All Small Six Continuing the journey - T5 Upgrade

[rickwrench]

No driveshaft shortening required? Hmm.
Aluminum driveshaft is quite a bit larger in diameter that the stock shaft. I had a few issues using an aluminum police/crown-vic shaft. The much larger diameter aluminum shaft cuts into the upward range/travel of the rear suspension. New leafs and a big rubber dif bumper fixed it.
"Crossover" U-joints are available for most sizes. I used a 1330x1310 with the aluminum shaft. If you need to adapt an 1100 series u-joint you'll be better off getting the driveshaft modified.
That said, I originally had some adapter cups made that created a 1100 x 1310 joint (Mav 8").
Watch your driveline angles, too.
Pic: S10 shifter location on my Squire. I'm tall, and the (custom) seats have extra travel and are all the way back in this shot.
Console is relocated back a couple inches, too.

 

[awasson]

Yes, from all of the info I've been gathering on YouTube and other media, I understand that with the Early Mustang to Fox Body (1983-1992) T5 upgrade, the drive shaft is at a nearly perfect length, within a 3/4" or 5/8" margin of error. In the video I embedded a few posts back, the author is a transmission rebuilder and he measured the drive shaft length to be certain and was satisfied that there was enough travel of the slip joint to account for suspension travel and the yoke would neither slip out or bottom out.

 

[awasson]

I've read that some of the mustang guys who went with the Explorer driveshaft had issues with their exhaust being too close to the larger diameter drive shaft. I've got single 2-1/4" from a Y-pipe on the header for now. I intend to put an X on my header and run duals but not until I have the drivetrain buttoned up.

 

[funkaholik]

Watching this because this will be my next upgrade.

@awasson Everything I've read from the knowledgable folks here is that a Y into single exhaust is best for torque, and a dual setup is just for looks/sound.

I'm curious where you got your 4-cylinder T-5. Did you find it used, known good, have it rebuilt, or...? I like the deeper gears and lower overdrive compared to the V8 version. I feel like using the V8 trans will necessitate me swapping rear gears from my stock 3.20, whereas this trans provides quicker acceleration in 1st and 2nd and a decent overdrive on the freeway.

 

[427John]

Watching this because this will be my next upgrade.

@awasson Everything I've read from the knowledgable folks here is that a Y into single exhaust is best for torque, and a dual setup is just for looks/sound.

I'm curious where you got your 4-cylinder T-5. Did you find it used, known good, have it rebuilt, or...? I like the deeper gears and lower overdrive compared to the V8 version. I feel like using the V8 trans will necessitate me swapping rear gears from my stock 3.20, whereas this trans provides quicker acceleration in 1st and 2nd and a decent overdrive on the freeway.

The swap I did years ago was using a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe T-5, a 5 lug swap with Granada front disc swap and a 2.80 geared 8 inch, the T-5 gear ratios worked great with 200 and the 2.80 gears, the low first gear gave plenty of acceleration and the OD with 2.80 gears allowed effortless 75 mph cruise.

 

[awasson]

Watching this because this will be my next upgrade.

@awasson Everything I've read from the knowledgable folks here is that a Y into single exhaust is best for torque, and a dual setup is just for looks/sound.

I'm curious where you got your 4-cylinder T-5. Did you find it used, known good, have it rebuilt, or...? I like the deeper gears and lower overdrive compared to the V8 version. I feel like using the V8 trans will necessitate me swapping rear gears from my stock 3.20, whereas this trans provides quicker acceleration in 1st and 2nd and a decent overdrive on the freeway.

I picked up the transmission used, from a guy who did a V8 Swap in a 92 Mustang. He said the engine and the transmission were fine when he removed them but you never know until you know. It looks to me like it has been opened up at some point as it has orange silicone on the shifter housing and it has orange silicone on the speedo mount. It also looks like it has newer black RTV on the mounting plate at the input shaft and at the tail shaft junction.

Everything feels good and the Shifter Bushing has been replaced with a new one but I'm going to pull the top and have a look just to be sure. The 4 cylinder T5 is not as pricey as the V8 but even so, I managed to get a ridiculous deal. He was selling the engine and transmission for $150 so he sold me the transmission for $75. I was happy to drive the 100 miles to get it last winter. I've been holding onto it for a year because I had to rebuild the engine first.

I've put about 500 miles on the car with the 3-speed. I think the T5 will be a life altering improvement.

 

[bmbm40]

I picked up the transmission used, from a guy who did a V8 Swap in a 92 Mustang. He said the engine and the transmission were fine when he removed them but you never know until you know. It looks to me like it has been opened up at some point as it has orange silicone on the shifter housing and it has orange silicone on the speedo mount. It also looks like it has newer black RTV on the mounting plate at the input shaft and at the tail shaft junction.

