and then there was a traffic backup at the bridge that gets to my house so I had to take the long way home which gave me the excuse to experience all kinds of traffic from dead stop, to highly congested but fairly quick to hitting the highway for about 10 miles or so. All in all, I probably put another 30 or 40 miles on and it just reinforces what a killer upgrade that transmission makes. Every gear keeps you in the power sweet spot and it feels like you’ve got way more power than the 3-speed allowed for. Highway speed was about 60-70 mph and a lot of elevation changes. Fourth gear just seemed like the right gear to be in and it wasn’t until I crested the last rolling hill, when I dropped it into 5th and just cruised at around 70 mph.

 

[fritschn]

Hey Andrew,

thanks so much for your detailed report – I really enjoyed reading it, especially since we’re working from the same starting point. I’m still running the 2.77 transmission for now, but luckily I have the same bellhousing as you at home.

Thanks again a thousand times for your support! I’ve already ordered part of the needed items from RockAuto, and as I mentioned, I’ll get the rest from MDL. Now I just hope my transmission finally arrives in the next few months.

Cheers
Chris

 

[awasson]

Hey Andrew,

thanks so much for your detailed report – I really enjoyed reading it, especially since we’re working from the same starting point. I’m still running the 2.77 transmission for now, but luckily I have the same bellhousing as you at home.

Thanks again a thousand times for your support! I’ve already ordered part of the needed items from RockAuto, and as I mentioned, I’ll get the rest from MDL. Now I just hope my transmission finally arrives in the next few months.

Cheers
Chris

Hey Chris,
You are going to love the upgrade from 3-speed to 5-speed! What a monumental change it makes to the stopping and going.

I've been going for extended drives for the past 3 days since I installed it and it's a different/better car. The amount of pedal control you have is a massive improvement over the 3 speed because you can always be in the powerband sweet spot and the bonus is that you are also in the engine braking sweet spot as well. Brakes and suspension are next up on my list of improvements but my concerns about braking are less dire now than they were with the 3-speed.

It's quick too. There's a very short entry to the highway that I use and the traffic comes over a rise and down to the entrance that I would merge on to so there's not a lot of runway to get to speed but the T5 (mine is from the 4 cylinder) is geared low enough to be at the top of third gear and shifting into 4th by the time I've merged and I'm at highway speed by that time. I'll have to do a zero to 60 test to see how quick it actually is.

All good fun and highly recommended.

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[bmbm40]

Hey Chris,
You are going to love the upgrade from 3-speed to 5-speed! What a monumental change it makes to the stopping and going.

I've been going for extended drives for the past 3 days since I installed it and it's a different/better car. The amount of pedal control you have is a massive improvement over the 3 speed because you can always be in the powerband sweet spot and the bonus is that you are also in the engine braking sweet spot as well. Brakes and suspension are next up on my list of improvements but my concerns about braking are less dire now than they were with the 3-speed.

It's quick too. There's a very short entry to the highway that I use and the traffic comes over a rise and down to the entrance that I would merge on to so there's not a lot of runway to get to speed but the T5 (mine is from the 4 cylinder) is geared low enough to be at the top of third gear and shifting into 4th by the time I've merged and I'm at highway speed by that time. I'll have to do a zero to 60 test to see how quick it actually is.

All good fun and highly recommended.

Cheers,
Andrew

My 5 spd trans (T5) and vehicle is different than yours but noticed similar results. Suddenly more fun to drive on the roads with speed limits at 25-50 ish with that 1-4 close(r) ratio gears even in my Bronco felt like a sports car. Almost, sort of. And then with od fifth I looked forward to highway/freeway trips instead of grinding along at 55 with the old 3 spd. Probably the first thing I would get going if I had a Mustang.
But I noticed you mentioned suspension so see attached in case I have not already sent to you.

 

[awasson]

My 5 spd trans (T5) and vehicle is different than yours but noticed similar results. Suddenly more fun to drive on the roads with speed limits at 25-50 ish with that 1-4 close(r) ratio gears even in my Bronco felt like a sports car. Almost, sort of. And then with od fifth I looked forward to highway/freeway trips instead of grinding along at 55 with the old 3 spd. Probably the first thing I would get going if I had a Mustang.
But I noticed you mentioned suspension so see attached in case I have not already sent to you.

Thank you for that doc from Bubba, it's very much along the lines of what I want to achieve on mine and this will make a great roadmap to follow. I'm not sure that I'll go with V8 spindles or Aftermarket Granada spec Big Bearing Spindle with the corrected Geometry for use on the 1965 and 1966 Mustangs.

I think first, I will tackle the Rollerized Idler Arm (manual steering), the Roller Spring Shock Mounts and Shelby / Arning Drop + sway bars. Then I'll consider what to do about the spindles and brakes. If I go 5-lug front, I'll want to get a bigger differential and go 5-lug rear. That might need to wait until next year unless I can find some great deals.

* There is someone fairly local who has spindles and control arms for a V8 66 Mustang so I may look into what I'd need to convert the front end to V8 components. Not sure what I'll do yet but suspension and brakes are on my agenda before I tackle anything like boosting the engine for more HP.