Everything feels good and the Shifter Bushing has been replaced with a new one but I'm going to pull the top and have a look just to be sure. The 4 cylinder T5 is not as pricey as the V8 but even so, I managed to get a ridiculous deal. He was selling the engine and transmission for $150 so he sold me the transmission for $75. I was happy to drive the 100 miles to get it last winter. I've been holding onto it for a year because I had to rebuild the engine first.

I've put about 500 miles on the car with the 3-speed. I think the T5 will be a life altering improvement.

"life altering improvement" good way to put it! I agree. 5 speed w/od completely improved my Bronco driving experience.

 

[powerband]

T5 upgrade adds a gear for every situation and lower RPM OD interstate cruise within the torquey' small block six's powerband .
.
have fun
.

.

 

[427John]

After I did the swap, the friend I did it for said thats how the car should have been built in the first place, he felt it was perfect and it make a couple of coast to coast trips.

 

[DON]

back in the day, I went coast to coast in my 200 convertible 67 mustang, auto. No air. Only thing that happened was had to replace the exhaust doughnut between manifold and pipe. I guess early 80’s

 

[awasson]

Finally, Spring is here up on the west coast of Canada and I’m making some progress.

It’s actually been here for a couple of weeks but I had too many obligations on the weekends and every night after work when I had time, it’s been raining. My heated, insulated workshop is out back and not accessible to the car and it really only has room for my motorcycles so my mustang lives on the driveway, usually under a storm proof car cover.

here are a few photos of progress. Starting with my engine and transmission swapping workplace.




Followed by the transmission, throwout bearing and old cross member in the background and my new California Pony Cars conversion cross member in the foreground.



And here is the T5. I’ve pressure washed it using Super Clean in the purple bottle, brake cleaner, a rotating wire wheel and then painted the worst parts with Tremclad Aluminum Silver paint.



I driveshaft is out and I’ll swap the new yoke on tomorrow. I checked the size and the yoke looks like it will be a perfect fit.

I used a motorcycle shop jack that I positioned under the transmission rolling it under from the front with some plywood and 2x4’s to support the transmission. I rolled the transmission back on the Jack and then lower it as I rolled it. It couldn’t have been a smoother operation and way better than when I originally did the engine and transmission.

I put the new cross member in place so I could use the parking brake in the meantime. The reviews about the California Pony Cars T5 kit mention that the cross member does not fit perfectly and requires some drilling. In my case, it was just slightly out and I just opened up the holes with a stepped uni-bit one step larger. Really easy so far.

Tomorrow I’ll remove the bell housing and have the flywheel turned. I haven’t looked to see how well the adapter fits between the bell housing and the T5. Hopefully it won’t require any fine tuning.

I’ll update tomorrow if all goes well.

 

[drag-200stang]

Please be careful when working under a car like that, and do not do it alone. Trust me, things can unexpectedly go wrong.

 

[awasson]

Please be careful when working under a car like that, and do not do it alone. Trust me, things can unexpectedly go wrong.

I absolutely will be careful and thanks for the concern. I’ve got the parking brake engaged and wheel chocks on the back with some preload on them to make sure they don’t slip out of the way.

 

[powerband]

... not from your pic's , but don't assume ground or even hot blacktop to be stable under the jack or safety stands. Had' jack pushed down thru hot blacktop instead of lift the car up.
. .
note plywood under stands to spread weight on btop'.
.
have fun

 

[awasson]

... not from your pic's , but don't assume ground or even hot blacktop to be stable under the jack or safety stands. Had' jack pushed down thru hot blacktop instead of lift the car up.
. .
note plywood under stands to spread weight on btop'.
.
have fun

My days of dangerous living are hopefully behind me. I've got 6" of reinforced concrete slab under the wheel ramps and the ramps have tie bars on them. the engine has two 1000lb strap holding up the back end under the pan.

All that said... I think I'll put a couple of locking jack stands under the suspension just in case. I promised an ex mechanic friend that I wouldn't get myself flattend on my driveway. He and I shared an apartment when he was getting his licensing and got up to all kinds of trouble together but he lost two friends to driveway mechanic accidents and one was a school auto shop teacher.

the weather is horrible today. It's raining cats and dogs and everything is slower in the rain. I spent an hour and a half re-supporting the engine, removing the starter (battery disconnected) and removing the bell housing. I have to grab my impact to get the pressure plate and flywheel off so I'm taking a coffee break with the hopes the rain lightens up. As soon as I committed to getting under the car, the sky opened up and it just poured.

 

[awasson]

Aaaaaand, I’m stalled out.

Two things are stopping me from completing my mission.

1) First thing was that by the time I got the flywheel off the engine, it was too late to get it to the shop in time to have it surfaced. They closed at 2pm on Saturdays and that’s about when I had the flywheel off. No big deal, I can have it done on Monday.

The flywheel is pretty good, there is very little difference if any between the clutch surface and the surface outside of the clutch engagement. I could probably probably just run it as is but I don’t want to chance it. There is some glazing and it’ll be like new with a small lick on the grinder.

2) Mine is a 66 Ford 200 with the dual bolt block and it seems I have the larger Bell Housing (C7ZA-6394-A) that was more common on 67 and newer Mustangs. I didn’t know that until yesterday. So… I’ve reached out to California Pony Cars to find out which adapter I need and how to go about swapping. They were closed. I think I found the right one on their site and the kit actually costs less than the one I bought so hopefully I can just get it swapped over and not get dinged too hard for shipping.

On the bright side, the slip yoke swapped over very easily and my U-Joints are still like new. I have spares of course. I took the opportunity to refresh the grease in the u-joints. They both have grease nipples so they’ve been swapped out at some point.

On that note, I noticed a slight dent in the drive shaft near the differential end so I will keep my eyes open for a replacement driveshaft and see if I can find an aluminum one from a Ford Explorer. It is 50” from center to center of the u-joint fittings. I think it requires a crossover u-joint at the diff when you do that but I might look at putting in an Explorer rear end as well since the existing one has some slop to it and from what I’ve read, the original 6 cylinder differentials are hard to get parts for.

The updated plan will be to have the flywheel surfaced, install the clutch and pressure plate. Install it back on the car with the bell housing, adjust the clutch for the correct throw on the throwout bearing lever and then wait for the new adapter plate to arrive so that I can put the whole shooting match back together and get back on the road.

Photos:



The throwout bearing on the left came with the 1978 Fairlane clutch and uses a different throwout bearing lever. The one on the right is the new one I bought from Rock Auto for the 1966 Ford 200. It will do just fine, I think.



There’s the new diaphragm type pressure plate. On the flywheel. I think that’ll give a smoother engagement over the 3 finger original. I guess I’ll know soon enough.



The adapter plate and the bell housing, showing the disparity in size and placement of mounting points.

 

[powerband]

T5 to SBF 'Toploader' adapter to C7ZA BH :
,
I needed to modify the T5 adapter to fit the C7ZA BH. Adapter is made for SBF Toploader BH apps' but not specifically for the C7ZA six BH.
.
The lower right plate adapter-to-BH bolt did not work out as it winds up in a part of the casting @ 3/16" thick. I relocated slightly up and drilled through the thicker "outline" area of the BH, tapped alum adapter plate and bolted through inside of the BH to the plate. (3/8").
.

have fun
.
.

 

[drag-200stang]

If you find you still have an imbalance, it is a lot of work but if you rotate the pressure plate 120 degrees at a time, or whatever the bolt pattern allows sometimes you can make it smoother.

 

[powerband]

"The adapter plate and the bell housing, showing the disparity in size and placement of mounting points."
.
on the CPC site looks like matches the adapter for early 4spds'

"For models w/ 9” clutch non-syncro, fits Dagenham bellhousing casting #C60A-6394-C to a 1983-1993 T-5 Mustang Transmission with no modifications required (bolt on).
NOTE: For 1967 and later 200ci inline 6cyl T-5 conversion using bell housing with casting # C7ZA-6394-A you must use P/N TRA-650-526 adapter plate. "
.

Search: 18 results found for "t5 adapter"

California Pony Cars T-5 Conversions since 1982 CPC is your trustworthy manufacturer and supplier of Made in USA reproduction & automotive part...

calponycars.com

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the Dagenham used the early small bolt pattern on the block
Dagee' 4spd and 'Peanut' 3spds

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here's what I used on the C7ZA with slight mod mentioned in previous post:
,


.

 

[awasson]

"The adapter plate and the bell housing, showing the disparity in size and placement of mounting points."
.
on the CPC site looks like matches the adapter for early 4spds'

"For models w/ 9” clutch non-syncro, fits Dagenham bellhousing casting #C60A-6394-C to a 1983-1993 T-5 Mustang Transmission with no modifications required (bolt on).
NOTE: For 1967 and later 200ci inline 6cyl T-5 conversion using bell housing with casting # C7ZA-6394-A you must use P/N TRA-650-526 adapter plate. "
.

Search: 18 results found for "t5 adapter"

California Pony Cars T-5 Conversions since 1982 CPC is your trustworthy manufacturer and supplier of Made in USA reproduction & automotive part...

calponycars.com

.
the Dagenham used the early small bolt pattern on the block
Dagee' 4spd and 'Peanut' 3spds

.

here's what I used on the C7ZA with slight mod mentioned in previous post:
,


.

It looks to me like the one in the 65/66 kit for 6 bolt bell housing will work. https://calponycars.com/products/1965-1966-t-5-5-speed-conversion-kit-1?_pos=10&_sid=e45064414&_ss=r

It appears that they bolt it the drivers side of the bell housing from the outside and the passenger side from the inside of the bell housing for some reason.

Got the old input pilot bushing out. It was in rough shape. It had a couple of mm of play around the shaft and was no doubt part of the noise and vibration problems I was experiencing. I installed the new pilot bearing in its place. Everything went like clockwork.